Discussion:
baroque guitar
(too old to reply)
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-24 16:01:27 UTC
Permalink
I am honestly awestruck by my friend Paulo Galvao's latest piece written for
baroque guitar. Judge for yourselves.
RT
www.musicaliaportugal.com/intro_arpeggio.mp3
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-24 21:18:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
I am honestly awestruck by my friend Paulo Galvao's latest piece written for
baroque guitar. Judge for yourselves.
RT
http://www.musicaliaportugal.com/intro_arpeggio.mp3
Very melancholic & beautiful, where can one buy the sheet music?
Paulo is working on the PDF. I doubt he'd ask for money, so it would be
posted both on polyhymnion and musicalia sites.
I didn't see it listed on the site or maybe I missed it.
It is too new for that.
Thanks for posting the MIDI.
A mere duty...
I personally think Paulo Galvao is a MAJOR composer both as a baroque one
(better than Sanz/Murcia/Gverav) as well as an avantgardist. I will
reprocess all his midi files on http://polyhymnion.org/adc in Timidity using
lute sound patch, so they would have a more realistic sound, in the next few
days.
Admittedly, I am not a guitar fan and have never played one, but after
hearing Paulo's music and after having collaborated with him on two pieces I
am sorely tested to change my mind and get a 5-course instrument.
RT
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-24 23:35:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
I am honestly awestruck by my friend Paulo Galvao's latest piece written for
baroque guitar. Judge for yourselves.
RT
http://www.musicaliaportugal.com/intro_arpeggio.mp3
Very melancholic & beautiful, where can one buy the sheet music?
I didn't see it listed on the site or maybe I missed it.
Thanks for posting the MIDI.
snoops
http://www.musicaliaportugal.com/gc/partituras/partituras.html
Paulo
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-25 00:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
I am honestly awestruck by my friend Paulo Galvao's latest piece written for
baroque guitar. Judge for yourselves.
Thank you Roman, for publicly revealing the extent of your miserly
knowledge of the repertoire of the guitar. If you are awestruck by
this, obviously you have never seen or heard much of what's available
to us. Another e minor banality, as if Kent Murdick's transcription of
the Sor b minor was not enough.

Like I told you before, durak ty byl i tvoi shutki tozhe duratskie.


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-25 00:50:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Roman Turovsky
I am honestly awestruck by my friend Paulo Galvao's latest piece written for
baroque guitar. Judge for yourselves.
Thank you Roman, for publicly revealing the extent of your miserly
knowledge of the repertoire of the guitar.
I know NOTHING on the subject.
That's perfectly obvious. (see below).
Post by Matanya Ophee
If you are awestruck by
this, obviously you have never seen or heard much of what's available
to us. Another e minor banality, as if Kent Murdick's transcription of
the Sor b minor was not enough.
I have NO IDEA if and/or how banal it may be, even after making a lute
version ( http://polyhymnion.org/swv/opus-2.html ). I like music, and make
it occasionally.
So does Brittney Spears... and she is better looking than you I am
sure..
Post by Matanya Ophee
Like I told you before, durak ty byl i tvoi shutki tozhe duratskie.
And you have musical sensitivity of Siberian felt boot (tupoj kak sibirskij
valenok).
Since you admitted above that you know NOTHING on the subject, the
subject being the repertoire of the guitar, you are not in position to
make a judgement on the musical sensitivity of any guitarist,
particularly some one like myself who have been providing guitarists,
and some lutenists too, with their repertoire for the last 25 years.

You are out of your element here. Go back to the lute list and bother
those who still put up with your shenanigans.



Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-25 01:21:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Roman Turovsky
I am honestly awestruck by my friend Paulo Galvao's latest piece written for
baroque guitar. Judge for yourselves.
Thank you Roman, for publicly revealing the extent of your miserly
knowledge of the repertoire of the guitar.
I know NOTHING on the subject.
That's perfectly obvious. (see below).
So what? You know nothing about lutes but it never stopped you from making
an ass of yourself on the lutelist.
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Matanya Ophee
If you are awestruck by
this, obviously you have never seen or heard much of what's available
to us. Another e minor banality, as if Kent Murdick's transcription of
the Sor b minor was not enough.
I have NO IDEA if and/or how banal it may be, even after making a lute
version ( http://polyhymnion.org/swv/opus-2.html ). I like music, and make
it occasionally.
So does Brittney Spears... and she is better looking than you I am
sure..
I have no idea who she is.
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Matanya Ophee
Like I told you before, durak ty byl i tvoi shutki tozhe duratskie.
And you have musical sensitivity of Siberian felt boot (tupoj kak sibirskij
valenok).
Since you admitted above that you know NOTHING on the subject, the
subject being the repertoire of the guitar, you are not in position to
make a judgement on the musical sensitivity of any guitarist,
Are you one? No one thinks so.
Post by Matanya Ophee
particularly some one like myself who have been providing guitarists,
and some lutenists too, with their repertoire for the last 25 years.
Providing? Use the dictionary.
Post by Matanya Ophee
You are out of your element here. Go back to the lute list and bother
those who still put up with your shenanigans.
Are these the best arguments of student of Boulanger?
RT
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-25 04:15:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Roman Turovsky
I am honestly awestruck by my friend Paulo Galvao's latest piece written for
baroque guitar. Judge for yourselves.
Thank you Roman, for publicly revealing the extent of your miserly
knowledge of the repertoire of the guitar.
I know NOTHING on the subject.
That's perfectly obvious. (see below).
So what? You know nothing about lutes but it never stopped you from making
an ass of yourself on the lutelist.
So this is the rational for your appearance here? to make yourself an
ass? if that is the case, you are doing a great job. Besides, with
very few exceptions, most people here do not read the lute list, so
there is no sense of making here a pissing match who makes himself a
bigger ass _over there_. It's over _here_ that counts.
I am not here to piss a pisser. I am informing this list about I piece of
music that I consider beautiful, and your "clout" won't influence people who
have a mind of their own. Your trashing of this piece is a good thing. See
below.
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
Since you admitted above that you know NOTHING on the subject, the
subject being the repertoire of the guitar, you are not in position to
make a judgement on the musical sensitivity of any guitarist,
Are you one? No one thinks so.
Yes, my friend. I am one, no matter who thinks what. Obviously, you
have no idea who reads this list and what every single one of them
thinks. Actually, there are some people on this list who have heard me
play the guitar. Quite recently. While I may not be a virtuoso player,
but the more than 150 editions of guitar music I prepared for
publication, containing hundreds of pieces of guitar music, are
testimony enough as to my qualifications as a guitarist. By your own
testimony, you have none. You can't even tell the difference between a
classical guitar and a baroque guitar.
I certainly can. Even with my limited familiarity with post-1750 repertoire.
And even if I used a part of PG's unedited description of the piece to a
misleading result: You wouldn't argue that there were no 6 course guitars
pre-1750, would you?
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
particularly some one like myself who have been providing guitarists,
and some lutenists too, with their repertoire for the last 25 years.
Providing? Use the dictionary.
Damn right. Providing, making available, discovering, bringing out.
Many of the things I published are now part and parcel of the general
repertoire of the guitar. Many of the composers I brought out of
obscurity, de Fossa, Lhoyer, Regondi, Shand, Bobrowicz, Schulz,
Sychra,
Blessed are the lands that bore these giants.
are now being performed and recorded by the greatest
guitarists of our time, and by thousands of amateurs and countless
numbers of students. I am not alone on this field. There are others
who are just as active as myself, and there is no need for me to
mention their names, since everybody here in this NG knows who they
are. You don't. And you know why? because you are just a hapless
bumbler who hasn't a clue about music.
None at all. You got that right.....
You make a good show among
lutenists,
Not only lutenists. Actually the most fan-mail I get comes from composers.
And a couple of sizeable CG figures. Some of them are listed [and quoted
verbatim] in
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/comments.html
See for yourselves, MO is included there too.
some of whom think that you are really something special,
but with friends like them, you don't need enemies.
Why not? You are a perfect enemy. You are sufficiently intelligent, but not
too deep, decently informed, but rather uncultured, and extremely
uncreative. Your bile lends just enough weight to the object of your
invective. Inconsequential things do not merit bile. So you deserve
considerable gratitude of sorts.
In a word, you are
nothing more than a khalturshchik. Now I really need a dictionary to
be able to explain to the good folks around here who you are...
The word means "someone with (or a seeker of) an easy, undemanding job; a
slacker"
Provenance: medieval Latin for a monastery librarian, who was considered a
slacker by fellow monks.
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
You are out of your element here. Go back to the lute list and bother
those who still put up with your shenanigans.
Are these the best arguments of student of Boulanger?
Huh?
Hmmmmmmmm........
Will be back to announce the completion of Paulo Galvao's site.
RT
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-25 10:06:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
I am not here to piss a pisser. I am informing this list about I piece of
music that I consider beautiful, and your "clout" won't influence people who
have a mind of their own. Your trashing of this piece is a good thing.
It is not the piece itself I am trashing. The first thing I said about
it was that it was a nice pastiche. What I am trashing, and will
continue to do so, is the phoney pretense under which it was presented
to this group, as if it belongs to a fake manuscript by a non-existent
composer named Antonio da Costa (which is Portuguese for Joe Blow,
Fred Blogue or Vasili Tiutkin). As for the actual quality of the
piece, that is a matter of personal taste. If you are awestruck by
it, which is your right to be awestruck, that's your problem. I am
not. I have seen hundreds of similar pieces in e minor, and I have
even published some such. See Ivanov-Kramskoi's Sad Mood in Vol. VII
of the Russian Collection. This e minor thing has become such a corny
cliche in guitar music, that even an occasional dissonance is not
going remedy. If you were awestruck by this sophomoric exercise, you
ought to be down right paralyzed with fear when you finally discover
the e minor masterpieces by Sor, Giuliani, Aguado, Carulli, not to
mention Villa-Lobos.
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
Since you admitted above that you know NOTHING on the subject, the
subject being the repertoire of the guitar, you are not in position to
make a judgement on the musical sensitivity of any guitarist,
Are you one? No one thinks so.
Yes, my friend. I am one, no matter who thinks what. Obviously, you
have no idea who reads this list and what every single one of them
thinks. Actually, there are some people on this list who have heard me
play the guitar. Quite recently. While I may not be a virtuoso player,
but the more than 150 editions of guitar music I prepared for
publication, containing hundreds of pieces of guitar music, are
testimony enough as to my qualifications as a guitarist. By your own
testimony, you have none. You can't even tell the difference between a
classical guitar and a baroque guitar.
I certainly can. Even with my limited familiarity with post-1750 repertoire.
And even if I used a part of PG's unedited description of the piece to a
misleading result: You wouldn't argue that there were no 6 course guitars
pre-1750, would you?
Of course I would. The very first tutor for the guitar in pitch
notation, by one Don***, is datable to 1758. It is for the five course
guitar. But the _text_ inside speaks about single strung,
double-strung, and triple strung guitars in Spain with as many as 9
courses. And of course, no matter the nomenclature, six-course fretted
plucked instruments with a figure 8 body have existed all over Europe
from at least a couple of centuries _before_ 1750. Sometimes they were
called vihuelas, sometimes they were called vandolas, sometimes they
were called cetras. With different tunings, they all amounted to the
same damn thing as a 12-string guitar.
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
particularly some one like myself who have been providing guitarists,
and some lutenists too, with their repertoire for the last 25 years.
Providing? Use the dictionary.
Damn right. Providing, making available, discovering, bringing out.
Many of the things I published are now part and parcel of the general
repertoire of the guitar. Many of the composers I brought out of
obscurity, de Fossa, Lhoyer, Regondi, Shand, Bobrowicz, Schulz,
Sychra,
Blessed are the lands that bore these giants.
Now, if you are really interested in the guitar's repertoire, you can
familiarize yourself with the music of these giants. But that will be
tough. You will have to actually _buy_ the music, and to make things
worse for you, you will have to buy _my_ editions of it. I'll be happy
to take your money, directly or indirectly...:-)
Post by Roman Turovsky
are now being performed and recorded by the greatest
guitarists of our time, and by thousands of amateurs and countless
numbers of students. I am not alone on this field. There are others
who are just as active as myself, and there is no need for me to
mention their names, since everybody here in this NG knows who they
are. You don't. And you know why? because you are just a hapless
bumbler who hasn't a clue about music.
None at all. You got that right.....
You make a good show among
lutenists,
Not only lutenists. Actually the most fan-mail I get comes from composers.
And a couple of sizeable CG figures. Some of them are listed [and quoted
verbatim] in
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/comments.html
See for yourselves, MO is included there too.
Which only proves the point that you have been very successful in
snaring a bunch of innocents, and some people who should have known
better than to give you these quotables.
Post by Roman Turovsky
some of whom think that you are really something special,
but with friends like them, you don't need enemies.
Why not? You are a perfect enemy. You are sufficiently intelligent, but not
too deep, decently informed, but rather uncultured, and extremely
uncreative. Your bile lends just enough weight to the object of your
invective. Inconsequential things do not merit bile.
Thank you for confirming my judgement of this piece.
Post by Roman Turovsky
In a word, you are
nothing more than a khalturshchik. Now I really need a dictionary to
be able to explain to the good folks around here who you are...
The word means "someone with (or a seeker of) an easy, undemanding job; a
slacker"
That's one meaning. In actual parlance it means one who creates a
khaltura, i.e., a piece of non-professional crap.




Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-25 11:34:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
It is not the piece itself I am trashing. The first thing I said about
it was that it was a nice pastiche.
Look up PASTICHE in the dictionary. The piece in question is a original
music, with Potruguese inflection of its author. There are no stylistic
anachronisms to qualify it as a pastiche.
RT
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-25 12:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
It is not the piece itself I am trashing. The first thing I said about
it was that it was a nice pastiche.
Look up PASTICHE in the dictionary. The piece in question is a original
music, with Potruguese inflection of its author. There are no stylistic
anachronisms to qualify it as a pastiche.
Thank you, once again, for demonstrating the extent of your ignorance
in musical matters. Since you have no knowledge of the repertoire of
the guitar, and said so yourself, you have no way of knowing of the
hundreds of similar etudes in e minor. Mister Galvao may think that
this is somehow a Portuguese inflection, and he is entitled to his
convictions, but this is the kind of texture that has become, I'll say
this once again, a corny cliche that contemporary composers, real
ones, avoid like the plague. And inflections can be misleading,
eclectic and derivative, just like that other e minor masterpiece
called Spanish Romanza which, as you must know, is a Ukrainian folk
song called nich iaka misiatsa. And the very Brazilian inflections of
Villa-Lobos Etude No. 1, can be found in the 1817 Concert Etude No. 3
by Andrei Sychra. So what else is new?

Oh yes. A young Portuguese composer is being touted as a great genius
by a khalturshchik who hasn't a clue about the guitar's repertoire. I
am sorry to punch a hole in your windbag, but perhaps Mr. Galvao would
learn to understand that in order to win the hearts and minds of
classical guitarists, he has to acquaint himself with the repertoire
of the guitar, and find himself a promoter who at least knows
something about it, without resorting to the AdC fakery.


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-25 13:32:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
called Spanish Romanza which, as you must know, is a Ukrainian folk
song called nich iaka misiatsa.
It has an author, BTW.
RT
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-25 12:11:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
It is not the piece itself I am trashing. The first thing I said about
it was that it was a nice pastiche. What I am trashing, and will
continue to do so, is the phoney pretense under which it was presented
to this group, as if it belongs to a fake manuscript by a non-existent
composer named Antonio da Costa (which is Portuguese for Joe Blow,
Fred Blogue or Vasili Tiutkin).
I guess you have never seen the score or the page where it is posted [and
haven't read the original posting]. It was never presented as AdC, nor as
any part of any Ms.
Speaking of the former: one of them also known as "Antonio da Costa"
www.musicaliaportugal.com/intro_arpeggio.mp3
This is well below your own standard of nitpicking.
Speaks for itself.




Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-25 12:29:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
It is not the piece itself I am trashing. The first thing I said about
it was that it was a nice pastiche. What I am trashing, and will
continue to do so, is the phoney pretense under which it was presented
to this group, as if it belongs to a fake manuscript by a non-existent
composer named Antonio da Costa (which is Portuguese for Joe Blow,
Fred Blogue or Vasili Tiutkin).
I guess you have never seen the score or the page where it is posted [and
haven't read the original posting]. It was never presented as AdC, nor as
any part of any Ms.
Speaking of the former: one of them also known as "Antonio da Costa"
www.musicaliaportugal.com/intro_arpeggio.mp3
Don't be such a Low[Joe]Blow....
The complete quote is:
"I collect friends, intelligent ones, more concerned with musical quality
than labels, not "suckers".
Speaking of the former: one of them also known as "Antonio da Costa"
of http://polyhymnion.org/adc also has just offered this...."
RT
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-25 12:47:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
I guess you have never seen the score or the page where it is posted [and
haven't read the original posting]. It was never presented as AdC, nor as
any part of any Ms.
Speaking of the former: one of them also known as "Antonio da Costa"
www.musicaliaportugal.com/intro_arpeggio.mp3
Don't be such a Low[Joe]Blow....
"I collect friends, intelligent ones, more concerned with musical quality
than labels, not "suckers".
Speaking of the former: one of them also known as "Antonio da Costa"
of http://polyhymnion.org/adc also has just offered this...."
Thank you. Confirms exactly what I said: that you have presented this
is as a work by Antonio da Costa. And actually, I did see the music. I
even printed it out, and played through it myself. As I said before,
Mr. Galvao quite clearly does not have a clue on how to notate guitar
music. Some remedial reading of the current literature, mainly by
editors such as Stanley Yates, Richard Yates, Frederick Zigante, Frank
Koonce, John McCormick, Peter Segal, Erik Stenstadvold, Angelo
Gilardino, John Hall, Nikita Koshkin, Mark Delpriora, Matanya Ophee,
to name a few, would help him tremendously. Even an intermediate level
arrangement like Will Clinger's Shenandoa displays a lot more
professionalism and understanding of guitar notation than this
sophomoric engraving, perhaps a mechanical transcription from
tablature. This needs to be cooked and spiced and cleaned up, using
current notational conventions. Then we might be ready to deal with
it's musical content, if any.



Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-25 13:18:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Roman Turovsky
I guess you have never seen the score or the page where it is posted [and
haven't read the original posting]. It was never presented as AdC, nor as
any part of any Ms.
Speaking of the former: one of them also known as "Antonio da Costa"
www.musicaliaportugal.com/intro_arpeggio.mp3
Don't be such a Low[Joe]Blow....
"I collect friends, intelligent ones, more concerned with musical quality
than labels, not "suckers".
Speaking of the former: one of them also known as "Antonio da Costa"
of http://polyhymnion.org/adc also has just offered this...."
Thank you. Confirms exactly what I said: that you have presented this
is as a work by Antonio da Costa.
MO, this is not helping your case, read again....
RT
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-25 13:20:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
sophomoric engraving, perhaps a mechanical transcription from
tablature. This needs to be cooked and spiced and cleaned up, using
current notational conventions. Then we might be ready to deal with
it's musical content, if any.
Any of what?
RT
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-25 13:23:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
is as a work by Antonio da Costa. And actually, I did see the music. I
even printed it out, and played through it myself. As I said before,
Mr. Galvao quite clearly does not have a clue on how to notate guitar
music. Some remedial reading of the current literature, mainly by
editors such as Stanley Yates, Richard Yates, Frederick Zigante, Frank
Koonce, John McCormick, Peter Segal, Erik Stenstadvold, Angelo
Gilardino, John Hall, Nikita Koshkin, Mark Delpriora, Matanya Ophee,
to name a few, would help him tremendously.
I rather doubt it. Excessive erudition is VERY counterproductive to artists
in general, and composers in particular. And you, MO, is a prime example.
RT
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-25 13:42:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
is as a work by Antonio da Costa. And actually, I did see the music. I
even printed it out, and played through it myself. As I said before,
Mr. Galvao quite clearly does not have a clue on how to notate guitar
music. Some remedial reading of the current literature, mainly by
editors such as Stanley Yates, Richard Yates, Frederick Zigante, Frank
Koonce, John McCormick, Peter Segal, Erik Stenstadvold, Angelo
Gilardino, John Hall, Nikita Koshkin, Mark Delpriora, Matanya Ophee,
to name a few, would help him tremendously.
I rather doubt it. Excessive erudition is VERY counterproductive to artists
in general, and composers in particular. And you, MO, is a prime example.
You are switching the subject. It is not question of erudition, but a
question of notational conventions. Composers who are incapable of
writing music in a way others can use it, are shooting themselves in
the foot, however inspired the music may be. Of course you have to
switch the subject, because you know nothing about guitar notation.
You are not doing your friend Galvao any favors by encouraging him to
notate his music in this idiotic manner.


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-25 14:16:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
is as a work by Antonio da Costa. And actually, I did see the music. I
even printed it out, and played through it myself. As I said before,
Mr. Galvao quite clearly does not have a clue on how to notate guitar
music. Some remedial reading of the current literature, mainly by
editors such as Stanley Yates, Richard Yates, Frederick Zigante, Frank
Koonce, John McCormick, Peter Segal, Erik Stenstadvold, Angelo
Gilardino, John Hall, Nikita Koshkin, Mark Delpriora, Matanya Ophee,
to name a few, would help him tremendously.
I rather doubt it. Excessive erudition is VERY counterproductive to artists
in general, and composers in particular. And you, MO, is a prime example.
You are switching the subject. It is not question of erudition, but a
question of notational conventions. Composers who are incapable of
writing music in a way others can use it, are shooting themselves in
Isn't that a typical accusation, usually directed at JSBach?
Post by Matanya Ophee
the foot, however inspired the music may be. Of course you have to
switch the subject, because you know nothing about guitar notation.
You are not doing your friend Galvao any favors by encouraging him to
notate his music in this idiotic manner.
It is not about notation, it is about music. The latter is not you forte....
RT
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-25 14:37:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
the foot, however inspired the music may be. Of course you have to
switch the subject, because you know nothing about guitar notation.
You are not doing your friend Galvao any favors by encouraging him to
notate his music in this idiotic manner.
It is not about notation, it is about music.
Poor Paolo Galvao, if this is the best advice you can give him.
Post by Roman Turovsky
The latter is not you forte....
How would _you_ know, since you already told us you know NOTHING about
guitar music?


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Paulo Galvao
2003-08-25 19:48:49 UTC
Permalink
It is not question of erudition, but a
Post by Matanya Ophee
question of notational conventions. Composers who are incapable of
writing music in a way others can use it, are shooting themselves in
the foot, however inspired the music may be. Of course you have to
switch the subject, because you know nothing about guitar notation.
You are not doing your friend Galvao any favors by encouraging him to
notate his music in this idiotic manner.
Would you be so kind to loose the necessary time to follow conventions
and show us how to rotate guitar music?

You've surely read Carulli, Molino, Giuliani from original or
fac-simile sources. As you might have noticed everything is written as
a single voice in the violin fashion. If you can't understand those
scores and the inherent voicing than you can't read music at all.
If you«re lacking on musical understanding a sensibility you have a
big problem which will not be solved by the engraver.

Sorry, I'm very disappointed to see that such an old man like you
thinks music can be in a sheet of paper.
My music is in my head and I don't want to loose time with stupid
useless engraving work, that's a task for servants of commercial
editors.

Paulo Galvao, a musician
Richard F. Sayage
2003-08-25 20:23:09 UTC
Permalink
Hi Paulo,
Here you are mistaken...for the most obvious of reasons. The only way to
communicate your music to anyone of interest is via the "paper". It is your
responsibility to write it correctly. That you have done so or not, in the
discussed piece, is beside the point. Your statement below is most
disappointing. You, sir, are the servant of your own music and that which
is in your head. Please see the sensibility behind what I am saying to you,
of which any person or music house would say the same.

Other than this, this thread has been very disheartening, from many angles.
That's all I have to say. Anyone playing anything that we can hear?
Post by Matanya Ophee
It is not question of erudition, but a
Post by Matanya Ophee
question of notational conventions. Composers who are incapable of
writing music in a way others can use it, are shooting themselves in
the foot, however inspired the music may be. Of course you have to
switch the subject, because you know nothing about guitar notation.
You are not doing your friend Galvao any favors by encouraging him to
notate his music in this idiotic manner.
Would you be so kind to loose the necessary time to follow conventions
and show us how to rotate guitar music?
You've surely read Carulli, Molino, Giuliani from original or
fac-simile sources. As you might have noticed everything is written as
a single voice in the violin fashion. If you can't understand those
scores and the inherent voicing than you can't read music at all.
If you«re lacking on musical understanding a sensibility you have a
big problem which will not be solved by the engraver.
Sorry, I'm very disappointed to see that such an old man like you
thinks music can be in a sheet of paper.
My music is in my head and I don't want to loose time with stupid
useless engraving work, that's a task for servants of commercial
editors.
Paulo Galvao, a musician
Greg M. Silverman
2003-08-25 20:37:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Other than this, this thread has been very disheartening, from many angles.
That's all I have to say. Anyone playing anything that we can hear?
Hey Rich,
I liked your second take of ATB/GSTQ much better... but, it still didn't
really grab me. Possibly too much reverb? Not sure why...

gms--
Richard F. Sayage
2003-08-25 20:56:22 UTC
Permalink
Hi Greg,

Cool, brother. I probably need to work it a bit. Then again, it's probably
better if El does it on his steel string (in fact, I'm sure it's way better
if he does it). I'll give it another whirl at some near point and hear if I
like the results better.

In the meantime, I'm working the Largo from Bach's Keyboard Concerto F
Minor. My test copies are coming out okey-dokey, but I'm still not happy
happy enough with it. My latest version has some background noise, i.e.
kids screaming way in the back, sprinkler goin' whoosh whoosh, and I think
somebody dropped dead across the street, cuz you hear this wha-whump
somewhere in there like someone fallin' down. The only thing missing is me
goin' 'sumbitch' or something more colorful. A couple of squeaks, too.
pissin' me off. I use to play this like a freakin' dream. Close your eyes
and fall away some where far, baby. I might post something tonight? We'll
see (or hear, as it were) hehehe See ya!
--
Richard F. Sayage
www.savageclassical.com

http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Post by Greg M. Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Other than this, this thread has been very disheartening, from many angles.
That's all I have to say. Anyone playing anything that we can hear?
Hey Rich,
I liked your second take of ATB/GSTQ much better... but, it still didn't
really grab me. Possibly too much reverb? Not sure why...
gms--
elmcmeen
2003-08-25 21:06:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Hi Greg,
Cool, brother. I probably need to work it [Am the B] a bit. ...
I like it a lot.

