Discussion:
Kohno Guitars
(too old to reply)
Jim
2004-10-26 17:54:17 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Why are old Kohno guitars under rated?

Kohno was one of the best luthier.
He won the first prize in Brussels in 1966
ahead of Daniel Friedrich at a time when Ignacio Fleta was
President of the jury...!!!
Many well known guitarists played his instruments -
Sharon Isbin, Vladimir Mikulka, etc...

I have played many of his older guitars (#15, #20, #30, #50)
and they are really wonderfull instruments.

I still own a 1971 #15 with a Spruce top.
And I have to admit it sounds much better
than my 1985 Friedrich (which I will probably sell)...

There is something I don't understand...
Am I missing something?

Jim
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
2004-10-26 18:09:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Hi,
Why are old Kohno guitars under rated?
Kohno was one of the best luthier.
He won the first prize in Brussels in 1966
ahead of Daniel Friedrich at a time when Ignacio Fleta was
President of the jury...!!!
Many well known guitarists played his instruments -
Sharon Isbin, Vladimir Mikulka, etc...
I have played many of his older guitars (#15, #20, #30, #50)
and they are really wonderfull instruments.
I still own a 1971 #15 with a Spruce top.
And I have to admit it sounds much better
than my 1985 Friedrich (which I will probably sell)...
There is something I don't understand...
Am I missing something?
Jim
I'm sure someone will answer. I don't remember who it was (perhaps
John Golden) who loves Kohno's guitars. I've played a couple of old
ones and was very impressed myself.
The only answer that really makes sense is that something is worth a
lot if someone is willing to pay a lot for it. How else to explain that
Superman #1 comic book is "worth" tens of thousands of dollars?

Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
John E. Golden
2004-10-27 01:55:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
I'm sure someone will answer. I don't remember who it was
(perhaps John Golden) who loves Kohno's guitars. I've played a >
couple > of old ones and was very > impressed myself.
The only answer that really makes sense is that something is
worth a lot if someone is willing to pay a lot for it. How else to
explain that Superman #1 comic book is "worth" tens of thousands of
dollars?
Steve
Yes sir, It wuz I.

My Kohno is a 1975 Model 10 with Cedar Soundboard and Indian Rosewood
Back & Sides, Ebony Fingerboard, Brazilian Rosewood Bridge, rather
fancy Gotoh gold-plated tuning machines, and the beautiful Kohno
Rosette. I just purchased it three months ago and I'm very happy
with it.

In my opinion, both the sound and the looks of my Kohno are Stunning.

I like Kohno guitars very much. I consider them to be absolutely
top-level professional guitars.

Kohno's are the Cadillac's of Japanese classical guitars. Very fine
guitars, with deep basses, brilliant trebles, and a reputation for
being among the most consistent and reliable guitars. Masaru Kohno
was a serious guy. Until recently, I never saw a photo of him
smiling.

All of Mr. Kohno's guitars, including mine, are also finished on the
inside. Twenty-nine years old, but my Kohno is still in wonderful
condition with no cracks.

Mr. Kohno also always inlaid two longitudinal ebony longitudinal
support struts inlaid into the neck for greater stability. Twenty-
nine years old, but my Kohno's neck is still "straight as an arrow."

Mr. Kohno's guitars have been played by a number of famous artists,
and his guitars have a reputation for durability and reliability
second to none. Perhaps the extra pains Mr. Kohno went to (finishing
the inside and installing two ebony supports in the neck) are part of
the reason.

In order to understand Kohno model numbers, you should know that
Japanese guitar manufacturers, including Kohno, are all reluctant to
raise prices on existing models and therefore, over time, they trim
features on existing models and establish new so-called higher line
models as a marketing strategy.

