Discussion:
New piece for guitar by Mark Delpriora
(too old to reply)
f***@yahoo.com
2005-10-03 22:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Hi All,

I have a new piece published by the great Matanya Orphee entitled
"Pocket Sonata". There is an excellent cover illustration by Zaryana
Bogatyrova .

http://www.orphee.com/solos/Delpocket.html

best,
Mark Delpriora
Mark & Steven Bornfeld
2005-10-03 23:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@yahoo.com
Hi All,
I have a new piece published by the great Matanya Orphee entitled
"Pocket Sonata". There is an excellent cover illustration by Zaryana
Bogatyrova .
http://www.orphee.com/solos/Delpocket.html
best,
Mark Delpriora
Looking forward to this. Is it really printed on itty-bitty paper?

Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
Mick Stranaham
2005-10-04 03:29:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld
Looking forward to this. Is it really printed on itty-bitty paper?
Steve
Nah, that chick just has a huge dumper.
s***@yahoo.com
2005-10-08 12:35:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@yahoo.com
Hi All,
I have a new piece published by the great Matanya Orphee entitled
"Pocket Sonata". There is an excellent cover illustration by Zaryana
Bogatyrova .
http://www.orphee.com/solos/Delpocket.html
best,
Mark Delpriora
The cover illustration to your new piece is very similar to the poster
ad and DVD cover for this recent movie The Sisterhood of the Traveling
Pants.

http://www.impawards.com/2005/posters/sisterhood_of_the_traveling_pants.j
pg
Nick Roche
2005-10-08 17:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by f***@yahoo.com
Mark Delpriora
The cover illustration to your new piece is very similar to the poster
ad and DVD cover for this recent movie The Sisterhood of the Traveling
Pants.
Loading Image...
and he is quite right - maybe there will be a court case!
Larry Deack
2005-10-08 17:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Roche
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by f***@yahoo.com
Mark Delpriora
The cover illustration to your new piece is very similar to the poster
ad and DVD cover for this recent movie The Sisterhood of the Traveling
Pants.
http://www.impawards.com/2005/posters/sisterhood_of_the_traveling_pants.jpg
and he is quite right - maybe there will be a court case!
I doubt it. This was a cover of a classic book that I still have.

Pocket Beatles(TM) - for guitar
ISBN: 0-89524-126-9
Copyright (C) 1960 ATV MUSIC PUBLICATIONS

On the cover is almost the same image with the work POCKET sticking
out of the back pocket and part of a guitar shown one the left as if it
was slung over her shoulder. I can't find an image of it on the web with
a quick search.
Larry Deack
2005-10-08 23:34:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Pocket Beatles(TM) - for guitar
ISBN: 0-89524-126-9
Copyright (C) 1960 ATV MUSIC PUBLICATIONS
1980

Yet another brain fart. The music inside is all copyright after 1960.
Sam Culotta
2005-10-08 18:21:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by f***@yahoo.com
Hi All,
I have a new piece published by the great Matanya Orphee entitled
"Pocket Sonata". There is an excellent cover illustration by Zaryana
Bogatyrova .
http://www.orphee.com/solos/Delpocket.html
best,
Mark Delpriora
The cover illustration to your new piece is very similar to the poster
ad and DVD cover for this recent movie The Sisterhood of the Traveling
Pants.
Shakespeare was right.. there's nothing new under the sun.

Sam
Post by s***@yahoo.com
http://www.impawards.com/2005/posters/sisterhood_of_the_traveling_pants.j
pg
Mark & Steven Bornfeld
2005-10-08 18:46:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Culotta
Shakespeare was right.. there's nothing new under the sun.
Sam
Well, certainly not pics of womens' butts in jeans.

Steve
Post by Sam Culotta
Post by s***@yahoo.com
http://www.impawards.com/2005/posters/sisterhood_of_the_traveling_pants.j
pg
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
Sam Culotta
2005-10-08 18:53:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld
Post by Sam Culotta
Shakespeare was right.. there's nothing new under the sun.
Sam
Well, certainly not pics of womens' butts in jeans.
Steve
And, nothing new under the jeans either. But as with a sunrise, we never
tire of looking.

Sam
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld
Post by Sam Culotta
Post by s***@yahoo.com
http://www.impawards.com/2005/posters/sisterhood_of_the_traveling_pants.j
pg
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
Matanya Ophee
2005-10-08 18:59:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld
Post by Sam Culotta
Shakespeare was right.. there's nothing new under the sun.
Sam
Well, certainly not pics of womens' butts in jeans.
This pre-occupation with the butt in jeans misses the point of the
cover which is the _pocket_, and what's sticking out of it. As far as
I know, there is no copyright protection for the image of a nice
female derriere in jeans, and there is no copyright protection for the
Droste effect (http://tinyurl.com/964hq) depicted by the pocket
stuffing. But should somebody wish to sue me for this, that would be
lovely. By the time the suit was settled, this would have become one
of the most sought after pieces of guitar music...

Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
Larry Deack
2005-10-08 19:13:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
This pre-occupation with the butt in jeans misses the point of the
cover which is the _pocket_, and what's sticking out of it. As far as
I know, there is no copyright protection for the image of a nice
female derriere in jeans, and there is no copyright protection for the
Droste effect (http://tinyurl.com/964hq) depicted by the pocket
stuffing. But should somebody wish to sue me for this, that would be
lovely. By the time the suit was settled, this would have become one
of the most sought after pieces of guitar music...
Using the "pocket" idea and image may be under copyright by ATV music
publications. The recursive part for the orignal POCKET book cover was
that the title "POCKET" was repeated sticking out of the pocket and the
Droste is also recursive and even more like the original marketing idea.
IANAL

It sould be interesting to see if it drives up sales. I'll be buying
it soon either way. Congratulations to both of you and I hope you guys
can do more. I will but anything Mark publishes with you, great music
and art for such a nice price :-)
Larry Deack
2005-10-08 19:17:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
I will but anything
Geeeeeezzzzz... BUY.... and that wasn't the only typo!
Sam Culotta
2005-10-08 19:45:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Larry Deack
I will but anything
Geeeeeezzzzz... BUY.... and that wasn't the only typo!
Seems more Freudian than typographic :-)
Matanya Ophee
2005-10-08 20:29:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Using the "pocket" idea and image may be under copyright by ATV music
publications. The recursive part for the orignal POCKET book cover was
that the title "POCKET" was repeated sticking out of the pocket and the
Droste is also recursive and even more like the original marketing idea.
The idea itself is not original by anybody. It was discussed in the
context of logic, levels of abstration, etc for millenia. The use of
the so-called Droste Effect by Escher is well known.

http://escherdroste.math.leidenuniv.nl/

The Beatles Pocket book designer will have a hard time claiming a
copyright on the design idea.

Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
Larry Deack
2005-10-08 20:57:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
The idea itself is not original by anybody. It was discussed in the
context of logic, levels of abstration, etc for millenia. The use of
the so-called Droste Effect by Escher is well known.
http://escherdroste.math.leidenuniv.nl/
Yes, we covered this in RMCG before.

You use several elements of the same design as a well established
product line.

1) Picture of the same midsection of a woman in blue jeans, in the same
pose.
2) The Pocket _______ Title.
3) The same book showing recursively in the same RH pocket of the jeans.
(their's is not a Droste but close)
4) Both use the same RGBY colors except the R & G are reversed.
5) Both are music publications.
Post by Matanya Ophee
The Beatles Pocket book designer will have a hard time claiming a
copyright on the design idea.
The whole is the design and not just the recursive part. How close to
Mickey Mouse does the image on your product have to be before Disney sues?

IMNAL

YMMV
Matanya Ophee
2005-10-08 22:42:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
You use several elements of the same design as a well established
product line.
It would be a long stretch to claim that Mark Delpriora's music for
the classical guitar is in any way in the same product line as the
Beatles.
Post by Larry Deack
1) Picture of the same midsection of a woman in blue jeans, in the same
pose.
That and about 36,000 other such pictures available, with, or without
jeans.
Post by Larry Deack
2) The Pocket _______ Title.
Is the word "Pocket" in the title a trade mark owned by somebody?
Post by Larry Deack
3) The same book showing recursively in the same RH pocket of the jeans.
(their's is not a Droste but close)
4) Both use the same RGBY colors except the R & G are reversed.
Sorry, we use the CMYK color scheme in the actual print. RGB is used
only for the web. But I am not sure anyone can claim copyright on the
image of blue jeans. If they did, there wouldn't be so many companies,
besides Levy Strauss, making blue jeans.
Post by Larry Deack
5) Both are music publications.
Would you find the two publications side by side in the bins of your
local music store? are they both for classical guitar? I am not
familiar with this work so I looked for it. This is the description as
found on the abebooks.com (http://tinyurl.com/9aybv) :

"....Book Description: Cherry Lane Music Co, Inc, 1980, 1980. Mass
Market Paperback. Book Condition: Very Good. Mass Market Paperback.
Over 120 great songs with melody, chords and full lyrics. 256 pp....:

I also note there are at least 4-5 other books which contain the words
"pocket beatles in the title. Incidentally, the book you describe is
not listed in Amazon.com so it must be out of print.
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Matanya Ophee
The Beatles Pocket book designer will have a hard time claiming a
copyright on the design idea.
The whole is the design and not just the recursive part. How close to
Mickey Mouse does the image on your product have to be before Disney sues?
Does not apply. Micky Mouse is a registered trade mark. Pocket Sonata,
blue jeans and a female ass is not.

Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
William D Clinger
2005-10-08 23:20:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Sorry, we use the CMYK color scheme in the actual print.
RGB is used only for the web.
LOL!

