Discussion:
What do you think of his left hand?
(too old to reply)
Che
2010-05-17 12:03:10 UTC
Permalink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqal6glT1m0&feature=related
Lutemann
2010-05-17 14:02:41 UTC
Permalink
On May 17, 7:03 am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqal6glT1m0&feature=related

Great left hand. He's not a particularly dynamic player, IMO.
Alain Reiher
2010-05-17 14:16:29 UTC
Permalink
"Che" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c95b3edc-0e6b-4c5b-bb7d-***@o15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqal6glT1m0&feature=related

Fantastic player ,,,but it's not only the left hand that do the work! He is
well wired!

This guy is too ... in a different style

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdWAVlRGGMA

Alain
Che
2010-05-18 11:23:31 UTC
Permalink
On May 17, 9:16 am, "Alain Reiher" <***@telus.net> wrote:
> "Che" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>
> This guy is too ... in a different style
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdWAVlRGGMA
>
> Alain

At first I though the silverware was caught in the dishwasher and
being thrown out the door....then I realized it was the video.

I like "Spanish Romance" by this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7vDdy2ELFw&feature=related

Guy
Alain Reiher
2010-05-18 14:30:34 UTC
Permalink
"Che" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8677743f-22b4-4b4c-8bb7-***@m21g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...


I like "Spanish Romance" by this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7vDdy2ELFw&feature=related

Guy
===
Me too!

Alain
JonLorPro
2010-05-21 09:50:28 UTC
Permalink
On May 17, 8:03�am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqal6glT1m0&feature=related

The two things I notice are:
First, that his left hand technique is exemplary of one that has
been "opened up", in that it is defocused from centering around use of
the first finger. Novice players often organize their left hand
approach around primary placement of the first finger, leading to a
typically tight closely clustered grasp technique, which they then try
to develop on as a basis (one of the reasons why "natural" is a
dangerous term in instrumental technique). Here, the physiologically
disadvantaged third and fourth fingers are favored and the first
finger does all the reaching and accommodating to that end that it is
better able to do. There is a well known image of Aguado playing his
guitar (using his tripodion) which shows this the same thing, with the
first finger reaching back adn allowing easier placement of the other
fingers.

Second, that he is facile in changing the platform of his approach,
freely angling his palm and the spread of his fingers away from a
constant lateral to either up or down the neck to best meet the
exigencies of each situation.

He has chosen to facilitate these characteristics with the high angle
of the neck, so that the left hand doesn't need to be thrown outwards
as much to function in these ways, but it is perfectly possible to
adopt the same sorts of paradigm in a more typically lowered postion.
I'll bet he has spent plenty of time doing combinant finger
independence exercizes.
Che
2010-05-21 10:52:57 UTC
Permalink
On May 21, 4:50 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 17, 8:03 am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqal6glT1m0&feature=related
>
> The two things I notice are:
>   First, that his left hand technique is exemplary of one that has
> been "opened up", in that it is defocused from centering around use of
> the first finger.  Novice players often organize their left hand
> approach around primary placement of the first finger, leading to a
> typically tight closely clustered grasp technique, which they then try
> to develop on as a basis (one of the reasons why "natural" is a
> dangerous term in instrumental technique).  Here, the physiologically
> disadvantaged third and fourth fingers are favored and the first
> finger does all the reaching and accommodating to that end that it is
> better able to do.  There is a well known image of Aguado playing his
> guitar (using his tripodion) which shows this the same thing, with the
> first finger reaching back adn allowing easier placement of the other
> fingers.
>
>  Second, that he is facile in changing the platform of his approach,
> freely angling his palm and the spread of his fingers away from a
> constant lateral to either up or down the neck to best meet the
> exigencies of each situation.
>
>  He has chosen to facilitate these characteristics with the high angle
> of the neck, so that the left hand doesn't need to be thrown outwards
> as much to function in these ways, but it is perfectly possible to
> adopt the same sorts of paradigm in a more typically lowered postion.
>   I'll bet he has spent plenty of time doing combinant finger
> independence exercizes.

Excellent observations. There's a sneaky way of changing the angle of
the neck to accommodate special circumstances and distance reaches. I
brought it up on RMCG, years and years ago, which caused one rather
important guitar teacher to suggest public infliction of capital
punishment by my immediate execution.

I laughed.

Che'
Raptor
2010-05-21 16:37:43 UTC
Permalink
On May 21, 3:52 am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 4:50 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 17, 8:03 am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqal6glT1m0&feature=related
>
> > The two things I notice are:
> >   First, that his left hand technique is exemplary of one that has
> > been "opened up", in that it is defocused from centering around use of
> > the first finger.  Novice players often organize their left hand
> > approach around primary placement of the first finger, leading to a
> > typically tight closely clustered grasp technique, which they then try
> > to develop on as a basis (one of the reasons why "natural" is a
> > dangerous term in instrumental technique).  Here, the physiologically
> > disadvantaged third and fourth fingers are favored and the first
> > finger does all the reaching and accommodating to that end that it is
> > better able to do.  There is a well known image of Aguado playing his
> > guitar (using his tripodion) which shows this the same thing, with the
> > first finger reaching back adn allowing easier placement of the other
> > fingers.
>
> >  Second, that he is facile in changing the platform of his approach,
> > freely angling his palm and the spread of his fingers away from a
> > constant lateral to either up or down the neck to best meet the
> > exigencies of each situation.
>
> >  He has chosen to facilitate these characteristics with the high angle
> > of the neck, so that the left hand doesn't need to be thrown outwards
> > as much to function in these ways, but it is perfectly possible to
> > adopt the same sorts of paradigm in a more typically lowered postion.
> >   I'll bet he has spent plenty of time doing combinant finger
> > independence exercizes.
>
> Excellent observations.  There's a sneaky way of changing the angle of
> the neck to accommodate special circumstances and distance reaches.  I
> brought it up on RMCG, years and years ago, which caused one rather
> important guitar teacher to suggest public infliction of capital
> punishment by my immediate execution.
>
>  I laughed.
>
> Che'

