Discussion:
OT - A Review of Moore's Latest Film
(too old to reply)
John Sloan
2004-06-26 06:03:13 UTC
Permalink
Presented for your consideration:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

John Sloan
richard c. spross
2004-06-26 07:12:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Sloan
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
John Sloan
The smart money goes to the movie and
thinks for itself.
Richard Spross
John Sloan
2004-06-26 08:11:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by richard c. spross
The smart money goes to the movie and
thinks for itself.
That's quite an enigmatic response, Richard, and I'm trying to decipher your
code! :)

I'm not sure what you mean by "smart money." Is this a metaphor for "smart
person," as in "The smart person goes to the movie and thinks for himself"
(presumably instead of reading reviews - perhaps you are suggesting that *I*
am not thinking for myself, for some reason)? If so, was this meant as a
dismissal of the review on your part, having, I assume, read all of it?
You're certainly within your rights to do so, of course; but, the reviewer
seems to have gone to the movie and has apparently done quite a lot of
thinking about it. I am glad he chose to share his thoughts.

John Sloan
Larry Deack
2004-06-26 15:03:49 UTC
Permalink
"John Sloan"
Post by John Sloan
That's quite an enigmatic response,
Richard, and I'm trying to decipher your code! :)
Wow! It seemed obvious to me and not any of the bad things you got from
it. I thought he was just saying that even after reading a review it would
be better to go see it for your self and make your own determination.
Nothing sinister and nobody is attacking you as far as I can tell.
Greg M Silverman
2004-06-26 15:20:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Sloan
Post by richard c. spross
The smart money goes to the movie and
thinks for itself.
That's quite an enigmatic response, Richard, and I'm trying to decipher your
code! :)
I'm not sure what you mean by "smart money." Is this a metaphor for "smart
person," as in "The smart person goes to the movie and thinks for himself"
(presumably instead of reading reviews - perhaps you are suggesting that *I*
am not thinking for myself, for some reason)? If so, was this meant as a
dismissal of the review on your part, having, I assume, read all of it?
You're certainly within your rights to do so, of course; but, the reviewer
seems to have gone to the movie and has apparently done quite a lot of
thinking about it. I am glad he chose to share his thoughts.
Although the reviewer also seems to have made his mind up before seeing it. I
would not call that fair and unbiased.

gms--
Post by John Sloan
John Sloan
richard c. spross
2004-06-26 17:24:06 UTC
Permalink
I have yet to see the movie. I'll do it later this week when the crowds
calm down. Therefore I'm not that smart yet. : 0

But by posting a review, headed with an accusation, it automatically
signels to the reader a bias. The result of which, even out here in California,

which is not all Democrat by the way, many folks automatically rely upon the
review and then base their opinions upon the review when talking
to others who have seen the movie as if the reviewer had the facts straight.
All reviewers will have a bias too. Thus some folks won't even go to
see it, having already made up their mind that Michael Moore is
a liar and is hell bent upon distorting the facts.

So I'm just saying that, people shoudl go see the moive for themselves,
talk about the issues raised, read the various reviews and come to their
own conclusions. This would bring a healthy debate to the subject
instead of people aligning themselves with points of view fed to them
by others.

Of course for me, most of what Michael Moore has packed into his
movie has been heard now for a couple of years. Not much new.

But if iit is new to you ( everyone,,) then by all means go see it.
One can then debate on the merits, not hearsay.
Richard Spross
Post by John Sloan
Post by richard c. spross
The smart money goes to the movie and
thinks for itself.
That's quite an enigmatic response, Richard, and I'm trying to decipher your
code! :)
I'm not sure what you mean by "smart money." Is this a metaphor for "smart
person," as in "The smart person goes to the movie and thinks for himself"
(presumably instead of reading reviews - perhaps you are suggesting that *I*
am not thinking for myself, for some reason)? If so, was this meant as a
dismissal of the review on your part, having, I assume, read all of it?
You're certainly within your rights to do so, of course; but, the reviewer
seems to have gone to the movie and has apparently done quite a lot of
thinking about it. I am glad he chose to share his thoughts.
John Sloan
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
2004-06-26 18:31:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by richard c. spross
I have yet to see the movie. I'll do it later this week when the crowds
calm down. Therefore I'm not that smart yet. : 0
But by posting a review, headed with an accusation, it automatically
signels to the reader a bias. The result of which, even out here in California,
which is not all Democrat by the way, many folks automatically rely upon the
review and then base their opinions upon the review when talking
to others who have seen the movie as if the reviewer had the facts straight.
All reviewers will have a bias too. Thus some folks won't even go to
see it, having already made up their mind that Michael Moore is
a liar and is hell bent upon distorting the facts.
So I'm just saying that, people shoudl go see the moive for themselves,
talk about the issues raised, read the various reviews and come to their
own conclusions. This would bring a healthy debate to the subject
instead of people aligning themselves with points of view fed to them
by others.
Of course for me, most of what Michael Moore has packed into his
movie has been heard now for a couple of years. Not much new.
But if iit is new to you ( everyone,,) then by all means go see it.
One can then debate on the merits, not hearsay.
Richard Spross
I may yet see it. I dunno, I don't see too many movies, and I kinda
dislike seeing movies that are supposed to be "good for you". I didn't
see "Gandhi" either. But I may be dragged there by the wife.
From what I've heard, there really isn't much that's new. But there's
lots out there I don't know. I've read a couple of Seymour Hersh's
articles in the New Yorker, and I'm getting quite pissed enough, thank
you very much. I don't need to raise my blood pressure.
There is more than enough information out there that rational thinking
people should have no trouble making up their minds about the election.
The troublesome thing for me is that many know all this and it seems
not to matter--it's sort of like, "yeah, he's a creep, but he's OUR creep.".
Of course, I'm in pinko New York. They really don't need my vote here.
MO and Eileen's votes are going to be much more important than mine.
Maybe I'll move to Florida.