Will
Larry Deack
2005-10-08 23:26:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
It would be a long stretch to claim that Mark Delpriora's music for
the classical guitar is in any way in the same product line as the
Beatles.
Apple computer was sued by the Beatles' company Apple when the
computer company started getting into digital music.
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Larry Deack
1) Picture of the same midsection of a woman in blue jeans, in the same
pose.
That and about 36,000 other such pictures available, with, or without
jeans.
I think a scan of this book cover might make it really clear. I doubt
any of the others come as close as these two do. It's quite striking.
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Larry Deack
2) The Pocket _______ Title.
Is the word "Pocket" in the title a trade mark owned by somebody?
"Pocket Beatles" is trade marked. Switch sonata with Beatles and...
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Larry Deack
3) The same book showing recursively in the same RH pocket of the jeans.
(their's is not a Droste but close)
4) Both use the same RGBY colors except the R & G are reversed.
Sorry, we use the CMYK color scheme in the actual print.
You are funny.
Post by Matanya Ophee
RGB is used only for the web.
Very funny!
Post by Matanya Ophee
I also note there are at least 4-5 other books which contain the words
"pocket beatles in the title. Incidentally, the book you describe is
not listed in Amazon.com so it must be out of print.
Interesting. It's a classic so I'm sure collectors can find it. Hey,
maybe mine is worth something! :-)
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Matanya Ophee
The Beatles Pocket book designer will have a hard time claiming a
copyright on the design idea.
All they have to do is show prior art for a valid claim. Side by side
makes it very credible to the three people who have seen them together
at this house. YJMV
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Larry Deack
The whole is the design and not just the recursive part. How close to
Mickey Mouse does the image on your product have to be before Disney sues?
Does not apply. Micky Mouse is a registered trade mark. Pocket Sonata,
blue jeans and a female ass is not.
You may be right but you may also be wrong. Seeing it side by side it
is more convincing than any words I can post here.
Matanya Ophee
2005-10-09 01:20:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Matanya Ophee
Is the word "Pocket" in the title a trade mark owned by somebody?
"Pocket Beatles" is trade marked. Switch sonata with Beatles and...
and you got something else altogether.
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Matanya Ophee
Does not apply. Micky Mouse is a registered trade mark. Pocket Sonata,
blue jeans and a female ass is not.
You may be right but you may also be wrong. Seeing it side by side it
is more convincing than any words I can post here.
Convincing to whom? and on what grounds? I had never seen the book you
have, and I doubt very much the artist, a recent immigrant from the
Ukraine, had ever seen it. The idea was the composer's and if he had
ever seen the book or not is none of my business. Now should this come
to a court case, with you supplying the other party all the possible
arguments for _their_ case (which you have already done publicly), it
is hard to predict how this will turn out. But let me see this book
cover. My edition is not printed just yet.


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
Larry Deack
2005-10-09 01:32:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
But let me see this book
cover. My edition is not printed just yet.
I'll see if I can scan it tomorrow and post it for you. I couldn't
find it on the web.
Matanya Ophee
2005-10-09 01:45:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Matanya Ophee
But let me see this book
cover. My edition is not printed just yet.
I'll see if I can scan it tomorrow and post it for you. I couldn't
find it on the web.
One important detail. You state the publisher of your copy was ATV
Music. All the references on the web say it was published by Cherry
Lane. are we talking about the same book?


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
Larry Deack
2005-10-09 01:52:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
One important detail. You state the publisher of your copy was ATV
Music. All the references on the web say it was published by Cherry
Lane. are we talking about the same book?
Yes. Edited by Milton Okum

ATV Music Publications is on the cover and first page as a copyright
with the ISBN and (all rights reserved). Cherry Lane Music Co, Inc PO
box 4247 Greenwich, CT. 06830 is at the bottom of the first page and on
the back cover where it says Cherry Lane it the exclusive distributor.
Matanya Ophee
2005-10-09 02:28:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Matanya Ophee
But let me see this book
cover. My edition is not printed just yet.
I'll see if I can scan it tomorrow and post it for you. I couldn't
find it on the web.
I found it. Do not bother to scan.

Loading Image...

Now that I see it side by side, I think you are way out of line here
discussing this.




Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
John D. Rimmer
2005-10-09 02:47:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Matanya Ophee
But let me see this book
cover. My edition is not printed just yet.
I'll see if I can scan it tomorrow and post it for you. I couldn't
find it on the web.
I found it. Do not bother to scan.
http://www.tgr7.net/bookscans/used_paperbacks/32.jpg
Now that I see it side by side, I think you are way out of line here
discussing this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah!
Larry Deack
2005-10-09 04:01:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Now that I see it side by side, I think you are way out of line here
discussing this.
You are being funny again.
Matanya Ophee
2005-10-09 16:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Matanya Ophee
Now that I see it side by side, I think you are way out of line here
discussing this.
You are being funny again.
Not funny at all. Upset with you is more like it. The point you
raised, the possibility of Zaryana and/or Mark and or/myself using
copyrighted and trade mark protected image without permission, is too
serious a charge in my business to take lightly. If there was any
grounds to it, I would have had to thank you for keeping me out of
trouble. It would have been easy, at this point of the game, to
discard that cover and substitute it with something else.

