William Jennings
2004-01-12 03:12:54 UTC
From: Matanya Ophee (***@iwaynet.net)
Subject: Re: Angel Barrios Sheet Music ?
View: Complete Thread (10 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Date: 1996/08/19
Allright, but I'll have to reiterate several things I already said
here, and elswhere, on several occasions. Barrios' music (Augustin) is
not any better or worse than a lot of other music written by
South-American and European composers during the first decades of this
century. As a matter of fact, I used to play it myself. I well
remember the occasion (1960-61) when I used it in restaurant gigs in
Chicago. That is quite few years before it became so popular. There
was not much of it available then. Mostly the walses published by
Ricordi Americana. Works great, particularly when accompanied by the
slurping of spaghetti in this one Italian restaurant...
And then came one Richard Stover, invariably also known as Dick, Rico,
el Gringo or whatever, and started his one man campaign in elevating
the stature of Mangore into a God-like figure. He has been writing
this one article for well over 25 years now, and published, with few
changes here and there, in Guitar and Lute magazine (Honolulu),
Soundboard, Chelys, Classical Guitar, Guitar Review not to mention his
Six Silver Moonbeams book. (I probably missed other variants of it
published elsewhere...)
As far as I can tell from reading all these variants of this one
article, is that the main argument consists of the notion that
Mangore's music is somehow endowed with unique features that are not
related in anyway to the European late 19th century tradition, but to
an esoteric component described by Stover in some arcane and
unproveable mystic elements. I am sure there are somethings that are
indeed unique to this music, as there must be some elements to the
music of _any_ composer. However, in my view this music is firmly in
the tradition of late 19th century _European_ romanticism, and as
such, no different than the music of, let's say, Julian Arcas, Tomas
Damas, Antonio Cano, Juan Bosch, Manjon, Calatayud, Carlos Garcia
Tolsa, Luigi Mozzani, Julio Sagreras, Adolfo Luna, Hector Ayala,
Domingo Prat, Miguel Llobet, Julio Martinez Oyanguren, Jorge Crespo,
and a score of other composers of greater or lesser renown.
The main difference in the public acceptance of this music, is the
amount of promotional hype given to it by Stover, the gullibility
demonsrated by many in swallowing this hype uncritically, and the fact
that it was widely performed and recorded by John Williams, David
Russel and a few other performers. That fact in itself only proves
that the music is a good vehicle for these guys in the conduct of
their respective careers. It does not make it "good" music. Of course,
if you enjoy listening and playing Mangore, it is not for me to tell
you that you are wrong. Question of personal taste. Where I draw the
line, is when I am told that this is something unique and special. As
an observer of the musical scene, I cannot accept this view. You may
successfully program the Catedral and the Limosna in the same program
with the Britten Nocturnal, Carter's Changes, or Takemitsu's Folios,
and all the power to you if you can sell this program to the public.
But please do not invite me to the watch the spectacle.
I could also launch into a detailed comparison of some of Mangore's
works with other well-known pieces of guitar music, but then I shall
appear as accusing him of plagiarism. Is there a reason why La
Catedral reeks of elements found in Regondi's Etude No. 6? Probably
Mangore had never seen this piece. To my knowledge, _no one_ had seen
it until I found it in 1987. But there is no question in my mind that
the same late 19th century European romanticism which influenced
Regondi, also worked in a similar fashion on Mangore. He, like many of
his South-American contemporaries, did not work in a musical vacuum.
'Nuff said?
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphée, Inc.,
And:
Search Result 12
From: Matanya Ophee (***@orphee.com)
Subject: Re: more Mo
View: Complete Thread (15 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Date: 2001-08-05 09:31:49 PST
and some of them are not. For me, as a commercial publisher with a
specific publishing agenda, they are worthless. I am simply making a
straight commercial judgement about the viability of publishing a
facsimile of these manuscripts. In my judgement, such a project is
doomed to failure because of the availability of several excellent
editions of Barrios' music, particularly the one by Chris Dumigan
where the music was lifted off the Barrios recordings. As Klaus
already pointed out, those manuscripts were full of basic musical
errors which could not be left in by any conscientious editor. Doc has
been faxing these manuscripts to many different publishers and editors
all over the world, and quite obviously, no one, so far, has taken a
bite. Perhaps some one like Mel Bay might. A good marketing ploy is
more important here than what's actually in the book. We have seen
this on several occasions before.
