"As far as overrated American luthiers, I have two for the list.
Jose Oribe and Thomas Humphrey
'John Dowland"
Overrated or overpriced ... these are both very subjective questions. To say
Jose Oribe is overrated ... in what way? His materials and workmanship are
second to none. Ask Richard Brune, or any number of luthiers. I think Jose
Ramirez even remarked on Oribe's work, in some of his writings. His prices are
out of line, too much? The (guitar) market place sets the price. If they were
too costly, no one would buy them. Right? So, to say Oribe is over priced is a
falsehood. He has built over 1600 instruments, since 1962. If they were, and
still are, overpriced, he would have a shop full of wood or guitars ... buy now
PLEASE! This is not the case. He sells instruments all the time, has a
beautiful shop and home in northern San Diego County. It show the fruits of his
and his wife's labor. Need I tell you the price of property in that area of
California? So, to say his instruments are over price is incorrect. Because the
PROOF is in the pudding, look at his life style, and the many people, from all
over the world, who buy Oribes. Go to his website, read the Oribe testimonials.
If you don't like the way an Oribe looks, plays or sounds, that's YOUR
"subjective opinion." But, again, the market place determines the price. So,
as I stated, "The Proof Is In The Pudding." It's like a Hasselblad camera.
Until you've owned one, it's hard to justify it's price. Now, I've been in and
out of this NG for a lot of years. Met many many people, some face to face.
I've often wondered who 'John Dowland' is or really is. You all know Paul
McGuffin, my opinions, some have meet me in person. And God knows I am
opinionated! And, about many things. But, one thing for sure, I, David Schramm,
MO and a few others, in this NG, always put their John Handcock after their
opinions. Get my drift? 'John Dowland'
Paul McGuffin
Dear Paul,
"As far as overrated American luthiers, I have two for the list.
Jose Oribe and Thomas Humphrey."
'John Dowland"
For clarification, the original question pertained to instruments that are
overrated, not overpriced. Yes, they are both subjective questions inasmuch as
a personal opinion would be needed to justify a response, but the subjectivity
should be halved, as only one question is germane to the original query.
In your post you made comments I thought would warrant further discuss.
"His materials and workmanship are second to none."
By this subjective statement it puts all other luthiers in the world second
place or lower.
"Ask Richard Brune, or any number of luthiers. I think Jose Ramirez even
remarked on Oribe's work, in some of his writings."
Yes, I have talked with Richard Brune, via phone as well as visiting him in his
studio near Chicago. I consider him to be one of the top American experts on
classical and flamenco guitars. In all our conversations over the years we
never spoke of Oribe. I believe he had an example in one of his display cases
when I last visited. I did not play it. Don Jose Ramirez spoke of Oribe's use
of Western Red Cedar in his book Things About The Guitar. A good if sometimes
less than factual account of the Ramirez legend.
In a phone conversation I had with Oribe many years ago, I asked him if he knew
the name of any of the early, i.e. 19th century guitar builders working in
California. He indicated that he did not know any 19th century builders and
that he was the only guitar builder working in California during the 20th
century. I felt his arrogance and ignorance spoke volumes.
"If they were too costly, no one would buy them. Right? So, to say Oribe is
over priced is a falsehood. He has built over 1600 instruments, since 1962."
Yes, I know he sells his instruments all the time. He told me the Japanese are
very hot on his guitars. I have also seen them pay thousands for Levi
bluejeans. I have seen them pay millions for Southern California real estate
that was only worth one million.
The fact that he can sell his instruments at the price he demands is not
germane to the question. Bless him that he can. I don't care if people pay his
price. If people want them, they will buy them. Again, the initial question was
not based upon supply and demand or price point.
"So, to say Oribe is over priced is a falsehood."
Again, I never said his guitars were over priced.
I visited his studio many years ago before the move to his present location.
Yes I know the price of land in California. I own some undeveloped mountain
property. Outrageously inflated prices, but then, they are not making any of it
anymore.
"…look at his life style…"
I do not understand how invading his privacy would further define his ability
as a luthier.
Yes, Hasselblad cameras are nice and costly. The best large format camera on
the market. Leica make a nice camera as well and is costly as well. Your point
being?
"I've often wondered who 'John Dowland' is or really is. You all know Paul
McGuffin, my opinions, some have meet me in person. And God knows I am
opinionated! And, about many things. But, one thing for sure, I, David Schramm,
MO and a few
others, in this NG, always put their John Handcock after their opinions. Get my
drift? 'John Dowland'"
"…who 'John Dowland' is or really is."
Usage confusing. I assume you meant to say "…who 'John Dowland' (sic) was or
really is" or "who 'John Dowland' (sic) is or really was."
"And God knows…"
Usage confusing. Would be better not to begin a sentence with "And".
"And, about many…"
Usage confusing. See above comment. Further, linguists consider the use of a
comma following "and" to be redundant.
"…David Schramm…"
By your own "subjective opinion", one of the countless luthiers who do not
measure up to the finest luthier in the world. [[ As a side note, I spoke
with David Schramm years ago when he was just beginning and found him to be a
bright light in storm of builders. I believe he will still be around when many
others will have changed professions. Unfortunately I have never had the chance
to play any of his guitars, but my "subjective opinion" based upon what I have
read and heard is they would be exceptionally fine instruments. ]]
"…John Handcock…"
I assume this is merely an historically inaccurate reference. His name was
Hancock, not Handcock.
M.O. tried to discover my identity but brilliantly failed. Briefly, my name
would not change my opinion no more than your opinion would change if you
spelled your name MacGuffin.
I do in fact "get your drift." The question is, do you get my drift?
'JohnDowland'