But your charge turned out to be false and baseless. There is nothing
in common in both designs and the accusation, repeated by the Clinger
that "the cover, by Zaryana Bogatyrova, cleverly alludes to the Pocket
Beatles but adds the Droste effect" is simply off the wall.

I am upset with you because I take you seriously, and to find out what
it was you were talking about, I spent several hours, with quite a
raised level of anxiety, and all for nothing.

But just to make sure there is nothing to what you allege, I posted
both images in my blog, http://tinyurl.com/77dcn where they can be
seen side by side. Comments by any one will be much appreciated.

And just to makedoubly sure, I will contact the powers to be at Cherry
Lane for their opinion as well.


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
Larry Deack
2005-10-09 17:34:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Not funny at all. Upset with you is more like it.
You ascribe intention to me that I do not have. I was struck by the
cover of Mark's Pocket Sonata and the title so I posted something about
it after seeing that someone else noted the similarity to another photo.
You brought up the legal issues so I provided you with more details.
Post by Matanya Ophee
The point you
raised, the possibility of Zaryana and/or Mark and or/myself using
copyrighted and trade mark protected image without permission,
I followed your lead about the legal issues and provided the
information I had so you could follow up for yourself.
Post by Matanya Ophee
But your charge turned out to be false and baseless.
Not my charge but it was my observation that your cover art was very
familiar when coupled with the title and the image of the book in the
pocket. It was a gut reaction to a familiar image.
Post by Matanya Ophee
And just to makedoubly sure, I will contact the powers to be at Cherry
Lane for their opinion as well.
Hope that works out for you.

Try not to shoot the messengers and learn to ignore the Clinger's of
this world and you might save yourself some discomfort. I am not your
enemy but I admit that I should have taken this off line at your first
mention of the legal issues.

It would be nice to hear more about the music itself instead of this
stuff.
Matanya Ophee
2005-10-09 18:12:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
You brought up the legal issues so I provided you with more details.
The legal issues have been brought up by Nick Roche first, in response
Post by Larry Deack
The cover illustration to your new piece is very similar to the poster
ad and DVD cover for this recent movie The Sisterhood of the Traveling
Pants.
http://www.impawards.com/2005/posters/sisterhood_of_the_traveling_pants.jpg
Which only proves the point that a picture of a chic's ass in jeans is
too wide spread in American advertising for anyone to claim a
copyright on it, or else Cherry Lane would be suing the movie company
by now.


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
Larry Deack
2005-10-09 19:12:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
The legal issues have been brought up by Nick Roche first, in response
Post by s***@yahoo.com
The cover illustration to your new piece is very similar to the poster
ad and DVD cover for this recent movie The Sisterhood of the Traveling
Pants.
http://www.impawards.com/2005/posters/sisterhood_of_the_traveling_pants.jpg
Which only proves the point that a picture of a chic's ass in jeans is
too wide spread in American advertising for anyone to claim a
copyright on it, or else Cherry Lane would be suing the movie company
by now.
Yes. I was wondering if they just used an existing cultural image But
I could find nothing as close as these two images, but then I failed to
find the image of Pocket Beatles that you found.


It's not about just the image that are similar. The titles of books
like the Dummies series cannot be used by others as far as I recall and
this reminded me of the POCKET series but I have no idea if they
actually relate since IANAL

http://www.octapod.org.au/dummies/explanation.html

Although IANAL, I am interested in how intellectual property rights
affect us all and I'm sorry if my curiosity got the better of me.
Matanya Ophee
2005-10-09 20:24:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
It's not about just the image that are similar. The titles of books
like the Dummies series cannot be used by others as far as I recall and
this reminded me of the POCKET series but I have no idea if they
actually relate since IANAL
You don't have to be a lawyer to understand that it is not possible to
appropriate to oneself by copyright or trade mark a single word in the
English language. You can trade mark an expression made up of several
words, but not each of the words separately. And the fact that there
are several Beatles titles which use the words "pocket" and "Beatles",
should indicate to you that what consitutes a protectable trade mark
is the complete senetence, not each separate word in it. If "Pocket"
in "Pocket Books" was protected, then "Pocket Beatles" would be in
deep doo-doo.

Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
John D. Rimmer
2005-10-09 22:58:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Larry Deack
It's not about just the image that are similar. The titles of books
like the Dummies series cannot be used by others as far as I recall and
this reminded me of the POCKET series but I have no idea if they
actually relate since IANAL
You don't have to be a lawyer to understand that it is not possible to
appropriate to oneself by copyright or trade mark a single word in the
English language. You can trade mark an expression made up of several
words, but not each of the words separately. And the fact that there
are several Beatles titles which use the words "pocket" and "Beatles",
should indicate to you that what consitutes a protectable trade mark
is the complete senetence, not each separate word in it. If "Pocket"
in "Pocket Books" was protected, then "Pocket Beatles" would be in
deep doo-doo.
Matanya Ophee
MO,

If you *really* want to mimic a movie poster, then here is one...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083099/posters

On second thought, you need a pocket, don't you? Btw, this movie is a real
hoot! A bit risque in 1981, rather tame, today.