El
Greg M. Silverman
2003-08-26 14:55:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Hi Greg,
Cool, brother. I probably need to work it a bit. Then again, it's probably
better if El does it on his steel string (in fact, I'm sure it's way better
if he does it). I'll give it another whirl at some near point and hear if I
like the results better.
You know, I think you're right: this piece doesn't work on nylon (which
is probably why I like the Queen version better, which has great
sustain; he whip out your Strat and see what you can do). The other
thing is that steel may give it the brighter sound it needs (for yucks,
you may want to try playing it more ponticello, which of course will
kill any sustain).


gms--
Greg M. Silverman
2003-08-26 14:56:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg M. Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Hi Greg,
Cool, brother. I probably need to work it a bit. Then again, it's probably
better if El does it on his steel string (in fact, I'm sure it's way better
if he does it). I'll give it another whirl at some near point and hear if I
like the results better.
You know, I think you're right: this piece doesn't work on nylon
(which is probably why I like the Queen version better, which has
great sustain; he whip out your Strat and see what you can do). The
other thing is that steel may give it the brighter sound it needs (for
yucks, you may want to try playing it more ponticello, which of course
will kill any sustain).
Methinks its time to change the subject-line on this.
Greg M. Silverman
2003-08-26 15:17:40 UTC
Permalink
<You know, I think you're right: this piece doesn't work on nylon ...>
Rich didn't say it didn't work, and I don't agree with your statement. I
myself do it on steel-string, but I personally like what Rich has done with
it.
My 2 pesos...reasonable people can disagree..
Yes, I did twist his words, didn't I? Oh well! And derned right we can
disagree... I still think it would be much better on steel, but whadya
gonna do, oy vay? :-P
(I really did like his rendition of "The Mist" a lot, and I don't think
it would sound nearly as effective on steel).

gms--
Richard White
2003-08-25 21:15:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
It is not question of erudition, but a
Post by Matanya Ophee
question of notational conventions. Composers who are incapable of
writing music in a way others can use it, are shooting themselves in
the foot, however inspired the music may be. Of course you have to
switch the subject, because you know nothing about guitar notation.
You are not doing your friend Galvao any favors by encouraging him to
notate his music in this idiotic manner.
Would you be so kind to loose the necessary time to follow conventions
and show us how to rotate guitar music?
You've surely read Carulli, Molino, Giuliani from original or
fac-simile sources. As you might have noticed everything is written as
a single voice in the violin fashion. If you can't understand those
scores and the inherent voicing than you can't read music at all.
If you«re lacking on musical understanding a sensibility you have a
big problem which will not be solved by the engraver.
Sorry, I'm very disappointed to see that such an old man like you
thinks music can be in a sheet of paper.
My music is in my head and I don't want to loose time with stupid
useless engraving work, that's a task for servants of commercial
editors.
Paulo Galvao, a musician
Since the music you posted is not likely ever to reach the hands of a
"commercial editor," "servant" or otherwise, the responsibility for
engraving is yours entirely. You need to look beyond hurt feelings and
_hear_ what Matanya is saying about your notation skills: You have much
to learn about notation conventions as they are generally accepted in
the music world. The score I viewed was simply atrocious. Further, it
displays significant ignorance, reflecting perfectly your feelings
about the matter exactly: it's "stupid" and "useless."

You can choose to get pissed at me or you can reach out for assistance.
There are many here who can help you, including myself, if you simply
and sincerely ask. Privately is okay if you wish.

Another Old Man,
Richard White
--
http://www.whitcopress.com
Expanded withs lots of sample scores and sound files.
Hear Linda Ronstadt sing Richard White on
ŒA Merry Little Christmas¹ - Elektra #62572-2/4
Robert Crim
2003-08-25 23:38:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paulo Galvao
Sorry, I'm very disappointed to see that such an old man like you
thinks music can be in a sheet of paper.
Well there you have it, MO. You're so old that you think music can be
written down on paper and interpreted many, many years later. But not
to worry. Many others before you have suffered under that
misconception.
Post by Paulo Galvao
My music is in my head and I don't want to loose time with stupid
useless engraving work, that's a task for servants of commercial
editors.
Translation: I can't be bothered with such stuff. I'm an "artiste."
Post by Paulo Galvao
Paulo Galvao, a musician
Not yet, Paolo. Not yet.

Robert
......how do you say "do you want fries with that?" in Portuguese?
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-26 05:37:53 UTC
Permalink
You see, this is the main problem. You are coming in here after having
been conditioned in the lute world to think that guitarists are not
musicians, since they play that lowly worthless instrument, the
guitar, and not the noble lute.
Paulo is a professional guitarist, on top of being a professional baroque
guitarist and a lutenist. He doesn't discriminate on the basis of adherence
to any particular instrument.
I have just reloaded Paulo's "AdC" downloads page, and all files are in
order for your perusal at
http://www.polyhymnion.org/adc/music-download.htm
I will also eventually put together a page of reviews of this music by both
fans and detractors.
Bom viajem,
RT
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-26 06:01:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
http://www.polyhymnion.org/adc/music-download.htm
I will also eventually put together a page of reviews of this music by both
fans and detractors.
Bom viajem,
RT
And the former include some interesting figures, stay tuned.....
RT
Lutester
2003-08-26 14:08:51 UTC
Permalink
You see, this is the main problem. You are coming in here after having
been conditioned in the lute world to think that guitarists are not
musicians, since they play that lowly worthless instrument, the
guitar, and not the noble lute.
FWIW, I think you unfairly characterize the lute world based on a
relatively perverse and thankfully, small, sample.

Most lute players of any renown were guitar players first. Many still
play and enjoy the classical guitar. Ronn Macfarlane, O'Dette,
Barto, Nigel North, Hoppy Smith were all accomplished guitarists
before they decided to stop playing transcriptions and go for the
original instrumentation.

They, like I, gravitated to the lute because of the music, not because
of any wish to achieve a higher artistic standing.
It's an interesting thought though. I wonder what the relative status
ranking of the musical instruments would be.........?

The heavenly harp, of course must be ranked at the top. Would the
soprano ukelele be at the bottom?

Robert
elmcmeen
2003-08-26 15:13:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lutester
The heavenly harp, of course must be ranked at the top. Would the
soprano ukelele be at the bottom?
Post by Lutester
Robert
You're right on the harp--including the guitar played in a harp-like
fashion<:)
As to the bottom, rumors are that the banjo and the bodhran are vying for
the title....

EM
David Kilpatrick
2003-08-25 19:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Roman Turovsky
I am not here to piss a pisser. I am informing this list about I piece of
music that I consider beautiful, and your "clout" won't influence people who
have a mind of their own. Your trashing of this piece is a good thing.
It is not the piece itself I am trashing. The first thing I said about
it was that it was a nice pastiche. What I am trashing, and will
continue to do so, is the phoney pretense under which it was presented
to this group, as if it belongs to a fake manuscript by a non-existent
composer named Antonio da Costa (which is Portuguese for Joe Blow,
Fred Blogue or Vasili Tiutkin).
Preyera da Costa - Abbe da Costa - whoever?

Mr James Oswald, Musician to the Bedchamber of George III, composer of
Portugal's prized early guitar repertoire which was also Scotland's
early guitar repertoire which was also....

This is the discovery which nearly got Rob MacKillop lynched two or
three years ago at the Portuguese guitar conference. After one leading
Portuguese expert had described the discovery of da Costa's music, Rob
then showed that it was actually published by Oswald in Britain earlier
on - and that Oswald was a very commercial publisher who adopted the
simple ruse of pen-names in foreign countries.

Refer to Rob for the story. I heard about it when he came back from
Portugal. I thought it was quite funny. The Portuguese did not!

David
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-25 21:54:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kilpatrick
Preyera da Costa - Abbe da Costa - whoever?
Mr James Oswald, Musician to the Bedchamber of George III, composer of
Portugal's prized early guitar repertoire which was also Scotland's
early guitar repertoire which was also....
Preyera is not Antonio. AdC was a real and respected composer, whose works
have not survived. I personally consider Paulo his amanuensis, in esoteric
terms, if you will, because he's proven to be able to produce beautiful
music for baroque guitar [which he knows intimately], and he succeeded
excellently, and in a style and character without a real precedent in the
Baroque Era, i.e. NOT influenced by any known Iberian Composers.
Essentially his "retro" works are fado translated into the language of
Baroque.
The MO's reaction is easily explained by the fact that he never endorses
music better than his own.
RT
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-26 04:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
The MO's reaction is easily explained by the fact that he never endorses
music better than his own.
That's a goddamn lie!