If you want to take a look at his early left hand, here's an example.
I'd guess he is around ten or eleven yrs old in this:

http://gabrielbianco.online.fr/video.htm

Mark
Che
2010-05-21 17:00:20 UTC
Permalink
On May 21, 11:37 am, Raptor <***@msn.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 3:52 am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 21, 4:50 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 17, 8:03 am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqal6glT1m0&feature=related
>
> > > The two things I notice are:
> > >   First, that his left hand technique is exemplary of one that has
> > > been "opened up", in that it is defocused from centering around use of
> > > the first finger.  Novice players often organize their left hand
> > > approach around primary placement of the first finger, leading to a
> > > typically tight closely clustered grasp technique, which they then try
> > > to develop on as a basis (one of the reasons why "natural" is a
> > > dangerous term in instrumental technique).  Here, the physiologically
> > > disadvantaged third and fourth fingers are favored and the first
> > > finger does all the reaching and accommodating to that end that it is
> > > better able to do.  There is a well known image of Aguado playing his
> > > guitar (using his tripodion) which shows this the same thing, with the
> > > first finger reaching back adn allowing easier placement of the other
> > > fingers.
>
> > >  Second, that he is facile in changing the platform of his approach,
> > > freely angling his palm and the spread of his fingers away from a
> > > constant lateral to either up or down the neck to best meet the
> > > exigencies of each situation.
>
> > >  He has chosen to facilitate these characteristics with the high angle
> > > of the neck, so that the left hand doesn't need to be thrown outwards
> > > as much to function in these ways, but it is perfectly possible to
> > > adopt the same sorts of paradigm in a more typically lowered postion.
> > >   I'll bet he has spent plenty of time doing combinant finger
> > > independence exercizes.
>
> > Excellent observations.  There's a sneaky way of changing the angle of
> > the neck to accommodate special circumstances and distance reaches.  I
> > brought it up on RMCG, years and years ago, which caused one rather
> > important guitar teacher to suggest public infliction of capital
> > punishment by my immediate execution.
>
> >  I laughed.
>
> > Che'
>
> If you want to take a look at his early left hand, here's an example.
> I'd guess he is around ten or eleven yrs old in this:
>
> http://gabrielbianco.online.fr/video.htm
>
> Mark-

He had fine early training with his father and later with Olivier
Chassain.
JonLorPro
2010-05-23 13:55:51 UTC
Permalink
On May 21, 6:52�am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 4:50�am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:

(snip)

> Excellent observations. �There's a sneaky way of changing the angle of
> the neck to accommodate special circumstances and distance reaches. �
> I brought it up on RMCG, years and years ago, which caused one rather
> important guitar teacher to suggest public infliction of capital
> punishment by my immediate execution.


"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and
finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment
of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the
hard way."
Bokonon

Perhaps not wholly apropos. Try reading it while putting mental
quotes around "ignorant."

Maybe your correspondant was of the school of thought that conceives
of universally applicable optimum configurations for sitting and hand
approach, defined in terms of narrowly precise angles and measures
from which it is imperilment to stray, or someone who, out of his own
personal eccentricities and preferences, has contrived an orthodoxy
from which everyone else is seen as heretical.

Anyway, your sneaky secret, whatever it is, aside from its pragmatic
usage, would seem to accord with the principle that technical approach
is not defined by static positions, but moves within an envelope,
allowing for flexibility and relief. The body works better that way-
you can't find a comfortable position in which to sit in a chair and
then stay that way forever.


>
> �I laughed.
>

The one effective weapon we have, according to Twain.
Lutemann
2010-05-21 17:18:37 UTC
Permalink
On May 21, 4:50 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 17, 8:03 am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqal6glT1m0&feature=related
>
> The two things I notice are:
>   First, that his left hand technique is exemplary of one that has
> been "opened up", in that it is defocused from centering around use of
> the first finger.  Novice players often organize their left hand
> approach around primary placement of the first finger, leading to a
> typically tight closely clustered grasp technique, which they then try
> to develop on as a basis (one of the reasons why "natural" is a
> dangerous term in instrumental technique).  Here, the physiologically
> disadvantaged third and fourth fingers are favored and the first
> finger does all the reaching and accommodating to that end that it is
> better able to do.  There is a well known image of Aguado playing his
> guitar (using his tripodion) which shows this the same thing, with the
> first finger reaching back adn allowing easier placement of the other
> fingers.
>
>  Second, that he is facile in changing the platform of his approach,
> freely angling his palm and the spread of his fingers away from a
> constant lateral to either up or down the neck to best meet the
> exigencies of each situation.
>
>  He has chosen to facilitate these characteristics with the high angle
> of the neck, so that the left hand doesn't need to be thrown outwards
> as much to function in these ways, but it is perfectly possible to
> adopt the same sorts of paradigm in a more typically lowered postion.
>   I'll bet he has spent plenty of time doing combinant finger
> independence exercizes.