nhoJ
Matanya Ophee
2005-10-09 23:23:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by John D. Rimmer
If you *really* want to mimic a movie poster, then here is one...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083099/posters
On second thought, you need a pocket, don't you? Btw, this movie is a real
hoot! A bit risque in 1981, rather tame, today.
You missed the point of the whole discussion. We mimicked nothing.
Just happened to have some similar elements. But as for your link to
The Nostalgia Fatory... well, you surely know. Nostalgia ain't what it
used to be...
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
John D. Rimmer
2005-10-09 23:49:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by John D. Rimmer
If you *really* want to mimic a movie poster, then here is one...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083099/posters
On second thought, you need a pocket, don't you? Btw, this movie is a real
hoot! A bit risque in 1981, rather tame, today.
You missed the point of the whole discussion. We mimicked nothing.
Just happened to have some similar elements. But as for your link to
The Nostalgia Fatory... well, you surely know. Nostalgia ain't what it
used to be...
Actually, I thought it was a pointless thread from the very first. I saw
your cover and I think it was too much ado about nothing. I just liked that
poster...;)

nhoJ
t***@jhu.edu
2005-10-09 23:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by John D. Rimmer
If you *really* want to mimic a movie poster, then here is one...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083099/posters
The difference is that the ass in your movie poster is attractive. The
ass in MO's book cover is an also ran.
William D Clinger
2005-10-09 17:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
But your charge turned out to be false and baseless. There is nothing
in common in both designs and the accusation, repeated by the Clinger
that "the cover, by Zaryana Bogatyrova, cleverly alludes to the Pocket
Beatles but adds the Droste effect" is simply off the wall.
IANAL, but I'm pretty sure there is nothing illegal
about the allusion, which I understand to have been
Mark's idea, possibly unconscious and/or unknowing.
Furthermore it is an obvious fact that Bogatyrova's
cover adds the Droste effect, which may also have
been Mark's idea for all I know.

I was defending the cover against Larry's intimation
of impropriety, which was indeed baseless IMHO, FWIW.

Will
Larry Deack
2005-10-09 18:00:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by William D Clinger
I was defending the cover against Larry's intimation
of impropriety, which was indeed baseless IMHO, FWIW.
That's funny.
Matanya Ophee
2005-10-09 19:08:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by William D Clinger
Post by Matanya Ophee
But your charge turned out to be false and baseless. There is nothing
in common in both designs and the accusation, repeated by the Clinger
that "the cover, by Zaryana Bogatyrova, cleverly alludes to the Pocket
Beatles but adds the Droste effect" is simply off the wall.
IANAL, but I'm pretty sure there is nothing illegal
about the allusion, which I understand to have been
Mark's idea, possibly unconscious and/or unknowing.
IANAL (I Am Not A Linguist) either, but it seems to me that an
allusion can only be made knowingly and intentionally. If it is
unconscious and/or unknowing, as may well have been the case here, it
is not an allusion but a happenstance.
Post by William D Clinger
Furthermore it is an obvious fact that Bogatyrova's
cover adds the Droste effect, which may also have
been Mark's idea for all I know.
It was.
Post by William D Clinger
I was defending the cover against Larry's intimation
of impropriety, which was indeed baseless IMHO, FWIW.
Thank you.

Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
Larry Deack
2005-10-09 19:18:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by William D Clinger
I was defending the cover against Larry's intimation
of impropriety, which was indeed baseless IMHO, FWIW.
Thank you.
This is getting really funny now. Will and MO in agreement. Mark this
day on your calendar!

You are both welcome for my help in bringing you two together on this.
Carlos Barrientos
2005-10-09 19:24:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by William D Clinger
I was defending the cover against Larry's intimation
of impropriety, which was indeed baseless IMHO, FWIW.
Thank you.
This is getting really funny now. Will and MO in agreement. Mark this
day on your calendar!
You are both welcome for my help in bringing you two together on this.
YA HAD TO GLOAT!

Carlos Barrientos
"mailto:***@sprintmail.com"
Phone: (229)-438-1087

"A musician takes years and years to accomplish the art,
but a critic can become a critic overnight."

Paul Wilbur Klipsch, Audio Engineer Extraordinaire
March 9, 1904 - May 5, 2002
http://www.klipsch.com/newscenter/founder.aspx
Matanya Ophee
2005-10-10 00:38:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
2) The Pocket _______ Title.
Incidentally, Larry, I googled the key words "Pocket Sonata" It turns
out that there are at least 10 musical compositions for various
ensembles, by Templeton, Larsen, Novak and others, all bearing the
same title: Pocket Sonata. Also, there is some kind of a drug called
Pocket Sonata, not sure for what sort of ailment.

Obviously all would be in violation of the ATV copyright if this was a
legal problem. It is then clear that the title is generic and cannot
be owned by anyone.

Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
Larry Deack
2005-10-10 15:16:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Incidentally, Larry, I googled the key words "Pocket Sonata"
More to the point:

"Generic marks are names of the product or service itself and these
terms cannot function as trademarks; such terms include Aspirin,
Consumer Electronics Monthly as a title of a magazine and Pocket Book
for paperback books."

http://www.publaw.com/bolts.html

Hope this helps.
Steven Bornfeld
2005-10-08 19:59:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
This pre-occupation with the butt in jeans misses the point of the
cover which is the _pocket_, and what's sticking out of it. As far as
I know, there is no copyright protection for the image of a nice
female derriere in jeans, and there is no copyright protection for the
Droste effect (http://tinyurl.com/964hq)
LOL!

Steve


depicted by the pocket
Post by Matanya Ophee
stuffing. But should somebody wish to sue me for this, that would be
lovely. By the time the suit was settled, this would have become one
of the most sought after pieces of guitar music...
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0
Arial;}}
{\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove
"nospam" to reply\par
}
William D Clinger
2005-10-08 19:01:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Culotta
Shakespeare was right.. there's nothing new under the sun.
Sam
I love this country club.

Will
Larry Deack
2005-10-08 19:18:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by William D Clinger
I love this country club.
Must be the familiar smell.
Sam Culotta
2005-10-08 19:46:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by William D Clinger
Post by Sam Culotta
Shakespeare was right.. there's nothing new under the sun.
Sam
I love this country club.
Will
It's great.. anyone can join and the membership fee is reasonable.

Sam
William D Clinger
2005-10-08 20:28:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Culotta
Post by William D Clinger
I love this country club.
Will
It's great.. anyone can join and the membership fee is reasonable.
Sam
And "lift, clean, and place" is a permanent local rule.

Will
William D Clinger
2005-10-09 13:12:13 UTC
Permalink
So far we have learned that this new piece was written
by Mark Delpriora, "published by the great Matanya Orphee",
is less than 50 minutes long, does not really fit in one's
hip pocket, and the cover, by Zaryana Bogatyrova, cleverly
alludes to the Pocket Beatles but adds the Droste effect.

Is there anything else the plaid-pants set should know
about this music? Duration, tempi, time signatures, keys,
musical ideas, character, level of difficulty?

Will
Larry Deack
2005-10-09 15:47:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by William D Clinger
Is there anything else the plaid-pants set should know
about this music? Duration, tempi, time signatures, keys,
musical ideas, character, level of difficulty?
Have you tried any of Mark's compositions?

Who are the plaid-pants? 2L2G
Steven Bornfeld
2005-10-09 16:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Post by William D Clinger
Is there anything else the plaid-pants set should know
about this music? Duration, tempi, time signatures, keys,
musical ideas, character, level of difficulty?
Have you tried any of Mark's compositions?
Who are the plaid-pants? 2L2G
If you ever went to a dental convention you'd know.

Steve
--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0
Arial;}}
{\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove
"nospam" to reply\par
}
Larry Deack
2005-10-09 16:39:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Larry Deack
Have you tried any of Mark's compositions?
Who are the plaid-pants? 2L2G
If you ever went to a dental convention you'd know.
You mean Will plays Mark's music at dental conventions?????
Steven Bornfeld
2005-10-09 19:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Larry Deack
Have you tried any of Mark's compositions?
Who are the plaid-pants? 2L2G
If you ever went to a dental convention you'd know.
You mean Will plays Mark's music at dental conventions?????
Man--I'd pay to see that. Wear your hat, Will.

Steve
--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0
Arial;}}
{\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove
"nospam" to reply\par
}
William D Clinger
2005-10-09 19:30:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by Larry Deack
You mean Will plays Mark's music at dental conventions?????
Man--I'd pay to see that. Wear your hat, Will.
Steve
Wow, a paid gig. Let's negotiate the terms. Which
hat? Is it enough for me to wear the hat while
playing Kaleidoscope? Or do I have to wear plaid
pants as well?

Will
William D Clinger
2005-10-09 16:45:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Have you tried any of Mark's compositions?
No, but that doesn't mean he is an insignificant or
unknown composer. Indeed, it puts him in excellent
company! Here is a woefully incomplete list of the
many well-known and illustrious composers whose works
I have never performed in formal concert:

