Discussion:
The True Life of J. S. Bach
(too old to reply)
h***@verizon.net
2008-01-03 03:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Did anyone ever read The True Life of J. S. Bach by Klaus Eidam? I
just did and he has some remarkable things to say about the life of
our favorite guy that seem to turn the stuff I've learned over the
years on its head. I have never read the biographies of JSB by Spitta
and Schwietzer or Terry so it's not possible for me to see exactly how
Mr. Eidam relates to them, even though he directly refers to them over
and over pointing out how he felt they missed important things in
Bach's life.

Seth
Tommy Grand
2008-01-03 03:41:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@verizon.net
Did anyone ever read The True Life of J. S. Bach by Klaus Eidam? I
just did and he has some remarkable things to say about the life of
our favorite guy that seem to turn the stuff I've learned over the
years on its head.
If these facts are so remarkable, why didn't you mention a single one?
Andrew Schulman
2008-01-03 04:35:06 UTC
Permalink
Did anyone ever read The True Life of J. S. Bach by Klaus Eidam?  I
just did and he has some remarkable things to say about the life of
our favorite guy that seem to turn the stuff I've learned over the
years on its head.  I have never read the biographies of JSB by Spitta
and Schwietzer or Terry so it's not possible for me to see exactly how
Mr. Eidam relates to them, even though he directly refers to them over
and over pointing out how he felt they missed important things in
Bach's life.
I just read, over the last few months, the Christoph Wollf bio, "J.S.
Bach: The Learned Musician", and his revised, "The New Bach Reader".
What are some of the things you are referring to?

Andrew
Che
2008-01-03 05:15:36 UTC
Permalink
Did anyone ever read The True Life of J. S. Bach by Klaus Eidam?  I
just did and he has some remarkable things to say about the life of
our favorite guy that seem to turn the stuff I've learned over the
years on its head.  I have never read the biographies of JSB by Spitta
and Schwietzer or Terry so it's not possible for me to see exactly how
Mr. Eidam relates to them, even though he directly refers to them over
and over pointing out how he felt they missed important things in
Bach's life.
Seth
Sir, this is the Barnyard, we demand facts, evidence, information,
knowledge and particulars to support these claims.
Did you read that here: http://tinyurl.com/2jwm3f

Che'
Che
2008-01-03 06:15:03 UTC
Permalink
Did anyone ever read The True Life of J. S. Bach by Klaus Eidam?  I
just did and he has some remarkable things to say about the life of
our favorite guy that seem to turn the stuff I've learned over the
years on its head.  I have never read the biographies of JSB by Spitta
and Schwietzer or Terry so it's not possible for me to see exactly how
Mr. Eidam relates to them, even though he directly refers to them over
and over pointing out how he felt they missed important things in
Bach's life.
Seth
http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=1946
h***@verizon.net
2008-01-03 12:57:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Che
Did anyone ever read The True Life of J. S. Bach by Klaus Eidam?  I
just did and he has some remarkable things to say about the life of
our favorite guy that seem to turn the stuff I've learned over the
years on its head.  I have never read the biographies of JSB by Spitta
and Schwietzer or Terry so it's not possible for me to see exactly how
Mr. Eidam relates to them, even though he directly refers to them over
and over pointing out how he felt they missed important things in
Bach's life.
Seth
http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=1946
OK, OK, I posted in haste and did not put anything but a seemingly
idle question in my post!

I found interesting the way Eidam asserts that Bach did not have
difficulty in Leipzig due to his own uncooperativeness, but due to the
active resistance of the town council there. Also that the St.
Matthew Passion and similar works were not well received by the
council or the townspeople due to being "too operatic".

Another interesting assertion was his statement that Bach was not
"semi-retired" at the end of the time he spent in Leipzig, that he was
actively pushed out by Ernesti, the Thomas School headmaster, and that
during this period, he was truly composing some of his greatest works
and had secured the position of Royal Composer to the king of Poland
in order to protect himself from being further thwarted in his
activities.

Over and over, Eidam dismisses any assertion that Bach was imitating
others in the way he created music such as the Art of the Fugue or the
Goldberg variations and he has no use for the idea that Bach was
forgotten and ignored in the years after his death. He cites many
examples of a select group of great musicians copying and collecting
his scored and disseminating his ideas in their teaching.