Like all Japanese companies, Model numbers kept changing. In the
early 1970's, the Model 20 or 30 was probably the top of the line.
By December, 1998, when Mr. Kohno died, the Models 50 & 80 were the
top models. However, all model Kohno's of a given vintage have
identical bracing--the difference is in wood selection and trim.
The trim on the Model 80 made it look like the "pimpmobile" model.
But I'm just trying to be facetious--Kohno's are very fine,
absolutely professional level guitars. Considered to be the most
desirable Japanese classical guitars. Perhaps lacking the ultimate
"snob appeal," but, in my opinion, that's at least partly because of
prejudice against the Japanese.

From my limited experience, I'd say that the Tonewoods and the Build
Year Define the sound, i. e., all the Models were built with the same
Bracing and the same Craftsmanship. The only exception might be the
very lowest line Models of most recent vintage.....since their
description doesn't say "Solid" Back and Sides, I assume they are
Laminated (Plywood).

However, over the years, the sound of Kohno's changed, IMO.....later
Model Years had a "Brighter" Treble Sound. The "bright" sound is now
very fashionable and is the sound that I believe most classical
guitarists currently prefer. The Basses on all Kohno's that I've
tried have been Awesome.

Most of the older Kohno's have a 660 mm Scale Length. However, many
of the later-model Kohno's have the 650 mm Scale Length that's now
very popular. I prefer the longer Scale Length, and, perhaps I'm
imagining it, but I think the longer scale length guitars are more
resonant.

Some Kohno classical guitars have Mr. Kohno's signature on the label
and some don't (mine doesn't). Of course, the fancier models (Model
50 and 80) all seem to have it. But I've seen some Model 20's with
his signature and some without...also some Model 30's with and some
without. I've even seen some of the old Model 10's and Model 6's
with his signature.

I feel that Kohno's are undervalued in today's market and I cannot
really explain the reasons. I would just advise people looking for
an absolutely top-level professional guitar to take advantage of it.

Regards,
John E. Golden
Edward Bridge
2004-10-27 02:36:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by John E. Golden
Some Kohno classical guitars have Mr. Kohno's signature on the label
and some don't (mine doesn't). Of course, the fancier models (Model
50 and 80) all seem to have it. But I've seen some Model 20's with
his signature and some without...also some Model 30's with and some
without. I've even seen some of the old Model 10's and Model 6's
with his signature.
The questions is , which person made the Kohno? Some are great ,some are
not, depends on who made the guitar.I like Kohno's and Sakuari guitars but
like 1a's . . who made the guitar?
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
John E. Golden
2004-10-27 04:00:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Bridge
Post by John E. Golden
Some Kohno classical guitars have Mr. Kohno's signature on the label
and some don't (mine doesn't). Of course, the fancier models (Model
50 and 80) all seem to have it. But I've seen some Model 20's with
his signature and some without...also some Model 30's with and some
without. I've even seen some of the old Model 10's and Model 6's
with his signature.
The questions is , which person made the Kohno? Some are great ,some
are not, depends on who made the guitar.I like Kohno's and Sakuari
guitars but like 1a's . . who made the guitar?
I think you are asking the wrong question, Ed.

The primary question is how does the guitar sound?

Also, I don't have your wealth of experience, but I've never seen a bad
Kohno guitar.

Regards,
John E. Golden
Edward Bridge
2004-10-27 10:46:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by John E. Golden
I think you are asking the wrong question, Ed.
you were talking about lables. . I was telling you why.
--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
Jim
2004-10-27 06:13:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Bridge
Post by John E. Golden
Some Kohno classical guitars have Mr. Kohno's signature on the label
and some don't (mine doesn't). Of course, the fancier models (Model
50 and 80) all seem to have it. But I've seen some Model 20's with
his signature and some without...also some Model 30's with and some
without. I've even seen some of the old Model 10's and Model 6's
with his signature.
The questions is , which person made the Kohno? Some are great ,some are
not, depends on who made the guitar.I like Kohno's and Sakuari guitars but
like 1a's . . who made the guitar?
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
Well, I believe it's also the wrong question.

