Discussion:
Not Plutus but Apollo rules Parnassus
(too old to reply)
Larry Deack
2007-11-13 15:56:33 UTC
Permalink
Why become an artist?

______________________________________
For musicians and poets are born such.

-Snip-

Perhaps the hope of future riches and possessions induces you to
choose this life? If this is the case, believe me you must change your
mind; not Plutus but Apollo rules Parnassus. Whoever wants riches must
take another path.
-Aloysius (Gradus ad Parnassum - Fux)
_____________________________________


It seems that this idea of a "starving" artist is quite old and well
ingrained in the literature musicians and artists are taught. It's not a
19th century romantic invention as some claim and it seems to be obvious
to most people who take the time to think about it a bit.

If you want to make lots of money it's not that hard as long as you
are willing to live, breath and think about money as much as you do
about art. For me, well... that's just not going to happen.

Life is about the choices we make.

YMMV
nevergrowup
2007-11-13 16:48:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Why become an artist?
______________________________________
For musicians and poets are born such.
-Snip-
Perhaps the hope of future riches and possessions induces you to choose
this life? If this is the case, believe me you must change your mind; not
Plutus but Apollo rules Parnassus. Whoever wants riches must take another
path.
-Aloysius (Gradus ad Parnassum - Fux)
_____________________________________
It seems that this idea of a "starving" artist is quite old and well
ingrained in the literature musicians and artists are taught. It's not a
19th century romantic invention as some claim and it seems to be obvious
to most people who take the time to think about it a bit.
If you want to make lots of money it's not that hard as long as you are
willing to live, breath and think about money as much as you do about art.
For me, well... that's just not going to happen.
Life is about the choices we make.
YMMV
Right on, Larry. Finish an original painting, play a piece of guitar music
that is your own interpretation, write a novel, stageplay, screen play, or
short story that is totally your own--and you'll see that NO amount of
money can give you that natural high, a high that is so enduring that it
will be extant somewhere in time and space for others, if you allow, to
enjoy even after you've long passed to the ages.
Gene.
Steve Perry
2007-11-13 17:35:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Right on, Larry. Finish an original painting, play a piece of guitar music
that is your own interpretation, write a novel, stageplay, screen play, or
short story that is totally your own--and you'll see that NO amount of
money can give you that natural high, a high that is so enduring that it
will be extant somewhere in time and space for others, if you allow, to
enjoy even after you've long passed to the ages.
Gene.
Well, having managed all those experiences, I can say that, from where
I sit, the sense of accomplishment that comes from *doing* the work is
augmented considerably when somebody then pays you money on top of it
to put the work out where the public can access it.

And that when the work sells, a larger audience doesn't feel any worse
than a smaller one.

My understanding of art, especially these forms, is that such are kinds
of communication -- there is something you wish others to see or hear,
and that which the act of creation is in itself satifsying, it's only
half the equation. A singer can be satisfied by listening to his own
song, a writer can limit himself to a journal, but those experiences
are not as rich as sharing your creation with the society in which you
live.

I don't know any writers who do it for the ages. Most of them write
because they want to tell stories, and the best ones do it for, among
other things, money ...
--
Steve

http://themanwhonevermissed.blogspot.com/
nevergrowup
2007-11-13 18:15:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Perry
Post by Larry Deack
Right on, Larry. Finish an original painting, play a piece of guitar music
that is your own interpretation, write a novel, stageplay, screen play, or
short story that is totally your own--and you'll see that NO amount of
money can give you that natural high, a high that is so enduring that it
will be extant somewhere in time and space for others, if you allow, to
enjoy even after you've long passed to the ages.
Gene.
Well, having managed all those experiences, I can say that, from where
I sit, the sense of accomplishment that comes from *doing* the work is
augmented considerably when somebody then pays you money on top of it
to put the work out where the public can access it.
And that when the work sells, a larger audience doesn't feel any worse
than a smaller one.
My understanding of art, especially these forms, is that such are kinds
of communication -- there is something you wish others to see or hear,
and that which the act of creation is in itself satifsying, it's only
half the equation. A singer can be satisfied by listening to his own
song, a writer can limit himself to a journal, but those experiences
are not as rich as sharing your creation with the society in which you
live.
I don't know any writers who do it for the ages. Most of them write
because they want to tell stories, and the best ones do it for, among
other things, money ...
--
Steve
http://themanwhonevermissed.blogspot.com/
Steve,
They're two different kinds of highs. Everybody needs some kind of money:
we have no choice, if only to meet the basic needs of everyday living.
There is nothing wrong with making money so long as the method of making it
is both legal and honorable. I have never turned down money, although there
have been times when I did not ask for or receive money when I might have
done so.

The other high, the "artsy/fartsy" kind, is different. I've sold paintings
that took me months to design, execute, and finish, yet I've given other
paintings away free of charge. For example, some of the paintings I've
given away as gifts were, in my opinion, worth far more money (on the
market) than some I've sold. In either case, the actual high comes in the
person of creating the original painting--regardless of whatever eventually
becomes of the piece once it's finished.

I may not appear to be much of a writer in my posts because I usually write
quickly and informally in this group. But one of my written works is in
libraries all over this country and, indeed, the world. I never received a
penny for that book, although many have read and referenced my work in
professional writings of their own.

In an entirely different genre of writing, I'm working on a stageplay right
now. When finished, this piece I will market for its message, but if I can
sell it for money, I will. One thing is for certain, however: when I finish
this piece--money or no--it will in its person long outlast me as it has, in
its historical context, long preceded me.