This is a wordy way of saying that he practiced the left hand
carefully, listening to the connections and then gradually increased
speed making sure there were no errors. The left hand is the workhorse
and, IMO, you are making too much of it. And yes, Che should be shot.
Che
2010-05-21 18:03:54 UTC
Permalink
On May 21, 12:18 pm, Lutemann <***@aol.com> wrote:


> Che should be shot<


Che' removes his white glove and slaps the offending cad, Luteman,
across the face. Che' throws the glove down haughtily, and declares
(Texican accent optional) "Sir, you have insulted my honour. I
challenge you to a duel." at this juncture Che' takes Luteman kindly
and forgivingly by the hand and leads him off to a quiet place, throws
him in local oil poluted wetlands and proceeds to tar Kent's balls.
JonLorPro
2010-05-23 13:58:49 UTC
Permalink
On May 21, 1:18�pm, Lutemann <***@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 4:50�am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> (snip0


>
> This is a wordy way of saying....

You are not the first to say that about something I've written here.
No, wait! Come to think of it it you _were_ the first.


>... that he practiced the left hand
> carefully, listening �to the connections and then gradually increased
> speed making sure there were no errors. The left hand is the workhorse
> and, IMO, you are making too much of it.

I don't believe I am. Playing guitar is not a natural thing to do.
There are variances from instinctual responses about how to use ones
hands that make it easier, but to be internalized, take some time of
conscious application. I alluded to a couple of specific models for
this in what I saw him doing. You didn't. To tell students nothing
more about the left hand than "practice carefully" etc. is to short
change them, and relegates what should be commonplace actions as
difficulties removed to the periphery of what is thought possible.



> And yes, Che should be shot.

Given what snippets he has revealed of his past, I would be surprized
if he hasn't been.
Che
2010-05-23 14:18:05 UTC
Permalink
On May 23, 8:58 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 1:18 pm, Lutemann <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 21, 4:50 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > (snip0
>
> > This is a wordy way of saying....
>
> You are not the first to say that about something I've written here.
> No, wait! Come to think of it it you _were_ the first.
>
> >... that he practiced the left hand
> > carefully, listening to the connections and then gradually increased
> > speed making sure there were no errors. The left hand is the workhorse
> > and, IMO, you are making too much of it.
>
> I don't believe I am.  Playing guitar is not a natural thing to do.
> There are variances from instinctual responses about how to use ones
> hands that make it easier, but to be internalized, take some time of
> conscious application.  I alluded to a couple of specific models for
> this in what I saw him doing.  You didn't. To tell students nothing
> more about the left hand than "practice carefully" etc. is to short
> change them, and relegates what should be commonplace actions as
> difficulties removed to the periphery of what is thought possible.

Conscious application, a subject we could expand on but, there again
it's a lot of work, and...well you know guitar players.


>
> > And yes, Che should be shot.
>
> Given what snippets he has revealed of his past, I would be surprized if he hasn't been.

Shot at and missed!!! :-)

Che'
JonLorPro
2010-05-23 15:02:46 UTC
Permalink
On May 23, 10:18�am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 23, 8:58�am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 21, 1:18 pm, Lutemann <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > > And yes, Che should be shot.
>
> > Given what snippets he has revealed of his past, I would be surprized if he hasn't been.
>
> Shot at and missed!!! :-)
>

Me, I've managed to miss being shot at. yeah, I know- not as
exciting. Closest we've come is a bit of Moroccan warfare being waged
outside our caravan in Europe, and a difference of opinion being
expresed by drug dealers in the apartment below us.
Che
2010-05-23 16:26:20 UTC
Permalink
On May 23, 10:02 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 23, 10:18 am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 23, 8:58 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 21, 1:18 pm, Lutemann <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > And yes, Che should be shot.
>
> > > Given what snippets he has revealed of his past, I would be surprized if he hasn't been.
>
> > Shot at and missed!!! :-)
>
> Me, I've managed to miss being shot at.  yeah, I know- not as
> exciting.  Closest we've come is a bit of Moroccan warfare being waged
> outside our caravan in Europe, and a difference of opinion being
> expresed by drug dealers in the apartment below us.<

How should I say this..... I lived in interesting and sometimes
exciting times along the Tex-Mex Border-Plex. Circumstances sometimes
demanded I perform for dangerous people and yes, it's always a matter
of differing opinions. That's what makes horseraces and missioniares,
that difference of opinion. Those were training periods in my studies
that helpped develop strong nerves as a performer, imo. So often we
see those classical guitarist....well, maybe diffident is the word I'm
searching for. Classical guitarist worry about screwing up, mistakes
and those concerns....and the shots they have to take from other
guitarist. We see that everyday and night in the barnyard. I had
other concerns of a more grave nature. Without going into details and
the fact I elected to do this. I had to do my job to the very best of
my abilities and not have some X-Mexican High School Beauty Pageant
Queen fall in lust with me without the approval of her brutal
boyfriend, after a few lines of pixy dust. I didn't use for the
simple reason it impacts your happy stuff. This was all many years
ago. Since those years things have really changed along the border-
plex....it's deadly for anyone with a difference of opinion.

Performing makes us ( well some ) always work to improve....play
better. Most often we don't perform as well as we play at home so we
need to perform to play better.... more happiness, right? Those who
learn to perform in extreme circumstances can sometimes play in a
state of bliss at home. It's all risky business if you ask me...those
who take no risk well, risk nothing, right.

So, JonLorPro, you're a guitarist, look at the door. Can you tell us
why you don't pack a smal suitcase, pick up your guitar and walk
out .........?