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
David Kilpatrick
2003-08-26 08:41:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by David Kilpatrick
Preyera da Costa - Abbe da Costa - whoever?
Mr James Oswald, Musician to the Bedchamber of George III, composer of
Portugal's prized early guitar repertoire which was also Scotland's
early guitar repertoire which was also....
Preyera is not Antonio. AdC was a real and respected composer, whose works
have not survived. I personally consider Paulo his amanuensis, in esoteric
terms, if you will, because he's proven to be able to produce beautiful
music for baroque guitar [which he knows intimately], and he succeeded
excellently, and in a style and character without a real precedent in the
Baroque Era, i.e. NOT influenced by any known Iberian Composers.
Essentially his "retro" works are fado translated into the language of
Baroque.
The MO's reaction is easily explained by the fact that he never endorses
music better than his own.
I had assumed that ther da Costa involved was first a prior and then an
abbot, which would be quite normal. He would have been called Preyera at
an earlier stage in this career in orders. Or maybe I'm not
understanding the designations correctly.

David
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-26 12:52:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kilpatrick
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by David Kilpatrick
Preyera da Costa - Abbe da Costa - whoever?
Mr James Oswald, Musician to the Bedchamber of George III, composer of
Portugal's prized early guitar repertoire which was also Scotland's
early guitar repertoire which was also....
Preyera is not Antonio. AdC was a real and respected composer, whose works
have not survived. I personally consider Paulo his amanuensis, in esoteric
terms, if you will, because he's proven to be able to produce beautiful
music for baroque guitar [which he knows intimately], and he succeeded
excellently, and in a style and character without a real precedent in the
Baroque Era, i.e. NOT influenced by any known Iberian Composers.
Essentially his "retro" works are fado translated into the language of
Baroque.
The MO's reaction is easily explained by the fact that he never endorses
music better than his own.
I had assumed that ther da Costa involved was first a prior and then an
abbot, which would be quite normal. He would have been called Preyera at
an earlier stage in this career in orders. Or maybe I'm not
understanding the designations correctly.
David
By Oswald's time Antonio da Costa was well forgotten in Portugal, because he
moved to Rome and to Vienna where he made his musical reputation and where
he died in obscurity. The accounts of his "bizzarrie" survived in memoirs.
Da Costa is one of most common surnames in Portugal, and I doubt Oswald
picked it for a pseudonym on the basis of familiarity with AdC. It is
equally plausible that Oswald plagiarized some other Da Costa, "his" set
contains some of the most unmemorable music ever written, and contains none
of AdC's "bizzarrie" on which his reputation stood. The complete Oswald
facsimile is on the web somewhere.
RT
elmcmeen
2003-08-26 13:08:18 UTC
Permalink
"Roman Turovsky" <***@verizon.net> wrote in message

You really should stick to painting...

EM
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-26 13:45:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by elmcmeen
You really should stick to painting...
EM
Indeed. Windmills are a lot more durable than Don Quixotes.......
RT
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-26 12:07:36 UTC
Permalink
1. Paulo [...] Essentially his "retro" works are fado translated
into the language of Baroque.
2. The piece in question is a original music, with Portuguese inflection of its author.
There are no stylistic anachronisms to qualify it as a pastiche.
Am I missing something here? or this is a case of someone talking out
of both sides of his mouth simultaneously?








Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-26 04:47:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kilpatrick
Preyera da Costa - Abbe da Costa - whoever?
Mr James Oswald, Musician to the Bedchamber of George III, composer of
Portugal's prized early guitar repertoire which was also Scotland's
early guitar repertoire which was also....
This is the discovery which nearly got Rob MacKillop lynched two or
three years ago at the Portuguese guitar conference. After one leading
Portuguese expert had described the discovery of da Costa's music, Rob
then showed that it was actually published by Oswald in Britain earlier
on - and that Oswald was a very commercial publisher who adopted the
simple ruse of pen-names in foreign countries.
Refer to Rob for the story. I heard about it when he came back from
Portugal. I thought it was quite funny. The Portuguese did not!
I guess some of them have a problem with the fact that the Portuguese
guitar is a direct import from England.

Estudo de Guitarra Em que se expoem o meio mais facil para aprender a
tocar este instrumento, de Antonio da Silva Leite, Porto, 1796
(Anno de M. DCC.XCVI).

Among others, it says:

Guitarra, que segundo dizem, teve a sua origem na GramBretanha, he
hum instrumento, que pela sua harmonia, e suavidade tem sido aceito
por muitos Povos, que achando-a capaz de supprir por algunos
instrumentos de maior vulto, como o Cravo, e outros; e asias
sufficiente para entretenimento de huma Assemblea, evitando o
incommodo, que poderia causar o convite de huma Orquesta, a
adoptarao uniformemente, esmerando-se em a tocarem com toda a
destreza....

I am sure our friend Paulo could provide us with a translation....

(The Russians, BTW, have the same problem...)



Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-25 21:56:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kilpatrick
Post by Matanya Ophee
It is not the piece itself I am trashing. The first thing I said about
it was that it was a nice pastiche. What I am trashing, and will
continue to do so, is the phoney pretense under which it was presented
to this group, as if it belongs to a fake manuscript by a non-existent
composer named Antonio da Costa (which is Portuguese for Joe Blow,
Fred Blogue or Vasili Tiutkin).
Preyera da Costa - Abbe da Costa - whoever?
Mr James Oswald, Musician to the Bedchamber of George III, composer of
Portugal's prized early guitar repertoire which was also Scotland's
early guitar repertoire which was also....
This is the discovery which nearly got Rob MacKillop lynched two or
three years ago at the Portugugese guitar conference. After one leading
Portuguese expert had described the discovery of da Costa's music, Rob
then showed that it was actually published by Oswald in Britain earlier
on - and that Oswald was a very commercial publisher who adopted the
simple ruse of pen-names in foreign countries.
Refer to Rob for the story. I heard about it when he came back from
Portugal. I thought it was quite funny. The Portuguese did not!
That is fully indeed. The Oswald set some of the most forgettable music ever
written.
RT
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-25 04:18:11 UTC
Permalink
So this is the rational for your appearance here?
RationalE.
RT
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-25 10:11:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
So this is the rational for your appearance here?
RationalE.
If you intend to stick around here for any length of time, I would
advise you to avoid correcting other people's spellings. Bad move
which only makes you look like a pedantic dolt. You understood what I
meant, and that's all that matters.





Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
James Calivar
2003-08-25 12:18:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Roman Turovsky
So this is the rational for your appearance here?
RationalE.
If you intend to stick around here for any length of time, I would
advise you to avoid correcting other people's spellings. Bad move
which only makes you look like a pedantic dolt. You understood what I
meant, and that's all that matters.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cb36jv0vfjn9ltgaumihv7rekdsqj8j5d4%404ax.com
thomas
2003-08-26 04:37:55 UTC
Permalink
And, on the question of the premeditated terrorist murder of 200+ refugees,
(SS Patria), which Ophee stated was
Not any different
than American pilots shooting up a contingent of Canadian soldiers in
Afghanistan. The history of war is full of these "friendly fire" accidents
would pointing out the difference be pedantic.
It would be less pedantic than arguing that the Encyclopedia
Britannica did not say that the Haganah was a terrorist group,
it said only that the Haganah engaged in terrorist activities.
And you must admit those Canadian bastards had it coming, with
their free health care and all.
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-26 05:39:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by thomas
It would be less pedantic than arguing that the Encyclopedia
Britannica did not say that the Haganah was a terrorist group,
it said only that the Haganah engaged in terrorist activities.
And you must admit those Canadian bastards had it coming, with
their free health care and all.
And their Ministry of Culture paying for music.
RT
norman
2003-08-26 15:57:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by thomas
And, on the question of the premeditated terrorist murder of 200+ refugees,
(SS Patria), which Ophee stated was
Not any different
than American pilots shooting up a contingent of Canadian soldiers in
Afghanistan. The history of war is full of these "friendly fire" accidents
would pointing out the difference be pedantic.
It would be less pedantic than arguing that the Encyclopedia
Britannica did not say that the Haganah was a terrorist group,
it said only that the Haganah engaged in terrorist activities.
And you must admit those Canadian bastards had it coming, with
their free health care and all.
Indeed, any group that blows up 200+ refugees shouldn't be called terrorist
if they haven't declared that in their Articles of Association, and included
the cost of the explosives under 'terrorist activities' in their annual
accounts. I sure as hell hope I haven't infringed their human rights.