Steve
Post by richard c. spross
Post by John Sloan
Post by richard c. spross
The smart money goes to the movie and
thinks for itself.
That's quite an enigmatic response, Richard, and I'm trying to decipher your
code! :)
I'm not sure what you mean by "smart money." Is this a metaphor for "smart
person," as in "The smart person goes to the movie and thinks for himself"
(presumably instead of reading reviews - perhaps you are suggesting that *I*
am not thinking for myself, for some reason)? If so, was this meant as a
dismissal of the review on your part, having, I assume, read all of it?
You're certainly within your rights to do so, of course; but, the reviewer
seems to have gone to the movie and has apparently done quite a lot of
thinking about it. I am glad he chose to share his thoughts.
John Sloan
richard c. spross
2004-06-26 19:16:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Post by richard c. spross
I have yet to see the movie. I'll do it later this week when the crowds
calm down. Therefore I'm not that smart yet. : 0
But by posting a review, headed with an accusation, it automatically
signels to the reader a bias. The result of which, even out here in California,
which is not all Democrat by the way, many folks automatically rely upon the
review and then base their opinions upon the review when talking
to others who have seen the movie as if the reviewer had the facts straight.
All reviewers will have a bias too. Thus some folks won't even go to
see it, having already made up their mind that Michael Moore is
a liar and is hell bent upon distorting the facts.
So I'm just saying that, people shoudl go see the moive for themselves,
talk about the issues raised, read the various reviews and come to their
own conclusions. This would bring a healthy debate to the subject
instead of people aligning themselves with points of view fed to them
by others.
Of course for me, most of what Michael Moore has packed into his
movie has been heard now for a couple of years. Not much new.
But if iit is new to you ( everyone,,) then by all means go see it.
One can then debate on the merits, not hearsay.
Richard Spross
I may yet see it. I dunno, I don't see too many movies, and I kinda
dislike seeing movies that are supposed to be "good for you". I didn't
see "Gandhi" either. But I may be dragged there by the wife.
From what I've heard, there really isn't much that's new. But there's
lots out there I don't know. I've read a couple of Seymour Hersh's
articles in the New Yorker, and I'm getting quite pissed enough, thank
you very much. I don't need to raise my blood pressure.
There is more than enough information out there that rational thinking
people should have no trouble making up their minds about the election.
The troublesome thing for me is that many know all this and it seems
not to matter--it's sort of like, "yeah, he's a creep, but he's OUR creep.".
Of course, I'm in pinko New York. They really don't need my vote here.
MO and Eileen's votes are going to be much more important than mine.
Maybe I'll move to Florida.
Steve
I know I've said this before, several problems which affect our effective
participation in the government, are the gerrymandering of congressional
districts into "safe" districts. Thus in any given district there are insufficient
voices to any opposing view which might make sense. This is not good for
democracy, because then the people are subject to their elected officials to
represent them. Where there is a lack of effective representation the people
are ill served, and often as not become complacent about the process.

The way political partys pull this off is by not informing the people in their
district about meeitngs, votes, or getting people to participate. For example
I would have to do some real work just to locate the local party headquarters
here in Oakland. The more hidden from view the party apparatus is, the more
the power is centered in party hierachy and the less input the people have.

So when opinions are divided congressionally by district, debate fails,
when party involvement is hidden and discouraged, the few run the show
isolating the public.

I heard on the radio show, "Talk of the Nation" before the last presidential
election that there were something like only 37 districts which were up for
grabs because there was an even balance of Democrats and Republicans.
Lucky those people to be able to share and exchange viewpoints.

When "special interests" start slipping money to campaigns, then the people
running for office can easily become beholden to their donors at the expense
of the people they are representing.

So we have a mess on our hands and unless we throw all the rascals out at
the next election ( and I would like to see a major turn over in Congress as well )
( as my political science prof said in college ) we have only
ourselves to blame for what disasters may be fall us in the future.