Btw, did't Luteman say someone took a shot at him playing the
sexaphone or banjo the other day? And now Mr. Luteman says I should
be shot! Kent is up-set with the fact I tarred and feathered his ying-
yangs and threw him in that oil poluted marshland but is that any
reason to shoot someone.....a cyber buddy in the barnyard? I think
Kent's just a little over the top! Beside's it's still Sunday morning
here in Texas I shan't think of these things again, until Monday.

Thank heavens we didn't get off into "Conscious application" that
would really cause a dust-up in the barnyard....maybe even murder, dog
forbid!

Good day, sir

Che'
Richard Jernigan
2010-05-23 16:53:55 UTC
Permalink
On May 23, 7:26 am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 23, 10:02 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 23, 10:18 am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 23, 8:58 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 21, 1:18 pm, Lutemann <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > And yes, Che should be shot.
>
> > > > Given what snippets he has revealed of his past, I would be surprized if he hasn't been.
>
> > > Shot at and missed!!! :-)
>
> > Me, I've managed to miss being shot at.  yeah, I know- not as
> > exciting.  Closest we've come is a bit of Moroccan warfare being waged
> > outside our caravan in Europe, and a difference of opinion being
> > expresed by drug dealers in the apartment below us.<
>
> How should I say this..... I lived in interesting and sometimes
> exciting times along the Tex-Mex Border-Plex.  Circumstances sometimes
> demanded I perform for dangerous people and yes, it's always a matter
> of differing opinions.  That's what makes horseraces and missioniares,
> that difference of opinion.  Those were training periods in my studies
> that helpped develop strong nerves as a performer, imo.  So often we
> see those classical guitarist....well, maybe diffident is the word I'm
> searching for.  Classical guitarist worry about screwing up, mistakes
> and those concerns....and the shots they have to take from other
> guitarist.  We see that everyday and night in the barnyard.  I had
> other concerns of a more grave nature.  Without going into details and
> the fact I elected to do this.  I had to do my job to the very best of
> my abilities and not have some X-Mexican High School Beauty Pageant
> Queen fall in lust with me without the approval of her brutal
> boyfriend, after a few lines of pixy dust.  I didn't use for the
> simple reason it impacts your happy stuff.  This was all many years
> ago.  Since those years things have really changed along the border-
> plex....it's deadly for anyone with a difference of opinion.
>
> Performing makes us ( well some ) always work to improve....play
> better.  Most often we don't perform as well as we play at home so we
> need to perform to play better.... more happiness, right?  Those who
> learn to perform in extreme circumstances can sometimes play in a
> state of bliss at home.  It's all risky business if you ask me...those
> who take no risk  well, risk nothing, right.
>
> So, JonLorPro, you're a guitarist, look at the door.  Can you tell us
> why you don't pack a smal suitcase, pick up your guitar and walk
> out .........?
>
> Btw, did't Luteman say someone took a shot at him playing the
> sexaphone or banjo the other day?  And now Mr. Luteman says I should
> be shot!  Kent is up-set with the fact I tarred and feathered his ying-
> yangs and threw him in that oil poluted marshland but is that any
> reason to shoot someone.....a cyber buddy in the barnyard?  I think
> Kent's just a little over the top!  Beside's it's still Sunday morning
> here in Texas I shan't think of these things again, until Monday.
>
> Thank heavens we didn't get off into "Conscious application" that
> would really cause a dust-up in the barnyard....maybe even murder, dog
> forbid!
>
> Good day, sir
>
> Che'

Years ago I was on business in the Boston area. I had a day off and
stopped by to visit a friend who was running a new startup with a
couple of dozen employees. After looking over his beautiful place of
business on the banks of a New England pond, I said I thought I would
go for a run. One of my new acquaintances spoke up. "That could be
dangerous."

"How so?"

My friend said, "Didn't you hear? X got shot and killed while he was
out running."

I: "What? Was it just some random drive-by? Mistaken identity?"

Friend: "No. X was fooling around with Y's wife. Y killed him while he
was out running."

I: "He didn't get killed out running. He got killed fooling around
with someone else's wife."