Adolphe (Charles) Adam, John Adams, Jehan (Ariste) Alain, Isaac
Albeniz, Hugo Alfven, (Charles-)Valentin Alkan, Gregorio
Allegri, William Alwyn, Anton Arensky, Daniel-François-Esprit
Auber, Milton Babbitt, Wilhelm Friedemann Bach, Mily Balakirev,
Agustin Barrios Mangore, Bela Bartok, Arnold Bax, Vincenzo
Bellini, Richard Rodney Bennett, Alban Berg, Erik Bergman,
Luciano Berio, Lennox Berkeley, Hector Berlioz, Franz Berwald,
Gilles (de) Binchois, Arthur Bliss, Marc Blitzstein, Ernest
Bloch, John Blow, Fran?ois-Adrien Boieldieu, Joseph Bodin de
Boismortier, Arrigo Boito, Alexander Borodin, Lili Boulanger,
Pierre Boulez, Frank Bridge, Leo Brouwer, Max Bruch, Anton
Bruckner, Nicolaus Bruhns, Ferruccio Busoni, George
Butterworth, Dieterich Buxtehude, Antonio de Cabezon, Giulio
Caccini, John Cage, (Marie-)Joseph Canteloube de Malaret,
Giacomo Carissimi, John Alden Carpenter, Elliott Carter,
Alfredo Casella, Mario Castelnuovo-Tedesco, (Pietro [Pier])
Francesco Cavalli, Emmanuel Chabrier, Gustave Charpentier,
Marc-Antoine Charpentier, Ernest Chausson, Carlos Chavez (y
Ramirez), Domenico Cimarosa, Clemens non Papa [Jacob Clement],
Muzio Clementi, Samuel Coleridge-Taylor, John Corigliano,
François Couperin, Louis Couperin, Henry Cowell, Ruth Crawford
(Seeger), Paul Creston, George Crumb, Cesar Cui, Carl Czerny,
Luigi Dallapiccola, Franz Danzi, Alexander Dargomizhsky, Mario
Davidovsky, Peter Maxwell Davies, (C.P.) Leo Delibes, Frederick
Delius, Norman Dello Joio, Mark Delpriora, David Diamond, Karl
Ditters von Dittersdorf, Ernst von Dohnanyi, Gaetano Donizetti,
Jacob Druckman, Paul Dukas, John Dunstable, Henri Duparc,
Marcel Dupre, Henri Dutilleux, George Enescu [Georges Enesco],
Manuel de Falla, Morton Feldman, Zdenek Fibich, John Field,
Irving Fine, Ross Lee Finney, Gerald Finzi, Friedrich von
Flotow, Lukas Foss, Jean Francaix, Cesar Franck, Robert Franz,
Girolamo Frescobaldi, Johann Joseph Fux, Andrea Gabrieli,
Giovanni Gabrieli, Niels Gade, Francesco Geminiani, Roberto
Gerhard, Angelo Gilardino, Alberto Ginastera, Umberto Giordano,
Philip Glass, Alexander Glazunov, Reinhold Gliere, Mikhail
Glinka, Christoph W.R. von Gluck, Carl Goldmark, Nicolas
Gombert, Henryk Gorecki, Louis Moreau Gottschalk, Charles
Gounod, Enrique Granados, Andre-Ernest-Modeste Gretry, Charles
Tomlinson Griffes, Ferde Grofe, Francisco Guerrero, Alois Haba,
(Jacques-Francois-)Fromental Halevy, Howard Hanson, Lou
Harrison, Johan Peder Emilius [J. P. E.] Hartmann, Karl Amadeus
Hartmann, (Johann) Michael Haydn, Johann David Heinichen, Fanny
Mendelssohn Hensel, Hans Werner Henze, Hildegard of Bingen,
Paul Hindemith, Heinz Holliger, Vagn Holmboe, Gustav Holst,
Arthur Honegger, Johann Nepomuk Hummel, Karel Husa, Vincent
d'Indy, John Ireland, Heinrich Isaac, Michael Jackson, Mick
Jagger, Leos Janacek, Elton John, Andre Jolivet, Nicolo Jommelli,
Dmitri Kabalevsky, Mauricio Kagel, Sigfrid Karg-Elert, Aram
Khachaturian, Charles Koechlin, Joonas Kokkonen, Barbara Kolb,
Erich Wolfgang Korngold, William Kraft, Johann Ludwig Krebs,
Fritz Kreisler, Ernst Krenek, Michel-Richard de Lalande,
Edouard Lalo, (Leonard) Constant Lambert, Jean Langlais,
Lars-Erik Larsson, Pierre de La Rue, Antonio Lauro, Jean-Marie
Leclair, Franz Lehar, Ruggero Leoncavallo, Gyorgy Sandor
Ligeti, Pietro Antonio Locatelli, Matthew Locke, Charles Martin
Loeffler, (Johann) Carl Loewe, Witold Lutoslawski, Luzzasco
Luzzaschi, Anatol[y] Lyadov [Liadov], Edward MacDowell, Bruno
Maderna, Gustav Mahler, Gian Francesco Malipiero, Marin Marais,
Luca Marenzio, Frank Martin, Bohuslav Martinu, Pietro Mascagni,
(Johannes) Simon Mayr, Colin McPhee, Nikolay Medtner,
Etienne-Nicolas Mehul, Fanny Mendelssohn-Hensel, Gian Carlo
Menotti, (Giuseppe) Saverio Mercadante, Giacomo Meyerbeer,
Nikolai Miaskovsky, Darius Milhaud, E. J. Moeran, Federico
Mompou (y Dencausse), Federico Moreno Torroba, Moritz
Moszkowski, Georg Muffat, (Carl) Otto Nicolai, Carl Nielsen,
Luigi Nono, Vitezslav Novak, Jacob Obrecht, Johannes [Okeghem,
Jean] Ockeghem, Pauline Oliveros, Giovanni Pacini, Ignacy Jan
Paderewski, John Knowles Paine, Giovanni Paisiello, Harry
Partch, Bernardo Pasquini, Krzysztof Penderecki, Giovanni
Pergolesi, George Perle, Perotin [Perotinus Magnus] Vincent
Persichetti, Goffredo Petrassi, Hans Erich Pfitzner, Peter
Philips, Astor Piazzolla, (Vito) Niccolo Piccinni, Gabriel
Pierne, Walter Piston, Ildebrando Pizzetti, Manuel Ponce,
Amilcare Ponchielli, Mel Powell, Sergei Prokofiev, Giacomo
Puccini, Johann Joachim Quantz, Sergei Rachmaninov, (Joseph)
Joachim Raff, Maurice Ravel, Max Reger, Steve Reich, Anton
Reicha, Carl Reinecke, Ottorino Respighi, Wallingford Riegger,
Terry Riley, George Rochberg, Joaquin Rodrigo, Cipriano de
Rore, Ned Rorem, Albert Roussel, Anton Rubinstein, Carl
Ruggles, Antonio Salieri, Aulis Sallinen, Giovanni Battista
Sammartini, Pablo de Sarasate, Erik Satie, Giacinto Scelsi,
Heinrich Scheidemann, Johann Hermann Schein, Alfred Schnittke
[Shnitke], Arnold Schoenberg, Franz Schreker, Gunther Schuller,
William Schuman, Clara Wieck Schumann, Robert Schumann,
Heinrich Schutz, Alexander Scriabin, Roger Sessions, Rodion
Shchedrin, Dmitry Shostakovich, Christian Sinding, Bedrich
Smetana, (Padre) Antonio Soler (Ramos), Leo Sowerby, Louis
[Ludwig] Spohr, Gaspare Spontini, Johann [Jan] Stamitz, Karl
Stamitz, Charles Villiers Stanford, (Karl) Wilhelm (Eugen)
Stenhammar, William Grant Still, Karlheinz Stockhausen,
Alessandro Stradella, Josef Suk, Franz von Suppe, Johan
Svendsen, Jan Sweelinck, Karol Szymanowski, Toru Takemitsu,
Sergey Taneyev, Giuseppe Tartini, John Tavener, Alexander
Tcherepnin, (Charles Louis) Ambroise Thomas, Michael Tippett,
Giuseppe Torelli, Joan Tower, Eduard Tubin, Joaquin Turina,
Edgard Varese, Tomas Luis de Victoria, Louis Vierne, Henri
Vieuxtemps, Heitor Villa-Lobos, Giovanni Battista Viotti,
Philippe de Vitry, William Walton, Peter Warlock, Anton (von)
Webern, Matthias Weckmann, Thomas Weelkes, Silvius Leopold
Weiss, Giaches de Wert, Charles-Marie Widor, Adrian Willaert,
Hugo Wolf, Ermanno Wolf-Ferrari, Stefan Wolpe, Charles
Wuorinen, Iannis Xenakis, Frank Zappa, Alexander (von)
Zemlinsky, Ellen Taaffe Zwilich.

