Discussion:
Why Guitar is not taught in schools
(too old to reply)
e***@yahoo.com
2008-03-27 19:50:45 UTC
Permalink
I've been talking to several people with kids in grade school and they
were telling me there are classroom lessons for most wind instruments
except piano and guitar.

I can see why piano is excluded - schools would need too many
expensive painos and keep them tuned.

But guitar is another matter. I'm thinking it's because all the other
instruments have one basic teaching method, "classical". Guitar has
multiple methods for steal string and classical guitars, methods for
folk, popular, rock, jazz and classical, pick style, finger style folk
and classical, etc, but not one basic (accepted) way of learning the
guitar.

Since there are people here who have direct experience with teaching
children, individually and in school environments, can you comment on
the reasons guitar is considered a one on one teacher/student taught
instrument?

Ed S.
ktaylor
2008-03-27 20:08:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@yahoo.com
I've been talking to several people with kids in grade school and they
were telling me there are classroom lessons for most wind instruments
except piano and guitar.
I can see why piano is excluded - schools would need too many
expensive painos and keep them tuned.
But guitar is another matter. I'm thinking it's because all the other
instruments have one basic teaching method, "classical". Guitar has
multiple methods for steal string and classical guitars, methods for
folk, popular, rock, jazz and classical, pick style, finger style folk
and classical, etc, but not one basic (accepted) way of learning the
guitar.
Since there are people here who have direct experience with teaching
children, individually and in school environments, can you comment on
the reasons guitar is considered a one on one teacher/student taught
instrument?
Ed S.
1) Instructional ignorance.
2) Curricular absence.
3) It is thought to be a solo instrument (that is why piano is rarely
taught).
4) Resistance by band instructors.
5) Lack of qualified, literate guitar teachers in the schools.
6) No acceptable ensemble repertoire.

I suppose I could think of a few more reasons. But I have to go teach,
now.

Kevin Taylor
www.childbloom.com
Steve Freides
2008-03-27 20:27:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ktaylor
Post by e***@yahoo.com
I've been talking to several people with kids in grade school and they
were telling me there are classroom lessons for most wind instruments
except piano and guitar.
I can see why piano is excluded - schools would need too many
expensive painos and keep them tuned.
But guitar is another matter. I'm thinking it's because all the other
instruments have one basic teaching method, "classical". Guitar has
multiple methods for steal string and classical guitars, methods for
folk, popular, rock, jazz and classical, pick style, finger style folk
and classical, etc, but not one basic (accepted) way of learning the
guitar.
Since there are people here who have direct experience with teaching
children, individually and in school environments, can you comment on
the reasons guitar is considered a one on one teacher/student taught
instrument?
Ed S.
1) Instructional ignorance.
2) Curricular absence.
3) It is thought to be a solo instrument (that is why piano is rarely
taught).
4) Resistance by band instructors.
5) Lack of qualified, literate guitar teachers in the schools.
6) No acceptable ensemble repertoire.
I suppose I could think of a few more reasons. But I have to go teach,
now.
Kevin Taylor
www.childbloom.com
A lot of school instruction is group instruction, and it's much harder
to teach polyphonic instruments in a group setting (also another reason
piano isn't taught in schools). At least in my town here in NJ, when
you play an instrument, you go to both ensemble rehearsal and small
group lessons, the latter possibly including more than one instruments,
e.g., all the winds or all the brasses.

And, of course, what Kevin says is true - it's outside the mainstream
and there aren't, e.g., guitar parts in school arrangements, although
there could easily be.

-S-
t***@lycos.com
2008-03-28 18:34:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Freides
Post by ktaylor
Post by e***@yahoo.com
I've been talking to several people with kids in grade school and they
were telling me there are classroom lessons for most wind instruments
except piano and guitar.
I can see why piano is excluded - schools would need too many
expensive painos and keep them tuned.
But guitar is another matter.  I'm thinking it's because all the
other
instruments have one basic teaching method, "classical".  Guitar has
multiple methods for steal string and classical guitars, methods for
folk, popular, rock, jazz and classical, pick style, finger style folk
and classical, etc, but not one basic (accepted) way of learning the
guitar.
Since there are people here who have direct experience with teaching
children, individually and in school environments, can you comment on
the reasons guitar is considered a one on one teacher/student taught
instrument?
Ed S.
1) Instructional ignorance.
2) Curricular absence.
3) It is thought to be a solo instrument (that is why piano is rarely
taught).
4) Resistance by band instructors.
5) Lack of qualified, literate guitar teachers in the schools.
6) No acceptable ensemble repertoire.
I suppose I could think of a few more reasons. But I have to go teach,
now.
Kevin Taylor
www.childbloom.com
A lot of school instruction is group instruction, and it's much harder
to teach polyphonic instruments in a group setting (also another reason
piano isn't taught in schools).  At least in my town here in NJ, when
you play an instrument, you go to both ensemble rehearsal and small
group lessons, the latter possibly including more than one instruments,
e.g., all the winds or all the brasses.
And, of course, what Kevin says is true - it's outside the mainstream
and there aren't, e.g., guitar parts in school arrangements, although
there could easily be.
-S-- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Outside the mainstream? It IS the fucking mainstream you idiot!