RNJ
Che
2010-05-23 17:48:55 UTC
Permalink
On May 23, 11:53 am, Richard Jernigan <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 23, 7:26 am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 23, 10:02 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 23, 10:18 am, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 23, 8:58 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 21, 1:18 pm, Lutemann <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > And yes, Che should be shot.
>
> > > > > Given what snippets he has revealed of his past, I would be surprized if he hasn't been.
>
> > > > Shot at and missed!!! :-)
>
> > > Me, I've managed to miss being shot at.  yeah, I know- not as
> > > exciting.  Closest we've come is a bit of Moroccan warfare being waged
> > > outside our caravan in Europe, and a difference of opinion being
> > > expresed by drug dealers in the apartment below us.<
>
> > How should I say this..... I lived in interesting and sometimes
> > exciting times along the Tex-Mex Border-Plex.  Circumstances sometimes
> > demanded I perform for dangerous people and yes, it's always a matter
> > of differing opinions.  That's what makes horseraces and missioniares,
> > that difference of opinion.  Those were training periods in my studies
> > that helpped develop strong nerves as a performer, imo.  So often we
> > see those classical guitarist....well, maybe diffident is the word I'm
> > searching for.  Classical guitarist worry about screwing up, mistakes
> > and those concerns....and the shots they have to take from other
> > guitarist.  We see that everyday and night in the barnyard.  I had
> > other concerns of a more grave nature.  Without going into details and
> > the fact I elected to do this.  I had to do my job to the very best of
> > my abilities and not have some X-Mexican High School Beauty Pageant
> > Queen fall in lust with me without the approval of her brutal
> > boyfriend, after a few lines of pixy dust.  I didn't use for the
> > simple reason it impacts your happy stuff.  This was all many years
> > ago.  Since those years things have really changed along the border-
> > plex....it's deadly for anyone with a difference of opinion.
>
> > Performing makes us ( well some ) always work to improve....play
> > better.  Most often we don't perform as well as we play at home so we
> > need to perform to play better.... more happiness, right?  Those who
> > learn to perform in extreme circumstances can sometimes play in a
> > state of bliss at home.  It's all risky business if you ask me...those
> > who take no risk  well, risk nothing, right.
>
> > So, JonLorPro, you're a guitarist, look at the door.  Can you tell us
> > why you don't pack a smal suitcase, pick up your guitar and walk
> > out .........?
>
> > Btw, did't Luteman say someone took a shot at him playing the
> > sexaphone or banjo the other day?  And now Mr. Luteman says I should
> > be shot!  Kent is up-set with the fact I tarred and feathered his ying-
> > yangs and threw him in that oil poluted marshland but is that any
> > reason to shoot someone.....a cyber buddy in the barnyard?  I think
> > Kent's just a little over the top!  Beside's it's still Sunday morning
> > here in Texas I shan't think of these things again, until Monday.
>
> > Thank heavens we didn't get off into "Conscious application" that
> > would really cause a dust-up in the barnyard....maybe even murder, dog
> > forbid!
>
> > Good day, sir
>
> > Che'
>
> Years ago I was on business in the Boston area. I had a day off and
> stopped by to visit a friend who was running a new startup with a
> couple of dozen employees. After looking over his beautiful place of
> business on the banks of a New England pond, I said I thought I would
> go for a run. One of my new acquaintances spoke up. "That could be
> dangerous."
>
> "How so?"
>
> My friend said, "Didn't you hear? X got shot and killed while he was
> out running."
>
> I: "What? Was it just some random drive-by? Mistaken identity?"
>
> Friend: "No. X was fooling around with Y's wife. Y killed him while he
> was out running."
>
> I: "He didn't get killed out running. He got killed fooling around
> with someone else's wife."
>
> RNJ-

I was born in Boston, home of the Rat Racers. I became a chanticleer
the hens liked. Sadly, I too roosted on other monkey's roost. You
know what they say, a wise monkey doesn't monkey with another monkey's
monkey. It is only now...long after events, I can spread my wings
and gives forth a clear, saucy, cheery, triumphant " Me fool many
monkeys."

Yep, Richard, here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voxp3ckwJZ0

Che' de Chanticleer
JonLorPro
2010-05-30 20:46:31 UTC
Permalink
On May 23, 12:26�pm, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

>So, JonLorPro, you're a guitarist, look at the door. Can you tell us
>why you don't pack a smal suitcase, pick up your guitar and walk
>out .........?

Maybe because I've done just that. First time was out the door of the
world of legitimate academe. Many years ago, during a time when I was
teaching at four different colleges, my wife and I came down to Boston
(her home town) with a lute that needed some work done on it. A friend
and early-on voice teacher of my wife's referred us to someone who had
once been a colleague of hers as guitar instructor at one of the
conservatories, whom she knew had started making guitars. This turned
out to be a rather extraordinary individual named Walter Stanul, who
in brief contact was about as highly influential on me as anyone else
with whom I spent considerable time (as he happened also to have been
for Kent Murdick, when they met years before in Florida).

I happened then to have with me one of the first Takamine classicals
with a pick-up underneath the saddle, and he happened to have one of
the first mouse amplifiers, the first actually decent sounding easily
portable battery powered amp. The conjunction of these two elements
were a magic combination for what then was his newest interest,
playing in the street, which he'd been doing with one of those boxy
sounding and never satisfactory contact mikes. Walter is one of these
guys with a larger-than-life aspect to his character which when
engaged in active mode creates a kind of vortex around him that has a
way of transforming time spent in his presence into The Walter Show.
He spent the afternoon excitedly and volubly espousing to us about
this new-found lifestyle, risky, potentially but undependably
lucrative, but mostly just redolent with the ressurrection of
excitement, adventure, and fun in playing. He then enacted the minor
repair that was needed on the lute and we left- feeling slightly
stunned.

It turned out for us to have been a proselytizing experience. We
considered what was then our situation- untenured peripheral adjunct
faculty spending hours on the road doing a lotta teaching, a few
really decent students but mostly of a half-interested non-
conservatory calibre whom I then had to grade, and few chances a year
to perform, which even if successful, entailed grinding preparations
and were emotionally overcharged ordeals. The next time Walter saw us
was two or three months later- we had quit our positions, moved down
to Boston, and he encountered us on the playing on the street- people
who had actually paid attention to one of his manic outbursts of
enthusiasm. He was amazed and slightly frightened that anything he
said to anyone might have that much impact on them. We then spent
several years in which, in addition to what ever we could muster in
the way of concerts, private events, and private teachning, we were
regular daily fixtures in downtown Boston. Aside from generating a lot
of anecdotes, it was on of the best things I could have done for my
own performance.