These manuscripts must be a curiosity of some interest to Barrios
aficionados, a rare breed these days. The Barrios thing has been over
for quite sometime, to judge by the content of concert programming.
Some people still play it, some people still record it, but on the
whole, Rico Stover would better look for another topic. This one has
been exhausted. Just check out my reviews of the three guitar festival
I attended last year and see how much Barrios was played. (I also
attended the GFA festival in San Antonio, but did not attend all the
concerts) I'll let you know, once again, when I come back from _this_
summer's festivals.
That's good news, and the first eye witness report that assures us
that yes, there is actually someone named Doc Jennings, and yes, he
does play the guitar. As for your judgement about his right hand:
can you please tell us something about yourself? who are you and what
are _your_ qualifications to express judgements on any one's right
hand?
Obviously, if this is the best right hand you have ever seen or heard
in person, you must have heard others that, in your expressed
judgement, are not as good as Doc's. Who?
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
And:
Search Result 16
From: Matanya Ophee (***@orphee.com)
Subject: Re: First cg-pub Administrative Post October 3, 2000
View: Complete Thread (5 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Date: 2001-08-06 21:29:15 PST
Like you said: line, hook and sinker. Stupidity is one of the major
components in the make-up of a schmegege. Thank you for confirming
this.
which I put a great deal of thought. I appreciate the effort you put
into preserving me legacy.
and the market seems to support my hunch, this is all water under the
Rico Stover bridge. Banal silly compositions by an incompetent
musician who couldn't write original music to save his soul. Segovia
was right to dismiss him as a freak show.
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
Subject: Re: Angel Barrios Sheet Music ?
View: Complete Thread (10 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Date: 1996/08/19
The main issue for me, is
not so much the quality of the music, of either Barrios, but rather
the constant barrage of hype regarding Mangore.
What do you mean, Matanya?not so much the quality of the music, of either Barrios, but rather
the constant barrage of hype regarding Mangore.
here, and elswhere, on several occasions. Barrios' music (Augustin) is
not any better or worse than a lot of other music written by
South-American and European composers during the first decades of this
century. As a matter of fact, I used to play it myself. I well
remember the occasion (1960-61) when I used it in restaurant gigs in
Chicago. That is quite few years before it became so popular. There
was not much of it available then. Mostly the walses published by
Ricordi Americana. Works great, particularly when accompanied by the
slurping of spaghetti in this one Italian restaurant...
And then came one Richard Stover, invariably also known as Dick, Rico,
el Gringo or whatever, and started his one man campaign in elevating
the stature of Mangore into a God-like figure. He has been writing
this one article for well over 25 years now, and published, with few
changes here and there, in Guitar and Lute magazine (Honolulu),
Soundboard, Chelys, Classical Guitar, Guitar Review not to mention his
Six Silver Moonbeams book. (I probably missed other variants of it
published elsewhere...)
As far as I can tell from reading all these variants of this one
article, is that the main argument consists of the notion that
Mangore's music is somehow endowed with unique features that are not
related in anyway to the European late 19th century tradition, but to
an esoteric component described by Stover in some arcane and
unproveable mystic elements. I am sure there are somethings that are
indeed unique to this music, as there must be some elements to the
music of _any_ composer. However, in my view this music is firmly in
the tradition of late 19th century _European_ romanticism, and as
such, no different than the music of, let's say, Julian Arcas, Tomas
Damas, Antonio Cano, Juan Bosch, Manjon, Calatayud, Carlos Garcia
Tolsa, Luigi Mozzani, Julio Sagreras, Adolfo Luna, Hector Ayala,
Domingo Prat, Miguel Llobet, Julio Martinez Oyanguren, Jorge Crespo,
and a score of other composers of greater or lesser renown.
The main difference in the public acceptance of this music, is the
amount of promotional hype given to it by Stover, the gullibility
demonsrated by many in swallowing this hype uncritically, and the fact
that it was widely performed and recorded by John Williams, David
Russel and a few other performers. That fact in itself only proves
that the music is a good vehicle for these guys in the conduct of
their respective careers. It does not make it "good" music. Of course,
if you enjoy listening and playing Mangore, it is not for me to tell
you that you are wrong. Question of personal taste. Where I draw the
line, is when I am told that this is something unique and special. As
an observer of the musical scene, I cannot accept this view. You may
successfully program the Catedral and the Limosna in the same program
with the Britten Nocturnal, Carter's Changes, or Takemitsu's Folios,
and all the power to you if you can sell this program to the public.
