Discussion:
Weiss Recordings
(too old to reply)
Stefan Nowak
2004-06-23 17:29:44 UTC
Permalink
I wonder if I am the only one who is not so utterly impressed with the
Weiss Recordings (Robert Barto) on Naxos? I´ve googled the groups and
everyone seems to rave about them... For my taste they are played to
introverted and "muddled". You know what I mean? In my understanding is
Weiss´s music more "masculine" than the former french school of lute
music.

Some people recommended also the Lutz Kirchhof interpretations. I went
to amazon and listened to some examples and I´m quite impressed. He has
an very "expressionist" and down to earth style, he play the Suites more
*Bach-like* with good phrasing and strong dynamics.

Any opinions? I have to admit that I only have the First Barto-Weiss Cd,
are the others different?

Stefan

PS: Here is an amazon link to listen to Kirchhof playing Weiss:

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000262CT/qid=1088010970/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_10_4/028-2677740-7348500
Julian Tuwim
2004-06-23 18:37:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Nowak
I wonder if I am the only one who is not so utterly impressed with the
Weiss Recordings (Robert Barto) on Naxos? I´ve googled the groups and
everyone seems to rave about them... For my taste they are played to
introverted and "muddled". You know what I mean? In my understanding is
Weiss´s music more "masculine" than the former french school of lute
music.
Some people recommended also the Lutz Kirchhof interpretations. I went
to amazon and listened to some examples and I´m quite impressed. He has
an very "expressionist" and down to earth style, he play the Suites more
*Bach-like* with good phrasing and strong dynamics.
Any opinions? I have to admit that I only have the First Barto-Weiss Cd,
are the others different?
Stefan
The Vol.1 is a bit problematic acoustically, you should get 4,5 and 6 before
forming an opinion.
RT
________________
http://polyhymnion.org
Stefan Nowak
2004-06-23 21:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian Tuwim
Weiss Recordings - Barto / Naxos
The Vol.1 is a bit problematic acoustically, you should get 4,5 and 6
before forming an opinion.
Hey, thanks Julian, good to hear, I will give it a try.

Unfortunately I am not able to listen to the samples on the Naxos
homepage. I know that you can´t listen to the whole tracks anymore, but
now I can´t listen to anything, not even a snippet :-( After logging in
and klicking on the sound sample nothing happens except the login mask
appears again.

Anyway, thanks for your tipp!

Stefan
Julian Tuwim
2004-06-26 00:56:42 UTC
Permalink
There is a complete Sonata by JBHagen in MP3 on Barto's site:
http://polyhymnion.org/barto
JT
Post by Stefan Nowak
Post by Julian Tuwim
Weiss Recordings - Barto / Naxos
The Vol.1 is a bit problematic acoustically, you should get 4,5 and 6
before forming an opinion.
Hey, thanks Julian, good to hear, I will give it a try.
Unfortunately I am not able to listen to the samples on the Naxos
homepage. I know that you can´t listen to the whole tracks anymore, but
now I can´t listen to anything, not even a snippet :-( After logging in
and klicking on the sound sample nothing happens except the login mask
appears again.
Anyway, thanks for your tipp!
Stefan
John Wasak
2004-06-23 22:08:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Nowak
I wonder if I am the only one who is not so utterly impressed with the
Weiss Recordings (Robert Barto) on Naxos? IŽve googled the groups and
everyone seems to rave about them... For my taste they are played to
introverted and "muddled". You know what I mean? In my understanding is
WeissŽs music more "masculine" than the former french school of lute
music.
Some people recommended also the Lutz Kirchhof interpretations. I went
to amazon and listened to some examples and IŽm quite impressed. He has
an very "expressionist" and down to earth style, he play the Suites more
*Bach-like* with good phrasing and strong dynamics.
Any opinions?
Well, I like 'em. (Barto's, that is) Then again, I also like Nigel North's
playing of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas, Hopkinson Smith's playing of the
Bach Lute Works and Paul O'Dette's playing of Dowland. So exactly what does
all that mean?.....

No idea.


jw
Post by Stefan Nowak
I have to admit that I only have the First Barto-Weiss Cd,
are the others different?
Stefan
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000262CT/qid=1088010970/sr=1-4/ref=s
r_1_10_4/028-2677740-7348500
Stefan Nowak
2004-06-24 06:18:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Wasak
Barto Weiss Recordings
Well, I like 'em. (Barto's, that is) Then again, I also like Nigel
North's playing of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas, Hopkinson Smith's
playing of the Bach Lute Works and Paul O'Dette's playing of Dowland.
So exactly what does all that mean?.....
That means there is a bunch of good lute music around :-)

Seriously, my point was that I think the approach to Weiss' music should
be different to other earlier lute music, because (as the liner notes in
the CD say) Weiss seemed to be heavily influenced by the "Italian Opera
Style", the melody lines seem to sing with belcanto.
Thus a restrained approach to his music doesn´t seem to be appropriate.
You have to play his music a little bit (melo)dramatically and
"belcanto" _IMHO_.