Troy Donaghue III
e***@yahoo.com
2008-03-28 19:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Freides
Post by ktaylor
Post by e***@yahoo.com
I've been talking to several people with kids in grade school and they
were telling me there are classroom lessons for most wind instruments
except piano and guitar.
I can see why piano is excluded - schools would need too many
expensive painos and keep them tuned.
But guitar is another matter.  I'm thinking it's because all the
other
instruments have one basic teaching method, "classical".  Guitar has
multiple methods for steal string and classical guitars, methods for
folk, popular, rock, jazz and classical, pick style, finger style folk
and classical, etc, but not one basic (accepted) way of learning the
guitar.
Since there are people here who have direct experience with teaching
children, individually and in school environments, can you comment on
the reasons guitar is considered a one on one teacher/student taught
instrument?
Ed S.
1) Instructional ignorance.
2) Curricular absence.
3) It is thought to be a solo instrument (that is why piano is rarely
taught).
4) Resistance by band instructors.
5) Lack of qualified, literate guitar teachers in the schools.
6) No acceptable ensemble repertoire.
I suppose I could think of a few more reasons. But I have to go teach,
now.
Kevin Taylor
www.childbloom.com
A lot of school instruction is group instruction, and it's much harder
to teach polyphonic instruments in a group setting (also another reason
piano isn't taught in schools).  At least in my town here in NJ, when
you play an instrument, you go to both ensemble rehearsal and small
group lessons, the latter possibly including more than one instruments,
e.g., all the winds or all the brasses.
And, of course, what Kevin says is true - it's outside the mainstream
and there aren't, e.g., guitar parts in school arrangements, although
there could easily be.
-S-- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Outside the mainstream?  It IS the fucking mainstream you idiot!
Troy Donaghue III- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
cue the music from Jaws...
Steve Freides
2008-03-29 23:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Freides
Post by ktaylor
Post by e***@yahoo.com
I've been talking to several people with kids in grade school and they
were telling me there are classroom lessons for most wind
instruments
except piano and guitar.
I can see why piano is excluded - schools would need too many
expensive painos and keep them tuned.
But guitar is another matter. I'm thinking it's because all the
other
instruments have one basic teaching method, "classical". Guitar
has
multiple methods for steal string and classical guitars, methods for
folk, popular, rock, jazz and classical, pick style, finger style folk
and classical, etc, but not one basic (accepted) way of learning the
guitar.
Since there are people here who have direct experience with teaching
children, individually and in school environments, can you comment on
the reasons guitar is considered a one on one teacher/student taught
instrument?
Ed S.
1) Instructional ignorance.
2) Curricular absence.
3) It is thought to be a solo instrument (that is why piano is rarely
taught).
4) Resistance by band instructors.
5) Lack of qualified, literate guitar teachers in the schools.
6) No acceptable ensemble repertoire.
I suppose I could think of a few more reasons. But I have to go teach,
now.
Kevin Taylor
www.childbloom.com
A lot of school instruction is group instruction, and it's much harder
to teach polyphonic instruments in a group setting (also another reason
piano isn't taught in schools). At least in my town here in NJ, when
you play an instrument, you go to both ensemble rehearsal and small
group lessons, the latter possibly including more than one
instruments,
e.g., all the winds or all the brasses.
And, of course, what Kevin says is true - it's outside the
mainstream
and there aren't, e.g., guitar parts in school arrangements,
although
there could easily be.
-S-- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Outside the mainstream? It IS the fucking mainstream you idiot!
Troy Donaghue III- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
cue the music from Jaws...