But what to do in the northern winter? One year we walked out the
door to our apartment and moved into a pop-top trailer and headed
south- got involved for a time with a Renaissance dance troup in the
D.C. area, and continued on- found out that a lot of Southern cities
don't seem to have the sorts of central downtown areas we were
looking for, and got marooned for a few months by an accident in
Naples, Florida. It was during this time that an organizing official
decided, in spite of our singing songs in Medieval French accompanied
by lute, that our use of our small and hidden battery amp was too
inauthentic for the Sarasota Renaissance Fair- a decree handed down
from the golf-cart in which he was driving himself around on the
grounds while stage acts in the background used pianos and played
bluegrass. So we were booted out, and saw later a bit of our
performance on a local news story about what the fair had to offer.
We limped back to Boston eventually, in a car that had an intrepid
spirit, though it looked like it had been accordioned back to size
after having been in a crusher or in a Warner Bros. cartoon- the first
time we drove into the city, parked and got out, the first person that
came down the sidewalk knew who we were from our street playing. that
was a welcome home.

But then a year or so later, it was out the door again, apartment left
behind, and we went to Europe. Bought a van in Amsterdam, and made
our way to Southern France- Avignon was where the Moroccan gypsy feud
mentioned a few posts up was being waged, and a crazy Basque guy who
was encamped next to us decided that since we were from Massachusets,
of course we must be intimately aqauinted with Jacqueline Kennedy, and
so unbenownst to us he steamed off and on that basis somewhow wangled
us into taking part in a celebratory Mass in honor of a visitation of
a papal representative to the Papal Cathedral there which dates from
schism. It was one episode in magic time, a continual Fellini film.

So, I know of the walk out the door. Someone with a conventional view
could look at this history, look at our present situation and say we
were nuts, and foolhardy from that first foray- and I wouldn't
necessarily argue with him, even though there's not much I would
change. But- I look at that door and I like having it. I like this
space in which I sit. As rewarding as it all has been, there is also a
somewhat sullen side to my relationship to the world for which I like
that barrier. One can of course venture into the world and carry that
door along metaphorically within ones own mind and spirit, but for
now, I like its tangibilty.

>Btw, did't Luteman say someone took a shot at him playing the
>sexaphone or banjo the other day?

Were they shooting at him, or at the banjo? There is a few panels in
a Pogo book I have in which attendees at a soiree seemed to be making
themselves scarce in response to Pogo's singing of a song while
accompanyong himself on banjo. Nonplussed he turns to his loyal
friend Porkypine, who had remained staunchly by his side, and says, "I
allus thought my loud banjo playing covered up my singning prety
good?" To which Pokypines terse but concisely cogent reply is,
"Wull.... yes and no."
Che
2010-05-30 21:20:07 UTC
Permalink
On May 30, 3:46 pm, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 23, 12:26 pm, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >So, JonLorPro, you're a guitarist, look at the door. Can you tell us
> >why you don't pack a smal suitcase, pick up your guitar and walk
> >out .........?
>
> Maybe because I've done just that. First time was out the door of the
> world of legitimate academe.  Many years ago, during a time when I was
> teaching at four different colleges, my wife and I came down to Boston
> (her home town) with a lute that needed some work done on it. A friend
> and early-on voice teacher of my wife's referred us to someone who had
> once been a colleague of hers as guitar instructor at one of the
> conservatories, whom she knew had started making guitars.  This turned
> out to be a rather extraordinary individual named Walter Stanul, who
> in brief contact was about as highly influential on me as anyone else
> with whom I spent considerable time (as he happened also to have been
> for Kent Murdick, when they met years before in Florida).
>
> I happened then to have with me one of the first Takamine classicals
> with a pick-up underneath the saddle, and he happened to have one of
> the first mouse amplifiers, the first actually decent sounding easily
> portable battery powered amp.  The conjunction of these two elements
> were a magic combination for what then was his newest interest,
> playing in the street, which he'd been doing with one of those boxy
> sounding and never satisfactory contact mikes. Walter is one of these
> guys with a larger-than-life aspect to his character which when
> engaged in active mode creates a kind of vortex around him that has a
> way of transforming time spent in his presence into The Walter Show.
> He spent the afternoon excitedly and volubly espousing to us about
> this new-found lifestyle, risky, potentially but undependably
> lucrative, but mostly just redolent with the ressurrection of
> excitement, adventure, and fun in playing.  He then enacted the minor
> repair that was needed on the lute and we left- feeling slightly
> stunned.
>
> It turned out for us to have been a proselytizing experience. We
> considered what was then our situation- untenured peripheral adjunct
> faculty spending hours on the road doing a lotta teaching, a few
> really decent students but mostly of a half-interested non-
> conservatory calibre whom I then had to grade, and few chances a year
> to perform, which even if successful, entailed grinding preparations
> and were emotionally overcharged ordeals.  The next time Walter saw us
> was two or three months later- we had quit our positions, moved down
> to Boston, and he encountered us on the playing on the street- people
> who had actually paid attention to one of his manic outbursts of
> enthusiasm.  He was amazed and slightly frightened that anything he
> said to anyone might have that much impact on them.  We then spent
> several years in which, in addition to what ever we could muster in
> the way of concerts, private events, and private teachning, we were
> regular daily fixtures in downtown Boston. Aside from generating a lot
> of anecdotes, it was on of the best things I could have done for my
> own performance.
>
> But what to do in the northern winter?  One year we walked out the
> door to our apartment and moved into a pop-top trailer and headed
> south- got involved for a time with a Renaissance dance troup in the
> D.C. area, and continued on- found out that a lot of Southern cities
> don't seem to have the sorts of central downtown  areas we were
> looking for, and got marooned for a few months by an accident in
> Naples, Florida.  It was during this time that an organizing official
> decided, in spite of our singing songs in Medieval French accompanied
> by lute, that our use of our small and hidden battery amp was too
> inauthentic for the Sarasota Renaissance Fair- a  decree handed down
> from the golf-cart in which he was driving himself around on the
> grounds while stage acts in the background used pianos and played
> bluegrass. So we were booted out, and saw later a bit of our
> performance on a local news story about what the fair had to offer.
> We limped back to Boston eventually, in a car that had an intrepid
> spirit, though it looked like it had been accordioned back to size
> after having been in a crusher or in a Warner Bros. cartoon- the first
> time we drove into the city, parked and got out, the first person that
> came down the sidewalk knew who we were from our street playing.  that
> was a welcome home.
>
> But then a year or so later, it was out the door again, apartment left
> behind, and we went to Europe.  Bought a van in Amsterdam, and made
> our way to Southern France- Avignon was where the Moroccan gypsy feud
> mentioned a few posts up was being waged, and a crazy Basque guy who
> was encamped next to us decided that since we were from Massachusets,
> of course we must be intimately aqauinted with Jacqueline Kennedy, and
> so unbenownst to us he steamed off and on that basis somewhow wangled
> us into taking part in a celebratory Mass in honor of a visitation of
> a papal representative to the Papal Cathedral there which dates from
> schism.  It was one episode in magic time, a continual Fellini film.
>
> So, I know of the walk out the door.  Someone with a conventional view
> could look at this history, look at our present situation and say we
> were nuts, and foolhardy  from that first foray- and I wouldn't
> necessarily argue with him, even though there's not much I would
> change.  But- I look at that door and I like having it.  I like this
> space in which I sit. As rewarding as it all has been, there is also a
> somewhat sullen side to my relationship to the world for which I like
> that barrier.  One can of course venture into the world and carry that
> door along metaphorically  within ones own mind and spirit, but for
> now, I like its tangibilty.
>
> >Btw, did't Luteman say someone took a shot at him playing the
> >sexaphone or banjo the other day?
>
> Were they shooting at him, or at the banjo?  There is a few panels in
> a Pogo book I have in which attendees at a soiree seemed to be making
> themselves scarce in response to Pogo's singing of a song while
> accompanyong himself on banjo.  Nonplussed he turns to his loyal
> friend Porkypine, who had remained staunchly by his side, and says, "I
> allus thought my loud banjo playing covered up my singning prety
> good?"   To which Pokypines terse but concisely cogent reply is,
> "Wull.... yes and no."