And my second point was that maybe someone could point out a new kind of
perception of Bartos recordings to me, one that I haven´t considered
yet.

But I will give the later one´s in the series a listen, that was a good
hint.
Post by John Wasak
No idea.
Hey, I´m always eager for good reasoned recommondations :-) By the way I
like Hopkinson Smith´ Kapsberger stuff a lot, but I haven´t got any time
now to explain, because I have to get to work, it´s a quarter past 8
a.m. now in Austria *yawn* :-)

Stefan
no spam
2004-06-24 11:51:01 UTC
Permalink
Speaking of Girolamo Kapsberger, there's quite a bit around, including a nice CD by Paul O'Dette,
"Il Tedesco della Tiorba: Pieces for Lute" (Harmonia Mundi France 907020).

Even more excting has been the discovery just last year of Kapsberger's long lost _Libro Terzo
d'Intavolatura di Chitarrone_ (Rome 1626). It was purchased by the Yale University Library from a
private individual, and they didn't realize that it is the only copy in existence. It has already
been recorded by Diego Cantalupi (Cremona MVC 002009). The CD also includes a FACSIMILE of the
entire tablature!! So you get the sounds and the score all packed onto one CD.

beau gus.
Post by Stefan Nowak
Post by John Wasak
Barto Weiss Recordings
Well, I like 'em. (Barto's, that is) Then again, I also like Nigel
North's playing of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas, Hopkinson Smith's
playing of the Bach Lute Works and Paul O'Dette's playing of Dowland.
So exactly what does all that mean?.....
That means there is a bunch of good lute music around :-)
Seriously, my point was that I think the approach to Weiss' music should
be different to other earlier lute music, because (as the liner notes in
the CD say) Weiss seemed to be heavily influenced by the "Italian Opera
Style", the melody lines seem to sing with belcanto.
Thus a restrained approach to his music doesnŽt seem to be appropriate.
You have to play his music a little bit (melo)dramatically and
"belcanto" _IMHO_.
And my second point was that maybe someone could point out a new kind of
perception of Bartos recordings to me, one that I havenŽt considered
yet.
But I will give the later oneŽs in the series a listen, that was a good
hint.
Post by John Wasak
No idea.
Hey, IŽm always eager for good reasoned recommondations :-) By the way I
like Hopkinson SmithŽ Kapsberger stuff a lot, but I havenŽt got any time
now to explain, because I have to get to work, itŽs a quarter past 8
a.m. now in Austria *yawn* :-)
Stefan
Richard Yates
2004-06-24 13:55:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by no spam
Even more excting has been the discovery just last year of Kapsberger's
long lost _Libro Terzo
Post by no spam
d'Intavolatura di Chitarrone_ (Rome 1626). It was purchased by the Yale
University Library from a
Post by no spam
private individual, and they didn't realize that it is the only copy in
existence. It has already
Post by no spam
been recorded by Diego Cantalupi (Cremona MVC 002009). The CD also
includes a FACSIMILE of the
Post by no spam
entire tablature!! So you get the sounds and the score all packed onto one CD.
Thanks for the tip, nospam. I did some guitar transcriptions of Kapsberger a
few years ago for Soundboard (Fall, 2000). It is a headache to convert the
reentrant tuning of the chitaronne to standard notation but well worth it.
Kapsberger is a sadly neglected master.

Richard Yates
no spam
2004-06-24 22:22:28 UTC
Permalink
Dear Richard,

I think Kapsberger's popularity is on the rise. I'm not a particularly avid CD collector, but I
must have 5 or 6 CDs entirely or partially devoted to Kapsberger. He was quite an innovator like
his contemporaries Monteverdi and Frescobaldi. He composed at least two operas in the monodic
style One is on the St. Ignatius story and was broadcast a few years ago on BBC (I know the person
who copied the parts in pen and ink for a per note fee), and was given a semi-professional staged
production at Boston College to celebrate the 500th anniversary of St, Ignatius (He founded the
Jesuits, the order that runs BC). They had packed houses for some four or five performances. I
kick myself for only going once.