Perhaps I should have said outside the mainstream of what's been done in
schools for the last umpteen years. I thought that was clear from the
context but obviously not to some.

-S-
Learnwell
2008-03-30 01:22:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Freides
A lot of school instruction is group instruction, and it's much harder
to teach polyphonic instruments in a group setting
Not at all, it is done successfully all of the time.
Post by Steve Freides
And, of course, what Kevin says is true - it's outside the mainstream
The double edged sword here is that the guitar is the single most
popular instrument among young people. what an opportunity to attract
young people to art music and through the use of the gutar is a
'classical' setting. The potential is amazing.
ktaylor
2008-03-30 03:57:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Learnwell
Post by Steve Freides
A lot of school instruction is group instruction, and it's much harder
to teach polyphonic instruments in a group setting
Not at all, it is done successfully all of the time.
I agree. I've seen it. I've done it. But I've also seen it done not
very successfully. And I've not done it successfully before, also. And
I've also seen situations where the teachers claimed it was successful
but I would not have the same perception.
Post by Learnwell
Post by Steve Freides
And, of course, what Kevin says is true - it's outside the mainstream
The double edged sword here is that the guitar is the single most
popular instrument among young people. what an opportunity to attract
young people to art music and through the use of the gutar is a
'classical' setting. The potential is amazing.
Agreed the potential is amazing, for the reasons you state. But it is
not true that the guitar is the single most popular instrument among
young people. We've done at least 4 surveys to that end (as well as
NAMM) and none say guitar is the instrument most preferenced to play.

Kevin Taylor, Pres.
Childbloom Inc.
h***@verizon.net
2008-03-30 04:08:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by ktaylor
Post by Learnwell
Post by Steve Freides
A lot of school instruction is group instruction, and it's much harder
to teach polyphonic instruments in a group setting
Not at all, it is done successfully all of the time.
I agree. I've seen it. I've done it. But I've also seen it done not
very successfully. And I've not done it successfully before, also. And
I've also seen situations where the teachers claimed it was successful
but I would not have the same perception.
Post by Learnwell
Post by Steve Freides
And, of course, what Kevin says is true - it's outside the mainstream
The double edged sword here is that the guitar is the single most
popular instrument among young people. what an opportunity to attract
young people to art music and through the use of the gutar is a
'classical' setting. The potential is amazing.
Agreed the potential is amazing, for the reasons you state. But it is
not true that the guitar is the single most popular instrument among
young people. We've done at least 4 surveys to that end (as well as
NAMM) and none say guitar is the instrument most preferenced to play.
Kevin Taylor, Pres.
Childbloom Inc.
An interesting survey! What is the most preferred instrument for
those surveyed to play?

Seth
ktaylor
2008-03-30 15:06:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@verizon.net
Post by ktaylor
Post by Learnwell
Post by Steve Freides
A lot of school instruction is group instruction, and it's much harder
to teach polyphonic instruments in a group setting
Not at all, it is done successfully all of the time.
I agree. I've seen it. I've done it. But I've also seen it done not
very successfully. And I've not done it successfully before, also. And
I've also seen situations where the teachers claimed it was successful
but I would not have the same perception.
Post by Learnwell
Post by Steve Freides
And, of course, what Kevin says is true - it's outside the mainstream
The double edged sword here is that the guitar is the single most
popular instrument among young people. what an opportunity to attract
young people to art music and through the use of the gutar is a
'classical' setting. The potential is amazing.
Agreed the potential is amazing, for the reasons you state. But it is
not true that the guitar is the single most popular instrument among
young people. We've done at least 4 surveys to that end (as well as
NAMM) and none say guitar is the instrument most preferenced to play.
Kevin Taylor, Pres.
Childbloom Inc.
An interesting survey! What is the most preferred instrument for
those surveyed to play?
Seth
Namm had surveyed teenagers in the 80's. The Childbloom Co. has done
four. Piano, everytime.

Kevin

KT
l***@deack.net
2008-03-30 15:44:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by ktaylor
Namm had surveyed teenagers in the 80's. The Childbloom Co. has done
four. Piano, everytime.
Kevin
How many self taught piano compared to self taught guitar?

I bet the survey results for the general public would differ from
any surveys of people who have had lessons. I also bet more people
read notes on piano than on guitar and fewer play piano by ear than
play by notes.
ktaylor
2008-03-30 16:03:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@deack.net