I am very surprised. Do you mean to tell me you spent a little time
around Walter Stanul and didn't get an arch-guitar? I bought a
Southwell in 1995. Also, I recall talk of the best 1St string... a
lot of guessing going one here...I just watched. Walter Stanul,
didn't tell you about the pink German "Andrea" 49# test spool of
fishing line he keeps in the freezer?

> But what to do in the northern winter?<

What do the birds do? San Jose C.R. average temp. year round is 72
degrees. You could teach English, Music and Guitar. Life is easy keep
it simple.

Do a little web search on San Jose C.R There is a local English
newspaper. I live there two years.

Interesting story and the road can...it can be brutal. This is where
the word I seldom if ever use comes up. Artist, WTF, we are the
antennae of the race, right.
Use that antennae and the road is just a Journey.

Che'
JonLorPro
2010-05-31 00:51:04 UTC
Permalink
On May 30, 5:20�pm, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am very surprised. Do you mean to tell me you spent a little time
> around Walter Stanul and didn't get an arch-guitar? �


I spent not a little, but a lot of time around Walter Stanul. We
were very good friends, did a bit of recording together, even one or
two performances. Then, over the last ten or fifteeen years or so,
we've just sorta fell out of each others orbit, even though he's not
far off.

But he made my first eleven-string, which I still have. Its the one I
am playing in my YouTubes of "Recuerdos", "The Sally Gardens", and
"The Blue Handkerchief", plus several others which I hope to get
around to putting up when I get myself and my gear together.

He had a method for temporarily mounting a prospective top on a guitar
while it is being made which allowed it easily to be removed, so one
could fiddle around with shaving braces, adding or subtracting them,
etc, and very quickly appreciate the results of such
experimentation. There were at least three tops that were made in
this fashion for my guitar; the final one was confirmed by a mystical
full-moon ceremony we had outside his wood shop that involved my wife
intoning directly at its surface to get it to resonate. This was
witnessed by some drunk guy who came staggering up the street, who
found the whole spectacle to be most intriguing.

He had made his first arch-guitar at that point, but I wanted a
regular sized body for mine.

>I bought a
> Southwell in 1995. �Also, I recall talk of the best 1St string... a
> lot of guessing going one here...I just watched. �Walter Stanul,
> didn't tell you about the pink German "Andrea" 49# test spool of
> fishing line he keeps in the freezer?

I have for years used and been most satisfied with a .6 leader line
made by Maxima for my high A string. He did have some material which
he was hot on, which didn't have what he called "the insect sound"
which annoyed him greatly- which to me was just a continuation of the
progressive brightness that one hears in moving from the regular third
to second to first strings. He let me try some once- it did seem to
have a softer sort of sound, but was too prone to breakage to be
practical for me. He wouldn't tell me what it was anyway- he liked
keeping it a big fat secret. Well, he is welcome to it- so it's pink
German "Andrea" 49#? How did you find out what it is? What does
keeping it in the freezer have to do with it?
Andrew Schulman
2010-05-31 00:56:06 UTC
Permalink
On May 30, 8:51 pm, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
>...the final one was confirmed by a mystical
> full-moon ceremony we had outside his wood shop that involved my wife
> intoning directly at its surface to get it to resonate.  This was
> witnessed by some drunk guy who came staggering up the street, who
> found the whole spectacle to be most intriguing.
>
>
He probably had a traumatic experience, for a moment think he was the
sober one there...