One area I found heartbreaking was the description of his two cataract
operations, which caused him to be blind for months and then how as
soon as he recovered his sight, he had a stroke and died!

A tough time to live, the 18th century.

Che, thanks for the above link, it has some of the type of insight
into Eidam's writing that I was looking for.

Seth
Che
2008-01-03 17:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Have you been to the Morgan, Pierpont, Library. 33 E. 36th St. New
York?

Che'
h***@verizon.net
2008-01-03 19:09:31 UTC
Permalink
Have you been to the  Morgan, Pierpont, Library. 33 E. 36th St. New
York?
Che'
I have not. Why do you ask?

S
Che
2008-01-04 01:02:36 UTC
Permalink
Have you been to the  Morgan, Pierpont, Library. 33 E. 36th St. New
York?
Che'
I have not.  Why do you ask?
S
Aside from the traffic it's only a day trip for you. I'll bet you
could take a train. It impressed me as much as any library or museum
as I've visited. It is of particular interest to musicians. There
are musics and recordings the public has no idea exist. Before the
internet I was constantly seeking out great libraries and museums. I
thought it might be the sort of thing that would interest you.
http://www.morganlibrary.org/ I went there to see, for myself, some
rare music. Someone who takes for his/her own this:
or a younger:
and


Che'
h***@verizon.net
2008-01-04 03:48:16 UTC
Permalink
Aside from the traffic it's only a day trip for you.  I'll bet you
could take a train.  It impressed me as much as any library or museum
as I've visited.  It is of particular interest to musicians.  There
are musics and recordings the public has no idea exist.  Before the
internet I was constantly seeking out great libraries and museums.  I
thought it might be the sort of thing that would interest you.http://www.morganlibrary.org/ I went there to see, for myself, some
rare music.  Someone who takes for his/her own
a http://youtu.be/rtfLpyPn_Ao
Che'
Dear Che,

Thanks for pointing out the Morgan Library as a destination! I will
definitely pay it a visit, if only to pay homage to an actual Mozart
autograph score!
And isn't Granados gorgeous! Great video links. I think the best
part of this newsgroup is the sharing of video clip links!

Seth
Che
2008-01-04 08:14:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@verizon.net
Aside from the traffic it's only a day trip for you.  I'll bet you
could take a train.  It impressed me as much as any library or museum
as I've visited.  It is of particular interest to musicians.  There
are musics and recordings the public has no idea exist.  Before the
internet I was constantly seeking out great libraries and museums.  I
thought it might be the sort of thing that would interest you.http://www.morganlibrary.org/ I went there to see, for myself, some
rare music.  Someone who takes for his/her own
http://youtu.be/VzTLBro45JY
Che'
Dear Che,
Thanks for pointing out the Morgan Library as a destination!   I will
definitely pay it a visit, if only to pay homage to an actual Mozart
autograph score!
And isn't Granados gorgeous!  Great video links.   I think the best
part of this newsgroup is the sharing of video clip links!
Seth
I think the best part of this newsgroup is the crazy way it works and
what people say. Hombre, you have to laugh sometimes... I noted this:

Discussion subject changed to "The Fake Life of J.S. Bach" by Tommy
Grand

We can always count on this. Incidentally, to outsiders and newbes,
it may seem like there are a lot of venemous attacks going on in
RMCG. Some of us think it's a good thing in the end, some people just
need that sort of fire and controversy to keep working and motivated
to keep an edge. Its also vital to remain skeptical of everything and
anything (that includes above all, yourself) so controversy really
serves its purpose. People get used to it, and then its all fun and
games thereafter.

When things aren't spitting fire they complain the NG is dying on the
vine. I know some of valued idiots really crack me up an I just sit
and laugh. Most often I'm laughing when crafting the next post. We
just can't take it too serious. We are just making it edgey and dark
or sublime with delight as the notions strike us. What's not to like
about that?

People say there have been a lot of drop-outs over the years. Yep,
most people were reading RMCG at work. This is a known fact pre-911.
There has been a real crack down on internet use in most business
concerns and people are working longer and harder each passing year.
In today's news oil is expected to hit $100 a barrel. That means
$4.00 a gallon gas. That may be an up-side for RMCG...people will
stay home and travel less having more time to read and post. On the
down-side some may have to get a second job!