N.
William D Clinger
2003-08-25 15:52:28 UTC
Permalink
So this is the rational for your appearance here? to make yourself an
ass? if that is the case, you are doing a great job. Besides, with
very few exceptions, most people here do not read the lute list, so
there is no sense of making here a pissing match who makes himself a
bigger ass _over there_. It's over _here_ that counts.
And the perennial RMCG champion isn't about to surrender his title
without a fight.
;)

Will
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-25 16:44:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by William D Clinger
So this is the rational for your appearance here? to make yourself an
ass? if that is the case, you are doing a great job. Besides, with
very few exceptions, most people here do not read the lute list, so
there is no sense of making here a pissing match who makes himself a
bigger ass _over there_. It's over _here_ that counts.
And the perennial RMCG champion isn't about to surrender his title
without a fight.
You probably have figured out that this is not the first time RT
starts blowing wasps around my ass, to use a delightful euphemism from
the Lutester. I was only wondering what took him so long to finally
debase himself sufficiently to come and mingle with--Pardon my
French-- guitarists. The argument I have had with him over the years
is mainly about these fake composers he invented, and his political
agenda of actively campaigning against commercial publishers, any
which way he can, legally or otherwise, while at the same time
maintaining this phoney pretense to cultural superiority over anybody
else, particularly guitar players.

Somehow, I do not understand the basic aversion he has towards
publishers. It is OK for instrument makers to take money for their
instruments. It is OK for players to ask for money in exchange for
giving concerts in public. It is OK for teachers to charge for their
time, but a person who dares to ask for money in exchange for a
printed book is the pits. Just a bunch of money grabbing merchants who
blood suck the life out of the music scene. The Slogan is that music
should be free to all, no matter who wrote it or when, no matter who
edited it, no matter who discovered it.

Which reminds me: just got in the mail this morning a 2 CD set of the
Complete Regondi. The five concert works, the 10 Etudes, and also
Sor's op. 46 which is dedicated to Regondi. The performer: Masahiro
Ojiri, whom I met so many years ago when he studied with Neil Anderson
in Boston. This is the fifth recording of the 10 Etudes I know off.
Not bad for the work of one uncultured, musically insensitive, but
erudite, amateur publisher.



Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Lutester
2003-08-25 20:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Somehow, I do not understand the basic aversion he has towards
publishers. It is OK for instrument makers to take money for their
instruments. It is OK for players to ask for money in exchange for
giving concerts in public. It is OK for teachers to charge for their
time, but a person who dares to ask for money in exchange for a
printed book is the pits. Just a bunch of money grabbing merchants who
blood suck the life out of the music scene. The Slogan is that music
should be free to all, no matter who wrote it or when, no matter who
edited it, no matter who discovered it.
If you'll excuse a trip back down memory lane.........back in the day,
lute players had to get their music either from transcriptions by
guitarists like Pujol and Scheit or go to the museum collections for
microfilms/microfiche. The published sources in those days were few
and far between and mostly not oriented to lute players at all. Most
were transcriptions for keyboard or guitar.

Most lute players looking for material opted for the underground
sources where films were ordered from museums and one or two devoted
lute players became scribes and transcribed whole manuscripts by hand.
They then photocopied their work and passed them around to their buds
who did the same for their buds and so on.

Later it became possible to actually copy the films to hard paper
using the modern technology or the Xerox. I have in my library some
copies of the basic British museum sources where the pages are 2 feet
by 3 feet because I only had access to a machine that copied films for
maps. Other materials are simple photo enlargements from the 35mm
films onto regular enlarging paper. Many are white letters/numbers on
black backgrounds.

Over time, a culture of doing it yourself, for yourself and you
friends grew and I think still exists. After all, if you gave your
manuscripts to your buddies and your buddies shared with you, why
should a publisher not do the same?

Now with the computer age, lots of previously inaccessible stuff is
available all cleaned up and pretty.................for free. Whole
websites are devoted to making lute tablatures easily downloaded.

I think that may have much to do with a reaction by many, to a
publisher that must make $$ doing what they think they are doing for
free. They don't figure in the cost of the academic efforts that go
into a reliable publication since many don't really care about such
things as provenance or concordances.

I don't worry about those things since I have about 12 feet of shelf
space full of the original(film) copies that I've collected over the
last 30 years. That's more than enough to keep me busy beyond the
foreseeable future.

Anyway, that's my theory on the anti-publisher feeling on the part of
some lute folks. Guitar folks may have their own reasons unrelated to
scarcity of materials.

Robert
William D Clinger
2003-08-25 23:58:48 UTC
Permalink
I knew I could count on MO for background and color commentary
as well as for the main event.
Post by Matanya Ophee
Which reminds me: just got in the mail this morning a 2 CD set of the
Complete Regondi....This is the fifth recording of the 10 Etudes I know off.
Congratulations, Matanya.

Will
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-26 03:40:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
printed book is the pits. Just a bunch of money grabbing merchants who
blood suck the life out of the music scene. The Slogan is that music
should be free to all, no matter who wrote it or when, no matter who
edited it, no matter who discovered it.
That's a lie. Polyhymnion's policy is to respect rights of living artists.
We do not support secondary copyrights on music in public domain, i.e. MO's
primary source of income, on the pretext of "editing".
RT
Todd Tipton
2003-08-26 03:58:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
We do not support secondary copyrights on music in public domain, i.e. MO's
primary source of income, on the pretext of "editing".
Would you please give a detailed account of what this statement means?

Todd Tipton
Cincinnati, Oh.
http://toddtipton.com
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-26 04:25:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Tipton
Post by Roman Turovsky
We do not support secondary copyrights on music in public domain, i.e. MO's
primary source of income, on the pretext of "editing".
Would you please give a detailed account of what this statement means?
Todd Tipton
Cincinnati, Oh.
http://toddtipton.com
Simple: We consider it illegal and immoral to claim secondary copyrights on
any music in public domain, i.e. when someone "edits" or "transcribes"
JSBach and tries to make money off one's own idiosyncracies.
RT
______________
Roman M. Turovsky
http://turovsky.org
http://polyhymnion.org
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-26 05:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Todd Tipton
Post by Roman Turovsky
We do not support secondary copyrights on music in public domain, i.e. MO's
primary source of income, on the pretext of "editing".
Would you please give a detailed account of what this statement means?
Todd Tipton
Cincinnati, Oh.
http://toddtipton.com
Simple: We consider it illegal and immoral to claim secondary copyrights on
any music in public domain, i.e. when someone "edits" or "transcribes"
JSBach and tries to make money off one's own idiosyncracies.
Thank you for clarifying the extent of your mendacity, pretensions to
a higher mortality, and an understanding of the law which is so far
out in left field, it is not even funny.



Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Todd Tipton
2003-08-26 13:27:02 UTC
Permalink
Oh, it is legal enough. But somehow I'm certain you knew what I am talking
about.
I certainly don't know what you are talking about. When I communicate with people,
I have to base my interpretation on what they -say- or -write-.
I am not about to hurt my wrists on lengthy discussions of esoterica of
ethics, religion, spirituality etc.
Rather than focus on the digression you've provided in your sentence above, you can
assume that I meant what I said and said what I meant. I'm certain that you -don't-
know what you are talking about. I think everyone here has gone as far with this
discussion as one reasonably can. Do you agree?

Todd Tipton
Cincinnati, Oh.
http://toddtipton.com
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-26 14:41:32 UTC
Permalink
Count me out. It has become another futile exercise in watching flies
buzzing around MO's rear end.
This is priceless, absolutely. All his sycophants waiting for
nourishment......
Thanks, Bob.
Back to the cauldron of evil,
RT
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-26 05:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
printed book is the pits. Just a bunch of money grabbing merchants who
blood suck the life out of the music scene. The Slogan is that music
should be free to all, no matter who wrote it or when, no matter who
edited it, no matter who discovered it.
That's a lie. Polyhymnion's policy is to respect rights of living artists.
We do not support secondary copyrights on music in public domain, i.e. MO's
primary source of income, on the pretext of "editing".
Obviously, you have not studied the contents of my catalogue, and my
publication of music by many living composers. As for your disrespect
for secondary copyrights on music in the public domain, yours is a
political statement which stands in direct violation of current
copyright laws. You are welcome to it and the mere fact that you made
the statement here, simply underlines the fact that I did not lie. You
try and rip-off my editorial work of music in the public domain, and
I'll take you to the cleaners so fast, you would not know how to find
Long Island City again. Count on it.




Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-26 05:45:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
the statement here, simply underlines the fact that I did not lie. You
try and rip-off my editorial work of music in the public domain, and
I'll take you to the cleaners so fast, you would not know how to find
Long Island City again. Count on it.
I wouldn't touch you or your editorial work with a ten-foot pole.
RT
______________
Roman M. Turovsky
http://turovsky.org
http://polyhymnion.org
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-26 05:59:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
the statement here, simply underlines the fact that I did not lie. You
try and rip-off my editorial work of music in the public domain, and
I'll take you to the cleaners so fast, you would not know how to find
Long Island City again. Count on it.
I wouldn't touch you or your editorial work with a ten-foot pole.
Smart move. keep it this way.
You must be unfamiliar with this American idiom. Too bad......
RT
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-26 06:06:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
the statement here, simply underlines the fact that I did not lie. You
try and rip-off my editorial work of music in the public domain, and
I'll take you to the cleaners so fast, you would not know how to find
Long Island City again. Count on it.
I wouldn't touch you or your editorial work with a ten-foot pole.
Smart move. keep it this way.
You must be unfamiliar with this American idiom. Too bad......
Oh, I am very familair with it, and I did not miss your childish
attempts to insult. I am just happy that you have decided to leave my
work alone, for whatever reason. Hopefully, you will also leave alone
the work of all my friends and colleagues. It will be good for you to
do so. Now that we have been forewarned about your predatory
convictions, I am sure your work will be examined very closely. First
time you follow your false morality and rip-off someone, the game's
up.


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-26 06:15:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
the statement here, simply underlines the fact that I did not lie. You
try and rip-off my editorial work of music in the public domain, and
I'll take you to the cleaners so fast, you would not know how to find
Long Island City again. Count on it.
I wouldn't touch you or your editorial work with a ten-foot pole.
Smart move. keep it this way.
You must be unfamiliar with this American idiom. Too bad......
Oh, I am very familair with it, and I did not miss your childish
attempts to insult. I am just happy that you have decided to leave my
work alone, for whatever reason. Hopefully, you will also leave alone
the work of all my friends and colleagues. It will be good for you to
do so. Now that we have been forewarned about your predatory
convictions, I am sure your work will be examined very closely. First
time you follow your false morality and rip-off someone, the game's
up.
Unlike you I am not in recycling business.
RT
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-26 11:54:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
Oh, I am very familair with it, and I did not miss your childish
attempts to insult. I am just happy that you have decided to leave my
work alone, for whatever reason. Hopefully, you will also leave alone
the work of all my friends and colleagues. It will be good for you to
do so. Now that we have been forewarned about your predatory
convictions, I am sure your work will be examined very closely. First
time you follow your false morality and rip-off someone, the game's
up.
Unlike you I am not in recycling business.
Which is why you are supporting Alain Veylit and Richard Civiol in
recycling the Manabe Weiss Moscow mansucript?, not to mention other
recycling projects these guys are involved in?



Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-26 12:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Roman Turovsky
Post by Matanya Ophee
Oh, I am very familair with it, and I did not miss your childish
attempts to insult. I am just happy that you have decided to leave my
work alone, for whatever reason. Hopefully, you will also leave alone
the work of all my friends and colleagues. It will be good for you to
do so. Now that we have been forewarned about your predatory
convictions, I am sure your work will be examined very closely. First
time you follow your false morality and rip-off someone, the game's
up.
Unlike you I am not in recycling business.
Which is why you are supporting Alain Veylit and Richard Civiol in
recycling the Manabe Weiss Moscow mansucript?, not to mention other
recycling projects these guys are involved in?
1.Weiss-Moscow is useless to practical lutenists in the form in which you
issued it. The tabulature is sewn on wrong side and cannot be put on the
music stand.
2.It is an expensive useless item.
3. Others' typesetting job is adequate and free, a labor of love. Can't buy
that...
You, on the other hand collect rare public domain freebies, repackage and
SELL them.
RT
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-26 12:52:27 UTC
Permalink
Good you mentioned this. A good forewarning to Robert and Greg before
they buy this item. Damn right it cannot be put on the music stand. It
was not meant to. In the old days lutenists did not have music stands.
They put the music flat on the table. We reproduced the manuscript
exactly in the same manner it was originally sewn. The pages of the
manuscript, presented in landscape on a portrait page, follow each
other vertically, exactly as it did in the original.
The pitch notation grand staff transcription is of course portrait on
portrait, and as musicians who can read music, you'll have no problem
putting it on the music stand...


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-26 12:32:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roman Turovsky
Unlike you I am not in recycling business.
Damn proud to be in the recycling business. Recycling the forgotten
music of composers long gone, making it available to guitarists today.
Can't think of a more lofty purpose in resurrecting the true heritage
of the guitar.

It took me many years of searching to find the 10 Etudes of Giulio
Regondi. I did not "discover" this important part of our heritage. I
only discovered who could possibly have a copy of it, and where, and
then the steps to acquire it. I then recycled it, twice actually, and
it has sold to thousands of guitarists world wide, and as I said,
already recorded 5 times in its entirety, and performed in concerts by
many important guitarists, starting with David Starobin, continuing
with John Holmquist and the latest by Masahiro Ojiri (You can come to
the GFA festival in Merida and hear this man live). Would these 10
Etudes ever come to light without my recycling work?

Probably they would, and perhaps they would not. It would have taken
someone with a working knowledge of the Russian language and a
currency in Soviet editions of guitar music to realize that the place
to look for this music was in Russia. The Russians themselves, sitting
on this music for many decades, had no clue what this was. I did, and
did so before anybody else. So I pat myself on the back for one
recycling job well done.

Other recycling jobs I am particularly proud of are the
Beethoven-Matiegka Serenade Op. 8, the music and the biography of
François de Fossa, the music and the biography of Antoine de Lhoyer,
including his 1802 Concerto, which I recycled into the repertoire of
the guitar with the close assistance of other recyclers named Stanley
Yates and Erik Stenstadvold. (Stanley's four volume recycling job of
early 19th century guitar sonatas is soon to see the light with Mel
Bay). I am also proud of recycling the Koenigsberg Manuscript, the
Lute Works of Johh Johnson, the Swan Manuscript and the Moscow Weiss
Manuscript, not to mention the latest in the series--the Da Un Codice
del Cinquecento by Oscar Chilesotti.

I also publish original music by many living composers such as Angelo
Gilardino, Mark Delpriora, Ronaldo Miranda, Jan Freidlin, Vladislav
Uspensky, Alexandre Eisenberg, Gilbert Biberian, Edmund Jurkowski,
Ruben Seroussi, Lior Yekutieli, and the latest, just about ready for
the press--the guitar concerto by Josef Bardanashvili (and the guitar
part, incidentally, will now have the editorial work and fingering of
Ruben Seroussi).

All of this is real music by real people. Some are alive and some are
long dead. Certainly a better proposition than peddling, even for
free, fake pastiches under a stupid pseudonym(s).



Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Edward Bridge
2003-08-25 02:13:16 UTC
Permalink
"Matanya Ophee" <***@orphee.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...


snip> like myself who have been providing guitarists,
Post by Matanya Ophee
and some lutenists too, with their repertoire for the last 25 years.
and one guitarist who knows nothing about Lute Songs which he (I ) prove
this weekend

Do you or anyone else know the J. Dowland transcribed by Werner J. Wolff
"the third and last book of songs " on Doblinger music. I have the book but
I know Zilch about the music . We have to do "Me Me and None but Me" for
next Sunday .Is there's a better book we should be using or is this a
fine book ?
Thank you
Ed Bridge

unless I goof Werner J. Wolff did'nt come up in RMCG /google Search
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-25 03:35:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Bridge
snip> like myself who have been providing guitarists,
Post by Matanya Ophee
and some lutenists too, with their repertoire for the last 25 years.
and one guitarist who knows nothing about Lute Songs which he (I ) prove
this weekend
Do you or anyone else know the J. Dowland transcribed by Werner J. Wolff
"the third and last book of songs " on Doblinger music. I have the book but
I know Zilch about the music . We have to do "Me Me and None but Me" for
next Sunday .Is there's a better book we should be using or is this a
fine book ?
Not familiar with this particular one. There are virtually hundreds of
books of guitar transcriptions of Dowland songs on the market, with
various degrees of quality or usefulness. The best of the lot are the
series of English Lute Songs published by Stainer and Bell in the
early 1920s. They contain all the information you want, a grand staff
transcription plus the tablature. Should be a simple matter to use
either directly, or re-writing the grand staff on one staff for
guitar. I am sure these books are in a good library near y0u. I have
one of them, but not the one with this particular song. In her
biography of Dowland, Diana Poulton discusses this song in quite some
detail. Mainly, she speaks about the significance of the lyrics to the
idea of the Swan Song.

Me, me and none but me, dart home, O gentle Death,
And quickly, for I draw too long this idle breath.
O how I long till I may fly to heav'n above,
Unto my faithful, unto my faithful beloved turtle dove.

Like to the silver swan, before my death I sing,
And yet alive my fatal knell I help to ring.
Still I desire from earth and earthly joys to fly,
He never happy liv'd, never happy liv'd that cannot love to die.

So depends what you are looking for. If it is information on the song,
read Poulton. If it is a better transcription, then I would recommend
looking at all of them, or get the tablature and make up your own. If
time is of the essence, then take this Wolff thing and modify it any
which way you want. Dowland himself would have done it for sure...