Besides, the name of the luthier is on the label.
When he was still alive, models built by Master Luthier Masaru Kohno
had his label inside. On model built by his naphew you can see
his naphew's label reading somethng like: Sakurai, Built Under the
Supervision
of Masaru Kohno".

Japanese have a very strong code of honor.

P.S.: If someone has a pre-1978 model 30 or 20
or a pre-1980 model 50 for sell, I'm a potential buyer...
In excellent condition...

Jim
Edward Bridge
2004-10-27 11:20:23 UTC
Permalink
/
Post by Jim
Well, I believe it's also the wrong question.
my point was the sign and un lables john was talking about , sorry for not
being clear. I do think the reason why some Kohno's just knock me out and
some did not , depends on who was doing what that day.
Post by Jim
Besides, the name of the luthier is on the label.
When he was still alive, models built by Master Luthier Masaru Kohno
had his label inside. On model built by his naphew you can see
his naphew's label reading somethng like: Sakurai, Built Under the
Supervision
of Masaru Kohno".
John was talking about why some were sign and some were_ not_ I had 3 or 4
Kohnos were early 90's that were not. I have had over ten Kohno's ,
Post by Jim
Japanese have a very strong code of honor.
Telling me about Japanese. . .cool ! My mother in law has been neighbors
with the Kohno's for over 25 years , she has stop there a few times for
me years ago before internet Some one's wife has sit a few times to have a
nice talk over tea, very sweet people. This was in their home, The shop or
at least the part of it was part of the home. My mother inlaw did'nt know
about their show rooms until she went looking for Yamashita tapes for me.
They did'nt tell her,code of honor. "Your our neighbor, so come on in." :>)

Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com
Chris Erwich
2004-10-27 14:25:07 UTC
Permalink
But the question remains. Why did he sign one guitar and din't sign the
other. I always thought he just signed the higher numbers. But now I am
reading that he also signed 15 ns and 20ies. ! I have a 15 and a 20 both
unsigned, but they are really excelent instruments.

Chris
Post by Edward Bridge
/
Post by Jim
Well, I believe it's also the wrong question.
my point was the sign and un lables john was talking about , sorry for not
being clear. I do think the reason why some Kohno's just knock me out and
some did not , depends on who was doing what that day.
Post by Jim
Besides, the name of the luthier is on the label.
When he was still alive, models built by Master Luthier Masaru Kohno
had his label inside. On model built by his naphew you can see
his naphew's label reading somethng like: Sakurai, Built Under the
Supervision
of Masaru Kohno".
John was talking about why some were sign and some were_ not_ I had 3 or 4
Kohnos were early 90's that were not. I have had over ten Kohno's ,
Post by Jim
Japanese have a very strong code of honor.
Telling me about Japanese. . .cool ! My mother in law has been neighbors
with the Kohno's for over 25 years , she has stop there a few times for
me years ago before internet Some one's wife has sit a few times to have a
nice talk over tea, very sweet people. This was in their home, The shop or
at least the part of it was part of the home. My mother inlaw did'nt know
about their show rooms until she went looking for Yamashita tapes for me.
They did'nt tell her,code of honor. "Your our neighbor, so come on in."
:>)
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com
Jim
2004-10-27 17:57:55 UTC
Permalink
That question has been asked before,
but I don't think there is a real answer to it.
Of all the Kohnos I've played (about a dozen)
some were signed and some were not.

It did not have any incidence on the sound of the guitar.
Some unsigned ones sounded better than some signed models.
But since they were played more, the spruce top
opened up much better.

Intensice playing of a spruce top guitar (of good craftsmanship, that is)
accounts a lot for the way she will sing.

So, an unsigned Kohno who's been played a lot,
will sound much, much better than a signed one which
has been played less.

Some ink on a piece of paper does not make a guitar sound better....

As someone has said before, time is money so a signed
Kohno is worth more due to the extra time it took late
Masaru San to sign the label. :-)) LOL.

