Discussion:
New Bach editions by Nigel North
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Tashi
2006-10-29 23:26:36 UTC
Permalink
I saw on Nigel North's website he is working on new editions of Bach's
violin and cello suites for lute, guitar and keyborad, I assume all in
one edition. Anyone out there know when they might be published?
Can't wait! Check it out.
http://www.nigelnorth.com/publications.html

MT
leao43grams
2006-10-31 12:55:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
I saw on Nigel North's website he is working on new editions of Bach's
violin and cello suites for lute, guitar and keyborad, I assume all in
one edition. Anyone out there know when they might be published?
Can't wait! Check it out.
http://www.nigelnorth.com/publications.html
MT
When I go to a guitar recital if there is Bach on the program I
will ask for my money back. Bach should never be played on guitar.

Regards,
Jaquinn Teilke
Rudi Menter
2006-10-31 13:52:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by leao43grams
Post by Tashi
I saw on Nigel North's website he is working on new editions of Bach's
violin and cello suites for lute, guitar and keyborad, I assume all in
one edition. Anyone out there know when they might be published?
Can't wait! Check it out.
http://www.nigelnorth.com/publications.html
MT
When I go to a guitar recital if there is Bach on the program I
will ask for my money back. Bach should never be played on guitar.
Yep, please stay out and keep doing so.
Tashi
2006-10-31 14:31:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudi Menter
Post by leao43grams
Post by Tashi
I saw on Nigel North's website he is working on new editions of Bach's
violin and cello suites for lute, guitar and keyborad, I assume all in
one edition. Anyone out there know when they might be published?
Can't wait! Check it out.
http://www.nigelnorth.com/publications.html
MT
When I go to a guitar recital if there is Bach on the program I
will ask for my money back. Bach should never be played on guitar.
Yep, please stay out and keep doing so.
I have no problem getting my money back, as most guitarists feel
ashamed and guilty at trying to make the thing look like a serious
instrument, in the first place.

Regards,

Jaquinn Tielke
Rudi Menter
2006-10-31 14:41:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
I have no problem getting my money back, as most guitarists feel
ashamed and guilty at trying to make the thing look like a serious
instrument, in the first place.
Fine.
Got some more news? Perhaps a little bit interesting ones...
Kleoeo21
2006-10-31 14:45:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudi Menter
Post by Tashi
I have no problem getting my money back, as most guitarists feel
ashamed and guilty at trying to make the thing look like a serious
instrument, in the first place.
Fine.
Got some more news? Perhaps a little bit interesting ones...
Yea, there's a new edition of Carrulli Opus 60 coming out soon, by
Theodore Pilkington.
MT
Kleoeo21
2006-10-31 15:04:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudi Menter
Post by Tashi
I have no problem getting my money back, as most guitarists feel
ashamed and guilty at trying to make the thing look like a serious
instrument, in the first place.
Fine.
Got some more news? Perhaps a little bit interesting ones...
Quite frankly if you must transcribe Bach, which I don't think you
should, but if you have to, here is an example of how it should be
done.
https://www.cherry-classics.com/sheetMusicFrame.html

Kind regards,
Theodore
Tashi
2006-10-31 15:06:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kleoeo21
Post by Rudi Menter
Post by Tashi
I have no problem getting my money back, as most guitarists feel
ashamed and guilty at trying to make the thing look like a serious
instrument, in the first place.
Fine.
Got some more news? Perhaps a little bit interesting ones...
Quite frankly if you must transcribe Bach, which I don't think you
should, but if you have to, here is an example of how it should be
done.
https://www.cherry-classics.com/sheetMusicFrame.html
Kind regards,
Theodore
Theodore, your a moran!
MT
Rudi Menter
2006-10-31 16:07:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kleoeo21
Post by Rudi Menter
Post by Tashi
I have no problem getting my money back, as most guitarists feel
ashamed and guilty at trying to make the thing look like a serious
instrument, in the first place.
Fine.
Got some more news? Perhaps a little bit interesting ones...
Quite frankly if you must transcribe Bach, which I don't think you
should, but if you have to, here is an example of how it should be
done.
https://www.cherry-classics.com/sheetMusicFrame.html
Theodore, your a moron!
Yes it is ;) And truly so.

Btw would Bach himself never have cared about marginals
relating to his absolute music. So, for instance, the
versions of instrumentation of the same piece sometime
ranges freely from organ or choir to harpsichord, which
is an extreme contrast due to the sustain of the tones.

The same holds with every other detail, like, for
example, the key!

Here is a proof: the fugues of BVW 1001 and BWV 539 are
exactly alike, except that BVW 1001 is written for the
solo violin in g minor, while BWV 539 is written for
the organ in d minor...

