Post by Roman Turovsky Post by Richard F. Sayage
This is also a prime example of how no one answers a question. See
topic above. Simple.
Regardless, the question has been answered. The allemande as it stands
now is correctly notated for the guitar. Thank you all.
Not quite. The answer is YOU CANNOT NOTATE THIS FOR GUITAR ADEQUATELY.
Removal of those details bastardizes the content of SLW's music.
Why on earth did you assign the g-note in the 3rd bar to the upper voice
while it clearly belongs to the inner????
Sure you can Roman, just not to the standards of the lutenist. What
details...the doubling of courses, the unisons, the 7th double stops, etc?
Most times, these are not possible for the guitarist....why would I try?
Uhoh, can't get the unison, the project is busted??? hehehe...no...I don't
Regardless, "bastardization" of the music is a bit strong, imo.
Transcript work for any instrument to another implies a bit of
compromise...almost always! There's no getting away from that simple fact.
But, I have to refer to my original statement in this thread regarding this
music. "....a "rendition" for the classical guitarist is only supposed to
be that, not a replacement for the original or the original instrument. I
wouldn't want or have lute players perform these copies and neither would
they want to do so. I understand that perfectly."
Why this is a difficulty is not readily apparent, unless, haha...you are
a lutenist! As I adjust my editing choices, the music will be better
represented for the guitarist, holding as true as possible to the original,
given the guitar's limitations. This is an important distinction, one that
has to be accepted before proceeding, whether to work it or criticize it.
It is simply an opportunity for the guitarist to play some truly
wonderful music that would not be available to them otherwise, in a concise,
organized, complete Sonata form as written by the composer (versus piece
meal nonsense, which is mostly wrong, that is available to the guitarist in
various compendiums) and that which is guitar-specific regarding
The fact that Weiss wrote some of the most naturally flowing and
sometimes experimentally so music for his time cannot be taken away from any
instrument, especially the guitar. The beauty of it is that tunings can be
adjusted for the more knowledgeable guitarist, the addition of 2 to 4
courses above the guitar allow for deeper voices, given the natural tuning
plus the D, C, B, A of the lower strings, and so on. Still, it is not truly
"authentic", but it comes damned close and that's the point.
The point is, that, for instance, if Andrew Schulman, an 8 string guitar
specialist, were to request a copy of one of the sonatas, specific for his
instrument, I could adjust the score in a half hour to accommodate his 8
strings, and I would bet that it would sound gotdam good. Like Barto or
Hopkinson-Smith? No. Like Andrew? Yes!
As for the upper/inner voice "point", I saw that (at the time) and made
a choice for the guitarist. It actually would ring true regardless, but
you're correct, that should be to the inner voice. I'm tired and need rest,
on many fronts, this discussion, one in which I have tried to be open and
constructive within, being one of them. My editing chores for the previous
nine sonatas, including XI London MS (the one referenced in this thread),
begins in earnest tomorrow after a 2 day rest. I should be done by the New
Year. All other projects are put on hold as of tomorrow. This time of year
seems to be the time when I do this kind of thing, editing and such.
I will also offer free replacements to any and all buyers of my previous
Weiss publications that have been purchased prior to my upcoming re-edit.
My fault from the beginning; and that is my burden to bear on all
fronts. But, the end result will be fantastic. It is an enormous amount of
work and expense that I'm bound to do and give regarding my absolute
commitment to getting it balls on right for the YES....the
guitarist....hehehe, not the lutenist. That's your job and all other
Richard F. Sayage
Savage Classical GT
Bay Shore, NY 11706
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Richard F. Sayage Post by Richard Yates Post by Roman Turovsky
This is a prime example of how little of lute idiom is transferable to
Agreed, at least about Weiss. So much of what is essential in his music is
so inextricably enmeshed with the tuning of the Baroque lute that the
similarities of lute and guitar become almost superficial. Too much ends
Post by Richard Yates
lost in transcription.