Jim
Post by Chris Erwich
But the question remains. Why did he sign one guitar and din't sign the
other. I always thought he just signed the higher numbers. But now I am
reading that he also signed 15 ns and 20ies. ! I have a 15 and a 20 both
unsigned, but they are really excelent instruments.
Chris
Post by Edward Bridge
/
Post by Jim
Well, I believe it's also the wrong question.
my point was the sign and un lables john was talking about , sorry for not
being clear. I do think the reason why some Kohno's just knock me out and
some did not , depends on who was doing what that day.
Post by Jim
Besides, the name of the luthier is on the label.
When he was still alive, models built by Master Luthier Masaru Kohno
had his label inside. On model built by his naphew you can see
his naphew's label reading somethng like: Sakurai, Built Under the
Supervision
of Masaru Kohno".
John was talking about why some were sign and some were_ not_ I had 3 or 4
Kohnos were early 90's that were not. I have had over ten Kohno's ,
Post by Jim
Japanese have a very strong code of honor.
Telling me about Japanese. . .cool ! My mother in law has been neighbors
with the Kohno's for over 25 years , she has stop there a few times for
me years ago before internet Some one's wife has sit a few times to have a
nice talk over tea, very sweet people. This was in their home, The shop or
at least the part of it was part of the home. My mother inlaw did'nt know
about their show rooms until she went looking for Yamashita tapes for me.
They did'nt tell her,code of honor. "Your our neighbor, so come on in."
:>)
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com
Chris Erwich
2004-10-27 20:45:06 UTC
Permalink
When I am well informed Bernabe never signs his instruments at all.
.
The numbers Kohno 15, 20, 30 etc , are by the way related to the prices in
YEN. 150.000 , 200.000 etc. YEN .

Chris
Post by Jim
That question has been asked before,
but I don't think there is a real answer to it.
Of all the Kohnos I've played (about a dozen)
some were signed and some were not.
It did not have any incidence on the sound of the guitar.
Some unsigned ones sounded better than some signed models.
But since they were played more, the spruce top
opened up much better.
Intensice playing of a spruce top guitar (of good craftsmanship, that is)
accounts a lot for the way she will sing.
So, an unsigned Kohno who's been played a lot,
will sound much, much better than a signed one which
has been played less.
Some ink on a piece of paper does not make a guitar sound better....
As someone has said before, time is money so a signed
Kohno is worth more due to the extra time it took late
Masaru San to sign the label. :-)) LOL.
Jim
Post by Chris Erwich
But the question remains. Why did he sign one guitar and din't sign the
other. I always thought he just signed the higher numbers. But now I am
reading that he also signed 15 ns and 20ies. ! I have a 15 and a 20 both
unsigned, but they are really excelent instruments.
Chris
Post by Edward Bridge
/
Post by Jim
Well, I believe it's also the wrong question.
my point was the sign and un lables john was talking about , sorry for not
being clear. I do think the reason why some Kohno's just knock me out and
some did not , depends on who was doing what that day.
Post by Jim
Besides, the name of the luthier is on the label.
When he was still alive, models built by Master Luthier Masaru Kohno
had his label inside. On model built by his naphew you can see
his naphew's label reading somethng like: Sakurai, Built Under the
Supervision
of Masaru Kohno".
John was talking about why some were sign and some were_ not_ I had 3 or 4
Kohnos were early 90's that were not. I have had over ten Kohno's ,
Post by Jim
Japanese have a very strong code of honor.
Telling me about Japanese. . .cool ! My mother in law has been neighbors
with the Kohno's for over 25 years , she has stop there a few times for
me years ago before internet Some one's wife has sit a few times to have a
nice talk over tea, very sweet people. This was in their home, The shop or
at least the part of it was part of the home. My mother inlaw did'nt know
about their show rooms until she went looking for Yamashita tapes for me.
They did'nt tell her,code of honor. "Your our neighbor, so come on in."
:>)
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com
Richard Jernigan
2004-10-29 01:38:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Erwich
When I am well informed Bernabe never signs his instruments at all.
http://www.tinyurl.com/4fk3w

...click on the small picture of the label to get a good view of
Bernabe's signature...