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Edward Bridge
2003-08-25 16:52:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Edward Bridge
snip> like myself who have been providing guitarists,
Post by Matanya Ophee
and some lutenists too, with their repertoire for the last 25 years.
and one guitarist who knows nothing about Lute Songs which he (I ) prove
this weekend
Do you or anyone else know the J. Dowland transcribed by Werner J. Wolff
"the third and last book of songs " on Doblinger music. I have the book but
I know Zilch about the music . We have to do "Me Me and None but Me" for
next Sunday .Is there's a better book we should be using or is this a
fine book ?
Not familiar with this particular one. There are virtually hundreds of
books of guitar transcriptions of Dowland songs on the market, with
various degrees of quality or usefulness. The best of the lot are the
series of English Lute Songs published by Stainer and Bell in the
early 1920s. They contain all the information you want, a grand staff
transcription plus the tablature. Should be a simple matter to use
either directly, or re-writing the grand staff on one staff for
guitar. I am sure these books are in a good library near you.
Thank you and that's where we're going today . Got to start getting these
kids in school shape .I bet the library will have have Poulton and the
English Lute Songs published by Stainer and Bell . I should check for some
others books that Amazon is taking forever on

Thank you for your help.

Ed Bridge
Lutester
2003-08-25 14:21:12 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 02:13:16 GMT, "Edward Bridge"
Post by Edward Bridge
Do you or anyone else know the J. Dowland transcribed by Werner J. Wolff
"the third and last book of songs " on Doblinger music. I have the book but
I know Zilch about the music . We have to do "Me Me and None but Me" for
next Sunday .Is there's a better book we should be using or is this a
fine book ?
Thank you
Ed Bridge
"Me Me and None but Me" is one of those "kill me or let me die" songs
that were popular in the late 1500's/early 1600's in England. Another
example of the type is "Come Heavy Sleep."

It comes from Dowland's "Third and Last Book of Songs" which was the
next to last book of songs. The lyrics are from an anonymous writer,
but the accompaniment is one of Dowland's later period works.

The best (most literal) arrangements come from Stainer and Bell. They
should be in just about any library. The ones you want are the
Dowland, "50 Songs" series (book 2?) or their edition of the "Third
Book of Songs"

Were it I doing this in such a short time, I'd just lower that 3rd
string, put on a capo and play from the tablature version.

Good luck! It's good stuff.

Robert
Edward Bridge
2003-08-25 16:41:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lutester
The best (most literal) arrangements come from Stainer and Bell. They
should be in just about any library. The ones you want are the
Dowland, "50 Songs" series (book 2?) or their edition of the "Third
Book of Songs"
Thank you.
Post by Lutester
Were it I doing this in such a short time, I'd just lower that 3rd
string, put on a capo and play from the tablature version.
Hard to believe that I'm just now learning to do this as of yesterday.I had
to write the fingering in because my mind wasn't letting go of the 3rd
string as "G" .
Kirsti never wanted to do this music then "bang" it's what she wants to do
among some other music she's been listening too. I needed to learn the lute
tablature but for Sunday I'm just going to play what's in front of me and
steal a few notes from the recordings of Mr. O'Dette

Thank you for your help

Peace,

Ed Bridge
Lutester
2003-08-25 17:39:09 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:41:52 GMT, "Edward Bridge"
Post by Edward Bridge
Hard to believe that I'm just now learning to do this as of yesterday.I had
to write the fingering in because my mind wasn't letting go of the 3rd
string as "G" .
Old habits die hard, eh?
You'll find that lute tablature is easier to adapt to than many other
things............like new cable TV channel numbers, driving on the
"British" side of the road, or dumping your ex-wife for a 20 year old
cheerleader.
Post by Edward Bridge
Kirsti never wanted to do this music then "bang" it's what she wants to do
among some other music she's been listening too. I needed to learn the lute
tablature but for Sunday I'm just going to play what's in front of me and
steal a few notes from the recordings of Mr. O'Dette
She sounds like a musical force to be reckoned with. Good musical
taste.

Robert
Edward Bridge
2003-08-25 19:20:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lutester
She sounds like a musical force to be reckoned with. Good musical
taste.
She is a force! :>)

Peace
Ed
David Kilpatrick
2003-08-25 19:33:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Bridge
snip> like myself who have been providing guitarists,
Post by Matanya Ophee
and some lutenists too, with their repertoire for the last 25 years.
and one guitarist who knows nothing about Lute Songs which he (I ) prove
this weekend
Do you or anyone else know the J. Dowland transcribed by Werner J. Wolff
"the third and last book of songs " on Doblinger music. I have the book but
I know Zilch about the music . We have to do "Me Me and None but Me" for
next Sunday .Is there's a better book we should be using or is this a
fine book ?
I don't know if David Nadal's transcriptions are any good, they were the
cheapest and most complete I could find on Amazon. He does guitar
version mainly in lute tuning, 3rd fret capo, sometimes drop D; plus the
original lute version. I find them good because they are just MUSIC, and
that means I can dispense with the lute tuning and the capo if I wish,
and pick the occasional song which I can rework for plain old guitar,
with a vocal pitch to suit me and not a Jacobean counter-tenor.

David
Edward Bridge
2003-08-26 13:57:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kilpatrick
Post by Edward Bridge
snip> like myself who have been providing guitarists,
Post by Matanya Ophee
and some lutenists too, with their repertoire for the last 25 years.
and one guitarist who knows nothing about Lute Songs which he (I ) prove
this weekend
Do you or anyone else know the J. Dowland transcribed by Werner J. Wolff
"the third and last book of songs " on Doblinger music. I have the book but
I know Zilch about the music . We have to do "Me Me and None but Me" for
next Sunday .Is there's a better book we should be using or is this a
fine book ?
I don't know if David Nadal's transcriptions are any good, they were the
cheapest and most complete I could find on Amazon. He does guitar
version mainly in lute tuning, 3rd fret capo, sometimes drop D; plus the
original lute version. I find them good because they are just MUSIC, and
that means I can dispense with the lute tuning and the capo if I wish,
and pick the occasional song which I can rework for plain old guitar,
with a vocal pitch to suit me and not a Jacobean counter-tenor.
David
Thank you David, Another good person told me that David Nadal seems to be
"very competent.".

This music seems to help us (Kirsti and I) when our nerves are fried.

Your right I do use Amazon a lot and Barnes& Noble only because one is two
blocks away me and the other is under my "fingers"

Peace
Ed
Matanya Ophee
2003-08-26 14:40:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Bridge
Thank you David, Another good person told me that David Nadal seems to be
"very competent.".
I'll second the motion. While I have not seen the particular book in
question, David Nadal has done for me one hell of a job engraving (in
Score) hundreds of incipits for Jukka Savijoki's Thematic Catalogue of
the Guitar works of Anton Diabelli. Very accurate work.


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Edward Bridge
2003-08-27 17:56:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Edward Bridge
Thank you David, Another good person told me that David Nadal seems to be
"very competent.".
I'll second the motion. While I have not seen the particular book in
question, David Nadal has done for me one hell of a job engraving (in
Score) hundreds of incipits for Jukka Savijoki's Thematic Catalogue of
the Guitar works of Anton Diabelli. Very accurate work.
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
I must get this book it seems that every one agrees on this .I was going to
get it yesterday but a 173 lady ( my house) really needed help yesterday
in a emergency. . I'm so sore today :>)

Thank You
Ed

David Kilpatrick
2003-08-25 19:17:34 UTC
Permalink
I love it, but can not judge in any way from the soundfile. The very
quiet, bright sound of the baroque guitar
Very strange baroque guitar when the very first note is an open (6)
string, low E.
I thought it sounded too low, but didn't try to identify the pitches.
The sound was so un-guitar like I couldn't tell. It seems as if it was
never intended to mean baroque guitar, but mok-barok for guitar.

Not sure if some of the Portuguese folk viola family (closest living
relative of the baroque guitar outside central America, where it
survives almost untouched by time) have six courses and go down to E. I
suspect they have six courses but get peculiarly tuned.

David
Roman Turovsky
2003-08-25 21:27:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kilpatrick
I love it, but can not judge in any way from the soundfile. The very
quiet, bright sound of the baroque guitar
Very strange baroque guitar when the very first note is an open (6)
string, low E.
I thought it sounded too low, but didn't try to identify the pitches.
The sound was so un-guitar like I couldn't tell. It seems as if it was
never intended to mean baroque guitar, but mok-barok for guitar.
Not sure if some of the Portuguese folk viola family (closest living
relative of the baroque guitar outside central America, where it
survives almost untouched by time) have six courses and go down to E. I
suspect they have six courses but get peculiarly tuned.
Paulo has collected a few violas campanicas, and has a web page devoted to
them on musicaliaportugal.com
RT
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