Andrew
Che
2010-05-31 01:44:50 UTC
Permalink
On May 30, 7:51 pm, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:

>
> I have for years used and been most satisfied with a .6 leader line
> made by Maxima for my high A string.  He did have some material which
> he was hot on, which didn't have what he called "the insect sound"
> which annoyed him  greatly- which to me was just a continuation of the
> progressive brightness that one hears in moving from the regular third
> to second to first strings.   He let me try some once- it did seem to
> have a softer sort of sound, but was too prone to breakage to be
> practical for me.  He wouldn't tell me what it was anyway-  he liked
> keeping it a big fat secret.  Well, he is welcome to it- so it's pink
> German "Andrea" 49#?  How did you find out what it is?  What does
> keeping it in the freezer have to do with it?,


A that time "Andrea" was the only light pink fishing line in
existence. I got a string ( he didn't tell me what it was ) I thought
I knew...Often I didn't say everything I thought. I miked it and
showed it to an expert. It was really quite easy...went to a good
tackle store and bought a small spool. It was a softer sound but it
really carried. Let's just say I've lived through strings. I've
tried, in the old days, taking thre or four dozen boxes with me
oversea. It seems I gave them away...you know, to someone that needed
a new set where they were are to get, sometimes they were very
discolored in the basses. I learned to have strings sent to me.
Notice that "Andrea" is a "limp" line for it's diameter long exposure
to cold temps. is not good for it. It's cheap enough to buy when you
need it.

As you can guess I was in string Hell until I rounded my dogs and cats
up. It didn't take long to fall for my arch-guitar. The arrangements
and transcriptions I made from harp to arch were just so much easier
and so many voices to call on and such pretty little voices.

It was a little over a year before my long term friends saw or heard
that Southwell, they too fell in love with it at first sight. What's
the URL for your videos on Arch?

I had a really nice case made and carried it in the overhead bin, no
problem.

Che'

Che'
JonLorPro
2010-05-31 04:25:31 UTC
Permalink
On May 30, 9:44�pm, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:


> �What's
> the URL for your videos on Arch?


www.YouTube.com/GuitarEleven


Click on "see all" underneath the three little video incipit stills in
the right panel to see them all.

>
> I had a really nice case made and carried it in the overhead bin, no
> problem.


My solution to the overhead bin problem was that both my 11-strings
have detachable necks, so the pieces are small enough to be carry on
luggage.
Che
2010-05-31 14:04:15 UTC
Permalink
On May 30, 11:25 pm, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 30, 9:44 pm, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What's
> > the URL for your videos on Arch?
>
> www.YouTube.com/GuitarEleven

This URL is not working.
Also I gave you a misspelling here:
http://tinyurl.com/32xbpey



























>
> Click on "see all" underneath the three little video incipit stills in
> the right panel to see them all.
>
>
>
> > I had a really nice case made and carried it in the overhead bin, no
> > problem.
>
> My solution to the overhead bin problem was that both my 11-strings
> have detachable necks, so the pieces are small enough to be carry on
> luggage.
John Nguyen
2010-05-31 14:34:53 UTC
Permalink
On May 31, 12:25 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 30, 9:44 pm, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What's
> > the URL for your videos on Arch?
>
> www.YouTube.com/GuitarEleven
>
> Click on "see all" underneath the three little video incipit stills in
> the right panel to see them all.
>
>
>
> > I had a really nice case made and carried it in the overhead bin, no
> > problem.
>
> My solution to the overhead bin problem was that both my 11-strings
> have detachable necks, so the pieces are small enough to be carry on
> luggage.

Is this the link?

http://www.youtube.com/user/guitareleven#p/u

The Handel's Courante is great!!!!!!!!

Cheers,

John
Che
2010-05-31 14:47:27 UTC
Permalink
On May 31, 9:34 am, John Nguyen <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 31, 12:25 am, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 30, 9:44 pm, Che <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > What's
> > > the URL for your videos on Arch?
>
> >www.YouTube.com/GuitarEleven
>
> > Click on "see all" underneath the three little video incipit stills in
> > the right panel to see them all.
>
> > > I had a really nice case made and carried it in the overhead bin, no
> > > problem.
>
> > My solution to the overhead bin problem was that both my 11-strings
> > have detachable necks, so the pieces are small enough to be carry on
> > luggage.
>
> Is this the link?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/user/guitareleven#p/u
>
> The Handel's Courante is great!!!!!!!!
>
> Cheers,
>
> John-

Very nice Jon. I watched all of them. Excellent.

Che'
Matt Faunce
2010-05-31 01:16:27 UTC
Permalink
On May 30, 4:46 pm, JonLorPro <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> It was during this time that an organizing official
> decided, in spite of our singing songs in Medieval French accompanied
> by lute, that our use of our small and hidden battery amp was too
> inauthentic for the Sarasota Renaissance Fair- a  decree handed down
> from the golf-cart in which he was driving himself around on the
> grounds while stage acts in the background used pianos and played
> bluegrass. So we were booted out, and saw later a bit of our
> performance on a local news story about what the fair had to offer.

That's funny! I needed to highlight that little bit of your post.

Matt
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