Che'
j***@gmail.com
2008-01-03 19:11:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@verizon.net
Post by Che
Did anyone ever read The True Life of J. S. Bach by Klaus Eidam?  I
just did and he has some remarkable things to say about the life of
our favorite guy that seem to turn the stuff I've learned over the
years on its head.  I have never read the biographies of JSB by Spitta
and Schwietzer or Terry so it's not possible for me to see exactly how
Mr. Eidam relates to them, even though he directly refers to them over
and over pointing out how he felt they missed important things in
Bach's life.
Seth
http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=1946
OK, OK, I posted in haste and did not put anything but a seemingly
idle question in my post!
I found interesting the way Eidam asserts that Bach did not have
difficulty in Leipzig due to his own uncooperativeness, but due to the
active resistance of the town council there.  Also that the St.
Matthew Passion and similar works were not well received by the
council or the townspeople due to being "too operatic".
Another interesting assertion was his statement that Bach was not
"semi-retired" at the end of the time he spent in Leipzig, that he was
actively pushed out by Ernesti, the Thomas School headmaster, and that
during this period, he was truly composing some of his greatest works
and had secured the position of Royal Composer to the king of Poland
in order to protect himself from being further thwarted in his
activities.
Over and over, Eidam dismisses any assertion that Bach was imitating
others in the way he created music such as the Art of the Fugue or the
Goldberg  variations and he has no use for the idea that Bach was
forgotten and ignored in the years after his death.  He cites many
examples of a select group of great musicians copying and collecting
his scored and disseminating his ideas in their teaching.
One area I found heartbreaking was the description of his two cataract
operations, which caused him to be blind for months and then how as
soon as he recovered his sight, he had a stroke and died!
A tough time to live, the 18th century.
Che, thanks for the above link, it has some of the type of insight
into Eidam's writing that I was looking for.
Seth
Well, none of those things change my admiration for him. I thought
maybe you were going to bring up some personality foibles we hadn't
known about.

As to being forgotten, Mozart and Beethoven were well aware of him,
and of course Bach's sons were very well-known composers.
Mark & Steven Bornfeld
2008-01-03 19:42:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@gmail.com
Well, none of those things change my admiration for him. I thought
maybe you were going to bring up some personality foibles we hadn't
known about.
As to being forgotten, Mozart and Beethoven were well aware of him,
and of course Bach's sons were very well-known composers.
My impression from what (decidedly scattered) reading I've done has
given me the impression that he was not so much considered forgotten as
considered "old hat" to the new Classicism.
I know that Copland considered Bach as pretty much the apotheosis of
Baroque practice, certainly not a revolutionary the way (for example)
Berlioz or Wagner were. He was described as occupying a similar
position to Brahms a century plus later in his relation to romanticism.

Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
h***@verizon.net
2008-01-03 19:54:19 UTC
Permalink
On Jan 3, 2:42 pm, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
Well, none of those things change my admiration for him.  I thought
maybe you were going to bring up some personality foibles we hadn't
known about.
As to being forgotten, Mozart and Beethoven were well aware of him,
and of course Bach's sons were very well-known composers.
        My impression from what (decidedly scattered) reading I've done has
given me the impression that he was not so much considered forgotten as
considered "old hat" to the new Classicism.
        I know that Copland considered Bach as pretty much the apotheosis of
Baroque practice, certainly not a revolutionary the way (for example)
Berlioz or Wagner were.  He was described as occupying a similar
position to Brahms a century plus later in his relation to romanticism.
Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDShttp://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
That is exactly the idea that Eidam seeks to refute. He states that
Bach's music was deeper and more profound than anything that came
before or after it. For instance, who else wrote preludes and fugues
in all 24 keys not once but twice? Also, his work on the Musical
Offering and the Art of the Fugue were unique as well. Eidam stated
that the reason the musicians of his era kept going back to his
material was indeed this revolutionary quality.

S
Andrew Schulman
2008-01-03 20:03:48 UTC
Permalink
On Jan 3, 2:54 pm, "***@verizon.net" <***@verizon.net>
wrote: He states that
Post by h***@verizon.net
Bach's music was deeper and more profound than anything that came
before or after it.  
Certainly nothing new here in the history of Bach writers.

Andrew
Mark & Steven Bornfeld
2008-01-03 20:08:22 UTC