Mark can be proud of his place on that list.

Will
f***@yahoo.com
2005-10-13 05:22:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by William D Clinger
Mark can be proud of his place on that list.
Will
Thanks, Will!

Just got in after 5 days in Sacramento and discovered that the cover is
being discarded. A real shame. I don't see the copyright problem of
such a popular image but what do I know!

For the record, I did not know of or ever see the Pocket Beatles book
when I came up with the idea of the "Pocket Sonata" cover.

It really is an obvious idea and gets its zing from being placed in a
classical guitar context

The inspiration for the piece had more to do with Milhaud's 6 Petites
Symphonies and A. Francesco's Lavagnino's "Pocket Symphony"(I own the
score) than anything else, certainly not the Beatles!
(for this piece, anyway)



Mark
William D Clinger
2005-10-13 14:19:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@yahoo.com
Just got in after 5 days in Sacramento and discovered that the cover is
being discarded. A real shame. I don't see the copyright problem of
such a popular image but what do I know!
Yes, a shame. It was a nice cover.
Post by f***@yahoo.com
For the record, I did not know of or ever see the Pocket Beatles book
when I came up with the idea of the "Pocket Sonata" cover.
Then I apologize for suggesting you might have. The connection
lay in the mind of the beholders, but it was a neat connection
nonetheless.
Post by f***@yahoo.com
The inspiration for the piece had more to do with Milhaud's 6 Petites
Symphonies and A. Francesco's Lavagnino's "Pocket Symphony"(I own the
score) than anything else, certainly not the Beatles!
(for this piece, anyway)
Thanks, Mark! I don't know either of those works, but I've
done a couple of sight-readings of Levering's transcription
(for flute and guitar) of Milhaud's Corcovado, from the same
period as the little symphonies.

I look forward to hearing more of your works.

Will
Larry Deack
2005-10-14 04:05:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@yahoo.com
Just got in after 5 days in Sacramento and discovered that the cover is
being discarded. A real shame.
I'm sorry to hear this.

Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...