Discussion:
Essay on Bach Cello Suites
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c***@yahoo.com
2013-10-23 15:01:58 UTC
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Interesting stuff:http://www.cello.org/Newsletter/Articles/angst.htm
Steve Freides
2013-10-23 15:33:10 UTC
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Post by c***@yahoo.com
Interesting stuff:http://www.cello.org/Newsletter/Articles/angst.htm
Good stuff - I couldn't click on your link above, hopefully this one
works a little better.

http://www.cello.org/Newsletter/Articles/angst.htm

-S-
David Raleigh Arnold
2013-10-23 20:24:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Interesting stuff:http://www.cello.org/Newsletter/Articles/angst.htm
The guitar is not a cello. The 6-string guitar was basically a
19th century romantic instrument and it hasn't changed much since.
The problems of style are less significant in interpreting the
cello suites than the decision whether or not to play them as if
they were orchestral music. I vote for the orchestra, and some
Baroque musicians and composers would have too, if they had
guitars to play on. The article treats the arpeggiation of chords
as a matter of baroque style, but it is clearly no less a romantic
style and a necessity of the bowed strings, and therefore,
conclusively, not a matter of style at all. The baroque musician
and the romantic musician faced the same issue, and neither could
claim it as a matter of period style.

Slurs and phrase marks are usually interpreted in what is
described as the baroque manner even up to the present day, but
especially through the first half of the 19th century, playing all
kinds of music.

In some cases the notion of conflict between authentic vs. romantic
interpretation doesn't withstand close examination IMO. You have
to look at one issue at a time, and since the guitar as we know
it did not exist in the Baroque, there is no comparison and no
standard for comparison for many issues.

So if it sounds better, it is better. Regards, Rale
--
For All Guitar Beginners: The pages of very easy solos missing
from all of the published guitar methods of others.
For All Guitarists: solos, duets, and peerless guitar exercises
David Raleigh Arnold http://www.openguitar.com
thomas
2013-10-24 00:50:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Interesting stuff:http://www.cello.org/Newsletter/Articles/angst.htm
The guitar is not a cello. The 6-string guitar was basically a
19th century romantic instrument and it hasn't changed much since.
The problems of style are less significant in interpreting the
cello suites than the decision whether or not to play them as if
they were orchestral music. I vote for the orchestra, and some
Baroque musicians and composers would have too, if they had
guitars to play on. The article treats the arpeggiation of chords
as a matter of baroque style, but it is clearly no less a romantic
style and a necessity of the bowed strings, and therefore,
conclusively, not a matter of style at all. The baroque musician
and the romantic musician faced the same issue, and neither could
claim it as a matter of period style.
Slurs and phrase marks are usually interpreted in what is
described as the baroque manner even up to the present day, but
especially through the first half of the 19th century, playing all
kinds of music.
In some cases the notion of conflict between authentic vs. romantic
interpretation doesn't withstand close examination IMO. You have
to look at one issue at a time, and since the guitar as we know
it did not exist in the Baroque, there is no comparison and no
standard for comparison for many issues.
So if it sounds better, it is better. Regards, Rale
--
For All Guitar Beginners: The pages of very easy solos missing
from all of the published guitar methods of others.
For All Guitarists: solos, duets, and peerless guitar exercises
David Raleigh Arnold http://www.openguitar.com
The Bach cello suites sound a thousand percent better on cello than guitar. No one denies this.
David Raleigh Arnold
2013-10-24 17:10:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by thomas
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Interesting stuff:http://www.cello.org/Newsletter/Articles/angst.htm
The guitar is not a cello. The 6-string guitar was basically a
19th century romantic instrument and it hasn't changed much since.
The problems of style are less significant in interpreting the
cello suites than the decision whether or not to play them as if
they were orchestral music. I vote for the orchestra, and some
Baroque musicians and composers would have too, if they had
guitars to play on. The article treats the arpeggiation of chords
as a matter of baroque style, but it is clearly no less a romantic
style and a necessity of the bowed strings, and therefore,
conclusively, not a matter of style at all. The baroque musician
and the romantic musician faced the same issue, and neither could
claim it as a matter of period style.
Slurs and phrase marks are usually interpreted in what is
described as the baroque manner even up to the present day, but
especially through the first half of the 19th century, playing all
kinds of music.
In some cases the notion of conflict between authentic vs. romantic
interpretation doesn't withstand close examination IMO. You have
to look at one issue at a time, and since the guitar as we know
it did not exist in the Baroque, there is no comparison and no
standard for comparison for many issues.
So if it sounds better, it is better. Regards, Rale
--
For All Guitar Beginners: The pages of very easy solos missing
from all of the published guitar methods of others.
For All Guitarists: solos, duets, and peerless guitar exercises
David Raleigh Arnold http://www.openguitar.com
The Bach cello suites sound a thousand percent better on cello than
guitar. No one denies this.
I do. Bach did not have the option of writing for our instrument
because it did not exist. We are creatures of our era, but not
prisoners of it. Regards, Rale
--
For All Guitar Beginners: The pages of very easy solos missing
from all of the published guitar methods of others.
For All Guitarists: solos, duets, and peerless guitar exercises
David Raleigh Arnold http://www.openguitar.com
Andrew Schulman
2013-10-24 17:17:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Post by thomas
The Bach cello suites sound a thousand percent better on cello than
guitar. No one denies this.
I do. Bach did not have the option of writing for our instrument
because it did not exist. We are creatures of our era, but not
prisoners of it. Regards, Rale
The Bach cello suites can sound better on the guitar than on the cello. Depends on the guitar and guitarist.