RNJ

Chris Erwich
2004-10-26 18:52:43 UTC
Permalink
I totally agree.
I own two Kohno's a 1974 Kohno 15 and I recently purchased a 1977 Kohno 20
( for 1100 Euro's!)
I also own a Contreras doble tapa, but somehow I prefer the Kohno's !!!
They are great instruments. Mikulka palyed a Kohno but switched later to a
Fleta. But I read somewhere that Julian Bream also owned a Kohno at a
certain time.

Chris
Post by Jim
Hi,
Why are old Kohno guitars under rated?
Kohno was one of the best luthier.
He won the first prize in Brussels in 1966
ahead of Daniel Friedrich at a time when Ignacio Fleta was
President of the jury...!!!
Many well known guitarists played his instruments -
Sharon Isbin, Vladimir Mikulka, etc...
I have played many of his older guitars (#15, #20, #30, #50)
and they are really wonderfull instruments.
I still own a 1971 #15 with a Spruce top.
And I have to admit it sounds much better
than my 1985 Friedrich (which I will probably sell)...
There is something I don't understand...
Am I missing something?
Jim
dsi1
2004-10-26 21:33:44 UTC
Permalink
It's just one of those mysteries of life. Why does a mass produced
guitar made in the fifties sell for $20K? Beats me. I think it's good
when you can acquire something you value highly at an undervalued price.
It doesn't happen often. Don't be surprised if the prices go up on these
guitars. My gut feeling is that the time is right, and usually my guts
are right 50% of the time.
Post by Jim
Hi,
Why are old Kohno guitars under rated?
Kohno was one of the best luthier.
He won the first prize in Brussels in 1966
ahead of Daniel Friedrich at a time when Ignacio Fleta was
President of the jury...!!!
Many well known guitarists played his instruments -
Sharon Isbin, Vladimir Mikulka, etc...
I have played many of his older guitars (#15, #20, #30, #50)
and they are really wonderfull instruments.
I still own a 1971 #15 with a Spruce top.
And I have to admit it sounds much better
than my 1985 Friedrich (which I will probably sell)...
There is something I don't understand...
Am I missing something?
Jim
ITMX925
2004-10-27 02:29:12 UTC
Permalink
Dear Jim -

You are not missing anything - they are not underrated by those who are in the
know.

I feel a great deal of the lack of respect for his instruments is not because
they are not exceptional guitars - it is just they are not European guitars.

There is a great deal of up-turned noses when it comes to who owns what and who
plays what.

I had a delightful letter from this masterful luthier regarding a flamenco
guitar he had built in the early 1960s. One of the best flamenco guitars I've
ever played.

Congratulations on your 1971. It should be happy and healthy when you're
pushing up daisys.

Best regards,

'JohnDowland'
Himmelhoch
2004-10-27 14:29:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi folks,

Just an informational note:

I have owned for over 20 years a 1976 Kohno 15, unsigned but with the Kohno
name on the label.

It has no finish on the interior, but does have the characteristic double inly
neck. It also suffered several cracks over the years, mostly when I moved from
a humid basement in Maryland to a steam heated dry NYC apartment.

Seth H.
Terlizzi
2004-10-28 02:34:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi Seth,
I used a Kohno for a while in the early 80s. It was beautifully balanced,
projected really well and was easy to play. It was a borrowed guitar that I
performed on quite a bit.
Unfortunately, the owner fell on it and totally destroyed it. His knee went
right through the top.!
Mark
Post by Himmelhoch
Hi folks,
I have owned for over 20 years a 1976 Kohno 15, unsigned but with the Kohno
name on the label.
It has no finish on the interior, but does have the characteristic double inly
neck. It also suffered several cracks over the years, mostly when I moved from
a humid basement in Maryland to a steam heated dry NYC apartment.
Seth H.
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