The driving force behind the production was Father Frank Kennedy, who has made many startling
discoveries looking through old church libraries and parish house attics in South America. He
found, for example, otherwise unknown keyboard music by Padre Antonio Soler, and I'm waiting for him
to bring back manuscripts of baroque guitar and vihuela music. There's gotta be some down there.
Probably lots of it.
Post by no spam
Post by no spam
Even more excting has been the discovery just last year of Kapsberger's
long lost _Libro Terzo
Post by no spam
d'Intavolatura di Chitarrone_ (Rome 1626). It was purchased by the Yale
University Library from a
Post by no spam
private individual, and they didn't realize that it is the only copy in
existence. It has already
Post by no spam
been recorded by Diego Cantalupi (Cremona MVC 002009). The CD also
includes a FACSIMILE of the
Post by no spam
entire tablature!! So you get the sounds and the score all packed onto one
CD.
Thanks for the tip, nospam. I did some guitar transcriptions of Kapsberger a
few years ago for Soundboard (Fall, 2000). It is a headache to convert the
reentrant tuning of the chitaronne to standard notation but well worth it.
Kapsberger is a sadly neglected master.
Richard Yates
Tom Poore
2004-06-24 15:10:53 UTC
Permalink
Does anyone have guitarist William Matthews' 1973 Vox Turnabout LP? He
recorded Weiss, Logy, and Baron. Not a lute recording, of course, but
one of the best, most lively recordings of baroque lute music I've
heard. Also not the cleanest playing, but clean enough to put across
the music. It's also a virtual clinic on how to do ornamentation with
spirit and taste.

Tom Poore
Cleveland Heights, OH
USA
no spam
2004-06-24 18:40:37 UTC
Permalink
There is now a two CD set "Galant Guitar" lute music played by Per Kjetil Farstad on 8-string
guitar. His playing is superb, quite clean and with all the right ornaments, which he studied in
his doctoral disssertation and about which he has written in some journa; articles. He teaches at a
conservatory in Norway.

CD # LYNOR 9915. It has suites and partitas by Baron, Falckenhaggen, Hagen and Weiss. One of my
favorite CDs of this repertory.

And Tom, stick your head out your upstairrs bedroom window on Monday evening and you'll hear Baroque
lute music filtering down from CWRU. Robert BARTO and Paul BEIER are playing that eveing starting
at 7 p.m. (more info at www.lutesocietyofamerica.org)
Post by Tom Poore
Does anyone have guitarist William Matthews' 1973 Vox Turnabout LP? He
recorded Weiss, Logy, and Baron. Not a lute recording, of course, but
one of the best, most lively recordings of baroque lute music I've
heard. Also not the cleanest playing, but clean enough to put across
the music. It's also a virtual clinic on how to do ornamentation with
spirit and taste.
Tom Poore
Cleveland Heights, OH
USA
Alpha_Omega
2004-06-24 16:03:18 UTC
Permalink
Sounds good...can you suggest a source for purchasing it, particularly in
the US? Thanks.
Post by no spam
There is now a two CD set "Galant Guitar" lute music played by Per Kjetil Farstad on 8-string
guitar. His playing is superb, quite clean and with all the right
ornaments, which he studied in
Post by no spam
his doctoral disssertation and about which he has written in some journa;
articles. He teaches at a
Post by no spam
conservatory in Norway.
CD # LYNOR 9915. It has suites and partitas by Baron, Falckenhaggen,
Hagen and Weiss. One of my
Post by no spam
favorite CDs of this repertory.
no spam
2004-06-24 21:27:17 UTC
Permalink
You can always try 1-800 ASK-TOWER. I see no web site on this CD from 1999. But Lynor may have
since established one. Or you might wish to write directly to Per (Per Kjetil Farstad). His e-mail
address is

***@online.no

His dissertation from Goeteborg University is published, _German Galant Lute Music in the 18th
Century_ (2000). It is an excellent, in-depth study of the repertory, and contains many complete
pieces arranged for the 8-string guitar, including that most virtuoso of lute pieces the Locatelli
variations by Hagen, which Per also recoded on that CD. Try that one and you'll understand why it's
necessary to practice your scales every day.<g>

Another place to try would be Kenneth Sparr's web page "Tabulatura." He may be able to take payment
with a credit card. He is a guitarist/lutenist in Sweden who sells music and accessories.
Post by Alpha_Omega
Sounds good...can you suggest a source for purchasing it, particularly in
the US? Thanks.
Post by no spam
There is now a two CD set "Galant Guitar" lute music played by Per Kjetil
Farstad on 8-string
Post by no spam
guitar. His playing is superb, quite clean and with all the right
ornaments, which he studied in
Post by no spam
his doctoral disssertation and about which he has written in some journa;
articles. He teaches at a