I was just talking to a friend about this the other day, a great guitar player, and we noted that cellists we've met over the years, professionals at that, have been irritable about this fact.

Andrew
dsi1
2013-10-24 17:40:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Schulman
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Post by thomas
The Bach cello suites sound a thousand percent better on cello than
guitar. No one denies this.
I do. Bach did not have the option of writing for our instrument
because it did not exist. We are creatures of our era, but not
prisoners of it. Regards, Rale
The Bach cello suites can sound better on the guitar than on the cello. Depends on the guitar and guitarist.
I was just talking to a friend about this the other day, a great guitar player, and we noted that cellists we've met over the years, professionals at that, have been irritable about this fact.
Andrew
The possibility exists that you guys might be a little bit biased. A
poll of 100 piano players might be a little more revealing. OTOH,
pianists might favor the cello over the guitar simply because they're
called "cello suites." Maybe they'd think the suites sound best on the
piano. Regular folks would probably favor the guitar because who the
hell listens to cello music these days? I propose that we poll 50 cats
and 50 cows to answer the question once and for all. I don't know...
hook up some wires to their brains or something...
David Raleigh Arnold
2013-10-25 17:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by dsi1
Post by Andrew Schulman
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Post by thomas
The Bach cello suites sound a thousand percent better on cello than
guitar. No one denies this.
I do. Bach did not have the option of writing for our instrument
because it did not exist. We are creatures of our era, but not
prisoners of it. Regards, Rale
The Bach cello suites can sound better on the guitar than on the cello.
Depends on the guitar and guitarist.
I was just talking to a friend about this the other day, a great guitar
player, and we noted that cellists we've met over the years,
professionals at that, have been irritable about this fact.
Andrew
The possibility exists that you guys might be a little bit biased.
I utterly fail to see how disagreeing with the proposition that
the subject suites are 1000 pct better on the cello than on a guitar
might be biased to any degree. That's as far as I went, because
I saw that further discussion would be useless and futile.


A
Post by dsi1
poll of 100 piano players might be a little more revealing.
of what?

Regards, Rale
--
For All Guitar Beginners: The pages of very easy solos missing
from all of the published guitar methods of others.
For All Guitarists: solos, duets, and peerless guitar exercises
David Raleigh Arnold http://www.openguitar.com
dsi1
2013-10-26 22:53:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Post by dsi1
Post by Andrew Schulman
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Post by thomas
The Bach cello suites sound a thousand percent better on cello than
guitar. No one denies this.
I do. Bach did not have the option of writing for our instrument
because it did not exist. We are creatures of our era, but not
prisoners of it. Regards, Rale
The Bach cello suites can sound better on the guitar than on the cello.
Depends on the guitar and guitarist.
I was just talking to a friend about this the other day, a great guitar
player, and we noted that cellists we've met over the years,
professionals at that, have been irritable about this fact.
Andrew
The possibility exists that you guys might be a little bit biased.
I utterly fail to see how disagreeing with the proposition that
the subject suites are 1000 pct better on the cello than on a guitar
might be biased to any degree. That's as far as I went, because
I saw that further discussion would be useless and futile.
Most people fail to see their own biases. Saying that the suites sound
1000% better on a cello than a guitar does not mean you're unbiased. It
could, however, mean that you're a hyperbolic contrarian.
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
A
Post by dsi1
poll of 100 piano players might be a little more revealing.
of what?
Regards, Rale
Andrew Schulman
2013-10-26 03:41:35 UTC
Permalink
The possibility exists that you guys might be a little bit biased…
That's simply not possible.

Andrew
dsi1
2013-10-26 22:56:10 UTC
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Post by Andrew Schulman
The possibility exists that you guys might be a little bit biased…
That's simply not possible.
Andrew
Fie on that, I say, sir! I reject your pandering sarcasm with respect to
my sarcastic pandering.
Andrew Schulman
2013-10-27 04:58:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by dsi1
Fie on that, I say, sir! I reject your pandering sarcasm with respect to
my sarcastic pandering.
Fou or fie, same difference.

Wait...you were being sarcastic!?!
dsi1
2013-10-27 22:27:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Schulman
Post by dsi1
Fie on that, I say, sir! I reject your pandering sarcasm with respect to
my sarcastic pandering.
Fou or fie, same difference.
Wait...you were being sarcastic!?!
Yes ANDREW. It's practically the only mode that can operate in on this
newsgroup. God have mercy upon my soul.
Andrew Schulman
2013-10-27 22:52:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by dsi1
Post by Andrew Schulman
Wait...you were being sarcastic!?!
Yes ANDREW. It's practically the only mode that can operate in on this
newsgroup. God have mercy upon my soul.
At least you do a great job.
dsi2
2013-10-27 22:47:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Schulman
Post by dsi1
Fie on that, I say, sir! I reject your pandering sarcasm with respect to
my sarcastic pandering.
Fou or fie, same difference.
Wait...you were being sarcastic!?!
Please excuse my brother's bad behavior, Andrew. Actually, you don't
have to excuse him at all. Everybody in our family knows what a dick he
is and will have nothing to do with him. Don't fall for his anecdotes
and crazy tales either. He's been hearing these "voices" since high
school and that has caused our family much grief and anxiety. He is no
longer able to distinguish between real life and fantasy. Our nickname
for him is "Mr Mitty." The strongest anti-psychotic drugs have had as
much effect on his brain as water on duck feathers. OTOH, even if we
could get the voices to stop, he'd still be a complete dick. My
recommendation is that you killfile the bastard as soon as possible!
Please excuse my French.