Regards
--
Tashi
2006-11-01 14:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudi Menter
Post by Kleoeo21
Post by Rudi Menter
Post by Tashi
I have no problem getting my money back, as most guitarists feel
ashamed and guilty at trying to make the thing look like a serious
instrument, in the first place.
Fine.
Got some more news? Perhaps a little bit interesting ones...
Quite frankly if you must transcribe Bach, which I don't think you
should, but if you have to, here is an example of how it should be
done.
https://www.cherry-classics.com/sheetMusicFrame.html
Theodore, your a moron!
Yes it is ;) And truly so.
Btw would Bach himself never have cared about marginals
relating to his absolute music. So, for instance, the
versions of instrumentation of the same piece sometime
ranges freely from organ or choir to harpsichord, which
is an extreme contrast due to the sustain of the tones.
The same holds with every other detail, like, for
example, the key!
Here is a proof: the fugues of BVW 1001 and BWV 539 are
exactly alike, except that BVW 1001 is written for the
solo violin in g minor, while BWV 539 is written for
the organ in d minor...
Regards
Exactly so! Bach could careless about the key. He used any good
theme in many arrangements, in many different keys. The question
remains is the 6 string guitar suitable for Bach's lute and keyboard
music? There was no 6 string guitar in Bach's time. I can't help but
to think he would have found it strange, in many ways.

MT
Post by Rudi Menter
--
Rudi Menter
2006-11-01 17:38:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Exactly so! Bach could careless about the key. He used any good
theme in many arrangements, in many different keys. The question
remains is the 6 string guitar suitable for Bach's lute and keyboard
music? There was no 6 string guitar in Bach's time. I can't help but
to think he would have found it strange, in many ways.
Nah, now, 6 is even more strings than 4 strings, so we could at
least play the works for solo violin and cello the original way ;)

Regards
--
Tashi
2006-11-01 18:13:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudi Menter
Post by Tashi
Exactly so! Bach could careless about the key. He used any good
theme in many arrangements, in many different keys. The question
remains is the 6 string guitar suitable for Bach's lute and keyboard
music? There was no 6 string guitar in Bach's time. I can't help but
to think he would have found it strange, in many ways.
Nah, now, 6 is even more strings than 4 strings, so we could at
least play the works for solo violin and cello the original way ;)
Regards
Yes in a generalized way your idea makes sense. However, one
string on either the violin or cello is infinitely more dynamic than
one string on the guitar. To me the number of strings argument no
longer makes sense to me. One it seems must compensate for the lack of
dynamics in the guitar for a more dynamic polyphonic range. A concept
of course no one who plays guitar will admit to.

MT
Post by Rudi Menter
--
Andrew Schulman
2006-11-01 15:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudi Menter
Here is a proof: the fugues of BVW 1001 and BWV 539 are
exactly alike, except that BVW 1001 is written for the
solo violin in g minor, while BWV 539 is written for
the organ in d minor...
The form is basically the same, although the exposition is a little
different; but there are many, many changes in details besides the key
change. They are not exactly alike.

Andrew
Rudi Menter
2006-11-01 17:47:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Schulman
The form is basically the same, although the exposition is a little
different; but there are many, many changes in details besides the key
change. They are not exactly alike.
Right, the more it shows that the music itself is the item,
not the instrument, or other details. It is just one example,
but one that includes music which is common to the guitar...

Details like the key often were and are an issue of practical
matters, like the choir "used". So there is nothing wrong with
when e minor is a bit high, why not do it in d minor, etc.

Regards
--
Andrew Schulman
2006-11-01 22:41:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudi Menter
Right, the more it shows that the music itself is the item,
not the instrument, or other details. It is just one example,
but one that includes music which is common to the guitar...
Details like the key often were and are an issue of practical
matters, like the choir "used". So there is nothing wrong with
when e minor is a bit high, why not do it in d minor, etc.
An examination of BWV 539 & 1001 (1001 is in autograph score, 539 isn't
but most of the eminent scholars who have commented about it consider
it to be authentic) shows to what extent Bach takes into consideration
the instrument. As you would imagine, the organ version (known as "The
Fiddle Fugue") is much more elaborate harmonically and in figuration
than the violin version.

I had always played a version of my own for 8-string guitar of this
fugue, that was based on the lute arrangement by Weyrauch, BWV 1000,
but with quite a few passages from the violin version. When Richard
Yates posted about 1001 a few months ago I re-examined 539 and made
numerous changes. I wound up having to scale back some of the things I
took from 539 because they were not idiomatic.

And this is the great thing about Bach's transcriptions of his works
and those of others, they are always idiomatic. And to be idiomatic
means you must take into account the instrument you are transcribing
to.

Andrew
http://www.abacaproductions.com/
Rudi Menter
2006-11-01 23:29:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Schulman