I agree with you that "sharing" is a wonderful thing. Art is for sharing,
although not all agree upon the definition of art. Whatever the mechanism
is, if a feeling of enjoyment is garnered from reading, looking,
listening--using out sensory perceptions and our mental facilities--then the
shared artistic experience is complete.

As for the "ages", I do believe that if anything of a human nature can
survive over time, it is art. When and if mankind goes the way of the
dinosaurs, human art will remain and speak of what once was.
Alcibiades
2007-11-13 17:48:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Why become an artist?
______________________________________
For musicians and poets are born such.
-Snip-
Perhaps the hope of future riches and possessions induces you to
choose this life? If this is the case, believe me you must change your
mind; not Plutus but Apollo rules Parnassus. Whoever wants riches must
take another path.
-Aloysius (Gradus ad Parnassum - Fux)
_____________________________________
It seems that this idea of a "starving" artist is quite old and well
ingrained in the literature musicians and artists are taught. It's not a
19th century romantic invention as some claim and it seems to be obvious
to most people who take the time to think about it a bit.
If you want to make lots of money it's not that hard as long as you
are willing to live, breath and think about money as much as you do
about art. For me, well... that's just not going to happen.
Life is about the choices we make.
YMMV
And what do you think of this quote of C.P.E. Bach, speaking of J.S.
Bach:

"The departed, like myself or any true musician, was no lover of dry,
mathematical stuff."
Larry Deack
2007-11-14 03:00:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alcibiades
And what do you think of this quote of C.P.E. Bach, speaking of J.S.
"The departed, like myself or any true musician, was no lover of dry,
mathematical stuff."
What do you think it means?


BTW, have you read any biographies of Bach yet? IIRC, some friends
tried to get him to join a group of folks who liked math. Do you think
Bach knew any math? Goldberg / Goldbach... I'm smelling something fishy
here... maybe it's some kind of math conspiracy thing, you know... it's
all a sim anyway :-)
Alcibiades
2007-11-14 05:16:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Alcibiades
And what do you think of this quote of C.P.E. Bach, speaking of J.S.
"The departed, like myself or any true musician, was no lover of dry,
mathematical stuff."
What do you think it means?
BTW, have you read any biographies of Bach yet? IIRC, some friends
tried to get him to join a group of folks who liked math. Do you think
Bach knew any math? Goldberg / Goldbach... I'm smelling something fishy
here... maybe it's some kind of math conspiracy thing, you know... it's
all a sim anyway :-)
I'm now reading The New Bach Reader, and am about 3/4 through this
series:

http://tinyurl.com/yudxve

Notice the sale price. Get it. If you do, know that Greenberg is
married with children. This knowledge will relieve some (some) of the
homo vibe distraction. Most importantly, the guy's teaching ability is
awesome. Aside from my father, I've never heard anyone else who can
speak so articulately about music.
Larry Deack
2007-11-14 06:47:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alcibiades
I'm now reading The New Bach Reader, and am about 3/4 through this
http://tinyurl.com/yudxve
Notice the sale price. Get it. If you do, know that Greenberg is
married with children. This knowledge will relieve some (some) of the
homo vibe distraction. Most importantly, the guy's teaching ability is
awesome. Aside from my father, I've never heard anyone else who can
speak so articulately about music.
Counterpoint is to music what calculus is to math. Students avoid
them even though they are fundamental to basic competence.
Alcibiades
2007-11-14 18:04:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Counterpoint is to music what calculus is to math.
True. This is why about a month ago I got this:

http://www.amazon.com/Study-Counterpoint-John-J-Fux/dp/0393002772
Post by Larry Deack
...they are fundamental to basic competence.
False. Counterpoint and calculus occupy the summit, not the fundament,
of music and math. Harmony and arithmetic are the tools of fundamental
competence in music and math. Counterpoint and calculus presuppose
this basic competence.
Tashi
2007-11-14 19:33:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Alcibiades
I'm now reading The New Bach Reader, and am about 3/4 through this
http://tinyurl.com/yudxve
Notice the sale price. Get it. If you do, know that Greenberg is
married with children. This knowledge will relieve some (some) of the
homo vibe distraction. Most importantly, the guy's teaching ability is
awesome. Aside from my father, I've never heard anyone else who can
speak so articulately about music.
Counterpoint is to music what calculus is to math. Students avoid
them even though they are fundamental to basic competence.
There is no calulus in music just simple arithmatic. Sometimes people
can't see the trees through the forest. For a guy who professes to
know so much math etc. your pretty darn clueless.
MT
Alcibiades
2007-11-14 20:02:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Alcibiades
I'm now reading The New Bach Reader, and am about 3/4 through this
http://tinyurl.com/yudxve
Notice the sale price. Get it. If you do, know that Greenberg is
married with children. This knowledge will relieve some (some) of the
homo vibe distraction. Most importantly, the guy's teaching ability is
awesome. Aside from my father, I've never heard anyone else who can
speak so articulately about music.
Counterpoint is to music what calculus is to math. Students avoid
them even though they are fundamental to basic competence.
There is no calulus in music just simple arithmatic. Sometimes people
can't see the trees through the forest. For a guy who professes to
know so much math etc. your pretty darn clueless.
MT
Please, knowledge of much math doesn't preclude error. Einstein is an
excellent example. He failed to embrace either Plato or Catholicism.
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