But please do not invite me to the watch the spectacle.
I could also launch into a detailed comparison of some of Mangore's
works with other well-known pieces of guitar music, but then I shall
appear as accusing him of plagiarism. Is there a reason why La
Catedral reeks of elements found in Regondi's Etude No. 6? Probably
Mangore had never seen this piece. To my knowledge, _no one_ had seen
it until I found it in 1987. But there is no question in my mind that
the same late 19th century European romanticism which influenced
Regondi, also worked in a similar fashion on Mangore. He, like many of
his South-American contemporaries, did not work in a musical vacuum.
'Nuff said?
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphée, Inc.,
And:
Search Result 12
From: Matanya Ophee (***@orphee.com)
Subject: Re: more Mo
View: Complete Thread (15 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Date: 2001-08-05 09:31:49 PST
Mr. Ophee,
This is not true. I have read your messages at Mr. Jennings home. You
areThis is not true. I have read your messages at Mr. Jennings home. You
misrepresenting your e-mails about the Barrios works.
Not at all. I never doubted that some of them are indeed autographs,and some of them are not. For me, as a commercial publisher with a
specific publishing agenda, they are worthless. I am simply making a
straight commercial judgement about the viability of publishing a
facsimile of these manuscripts. In my judgement, such a project is
doomed to failure because of the availability of several excellent
editions of Barrios' music, particularly the one by Chris Dumigan
where the music was lifted off the Barrios recordings. As Klaus
already pointed out, those manuscripts were full of basic musical
errors which could not be left in by any conscientious editor. Doc has
been faxing these manuscripts to many different publishers and editors
all over the world, and quite obviously, no one, so far, has taken a
bite. Perhaps some one like Mel Bay might. A good marketing ploy is
more important here than what's actually in the book. We have seen
this on several occasions before.
These manuscripts must be a curiosity of some interest to Barrios
aficionados, a rare breed these days. The Barrios thing has been over
for quite sometime, to judge by the content of concert programming.
Some people still play it, some people still record it, but on the
whole, Rico Stover would better look for another topic. This one has
been exhausted. Just check out my reviews of the three guitar festival
I attended last year and see how much Barrios was played. (I also
attended the GFA festival in San Antonio, but did not attend all the
concerts) I'll let you know, once again, when I come back from _this_
summer's festivals.
I have also visited Mr.
Jennings in his home and studio at Camp Useless. I have watched Mr.
Jennings playJennings in his home and studio at Camp Useless. I have watched Mr.
for hours. Mr. Jennings has the best right hand I have ever seen or
heard in person.That's good news, and the first eye witness report that assures us
that yes, there is actually someone named Doc Jennings, and yes, he
does play the guitar. As for your judgement about his right hand:
can you please tell us something about yourself? who are you and what
are _your_ qualifications to express judgements on any one's right
hand?
Obviously, if this is the best right hand you have ever seen or heard
in person, you must have heard others that, in your expressed
judgement, are not as good as Doc's. Who?
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
And:
Search Result 16
From: Matanya Ophee (***@orphee.com)
Subject: Re: First cg-pub Administrative Post October 3, 2000
View: Complete Thread (5 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Date: 2001-08-06 21:29:15 PST
In another thread on this subject you said I was a blatant liar, I
couldnot possibly have all these messages. Now that you see I have every
oneof them you say " big deal."
Which was my way of fooling you into revealing what exactly you have.Like you said: line, hook and sinker. Stupidity is one of the major
components in the make-up of a schmegege. Thank you for confirming
this.
Yep, it's no big deal, just a small part of what I have put together
for asmall time capsule for the future.
A noble thought, since most of it is material I have written and intowhich I put a great deal of thought. I appreciate the effort you put
into preserving me legacy.
The Barrios compositions count for a great deal
If it makes you happy to think so, go ahead. As far as I am concerned,and the market seems to support my hunch, this is all water under the
Rico Stover bridge. Banal silly compositions by an incompetent
musician who couldn't write original music to save his soul. Segovia
was right to dismiss him as a freak show.
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com