Richard Spross
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Post by richard c. spross
Post by John Sloan
Post by richard c. spross
The smart money goes to the movie and
thinks for itself.
That's quite an enigmatic response, Richard, and I'm trying to decipher your
code! :)
I'm not sure what you mean by "smart money." Is this a metaphor for "smart
person," as in "The smart person goes to the movie and thinks for himself"
(presumably instead of reading reviews - perhaps you are suggesting that *I*
am not thinking for myself, for some reason)? If so, was this meant as a
dismissal of the review on your part, having, I assume, read all of it?
You're certainly within your rights to do so, of course; but, the reviewer
seems to have gone to the movie and has apparently done quite a lot of
thinking about it. I am glad he chose to share his thoughts.
John Sloan
Ashby
2004-06-30 15:11:05 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
So we have a mess on our hands and unless we throw all the rascals out at
the next election ( and I would like to see a major turn over in Congress as well )
( as my political science prof said in college ) we have only
ourselves to blame for what disasters may be fall us in the future.
Richard Spross
I believe it was Harry Truman who, when someone complained to him about the
low moral character of our elected representatives, replied that "the
problem is not bad elected officials -- the problem is bad voters."

Ashby
William Jennings
2004-06-26 21:19:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Post by richard c. spross
I have yet to see the movie. I'll do it later this week when the crowds
calm down. Therefore I'm not that smart yet. : 0
But by posting a review, headed with an accusation, it automatically
signels to the reader a bias. The result of which, even out here in California,
which is not all Democrat by the way, many folks automatically rely upon the
review and then base their opinions upon the review when talking
to others who have seen the movie as if the reviewer had the facts straight.
All reviewers will have a bias too. Thus some folks won't even go to
see it, having already made up their mind that Michael Moore is
a liar and is hell bent upon distorting the facts.
So I'm just saying that, people shoudl go see the moive for
themselves,
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Post by richard c. spross
talk about the issues raised, read the various reviews and come to their
own conclusions. This would bring a healthy debate to the subject
instead of people aligning themselves with points of view fed to them
by others.
Of course for me, most of what Michael Moore has packed into his
movie has been heard now for a couple of years. Not much new.
But if iit is new to you ( everyone,,) then by all means go see it.
One can then debate on the merits, not hearsay.
Richard Spross
I may yet see it. I dunno, I don't see too many movies, and I kinda
dislike seeing movies that are supposed to be "good for you". I didn't
see "Gandhi" either. But I may be dragged there by the wife.
From what I've heard, there really isn't much that's new. But there's
lots out there I don't know. I've read a couple of Seymour Hersh's
articles in the New Yorker, and I'm getting quite pissed enough, thank
you very much. < Snip>
Don't read Desson Thomson, Ann Hornaday or Terry M. Neal of the Washingt
on Post or you might get really pissed.
The New York Times is right in there.

Che'

Clinton lied. Hillary cried.
Bush lied. 800 + died
Steven Bornfeld
2004-06-26 22:40:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by richard c. spross
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Post by richard c. spross
I have yet to see the movie. I'll do it later this week when the
crowds
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Post by richard c. spross
calm down. Therefore I'm not that smart yet. : 0
But by posting a review, headed with an accusation, it automatically
signels to the reader a bias. The result of which, even out here in
California,
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Post by richard c. spross
which is not all Democrat by the way, many folks automatically rely
upon the
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Post by richard c. spross
review and then base their opinions upon the review when talking
to others who have seen the movie as if the reviewer had the facts
straight.
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Post by richard c. spross
All reviewers will have a bias too. Thus some folks won't even go to
see it, having already made up their mind that Michael Moore is
a liar and is hell bent upon distorting the facts.
So I'm just saying that, people shoudl go see the moive for
themselves,
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Post by richard c. spross
talk about the issues raised, read the various reviews and come to
their
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Post by richard c. spross
own conclusions. This would bring a healthy debate to the subject
instead of people aligning themselves with points of view fed to
them
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Post by richard c. spross
by others.
Of course for me, most of what Michael Moore has packed into his
movie has been heard now for a couple of years. Not much new.
But if iit is new to you ( everyone,,) then by all means go see it.
One can then debate on the merits, not hearsay.
Richard Spross
I may yet see it. I dunno, I don't see too many movies, and I kinda
dislike seeing movies that are supposed to be "good for you". I
didn't
Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
see "Gandhi" either. But I may be dragged there by the wife.
From what I've heard, there really isn't much that's new. But there's
lots out there I don't know. I've read a couple of Seymour Hersh's
articles in the New Yorker, and I'm getting quite pissed enough, thank
you very much. < Snip>
Don't read Desson Thomson, Ann Hornaday or Terry M. Neal of the Washingt
on Post or you might get really pissed.
The New York Times is right in there.
Che'
Clinton lied. Hillary cried.
Bush lied. 800 + died
Thanks for the heads up--or heads down, as the case may be.

Steve
Alpha_Omega
2004-06-26 09:00:47 UTC
Permalink
I thought it was brilliant and that's all that matters! If even 1/10 of the
move is true, Bush should be impeached.
Post by John Sloan
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
John Sloan
Greg M Silverman
2004-06-26 15:18:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Sloan
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
John Sloan
Looks like an extremely fair and unbiased review John! ;-)

BTW, I guess the rumor about Hezbollah funding the movie was started by
that great intellect of our times, Rush Limbaugh.

gms--
Jacques Moran
2004-06-26 16:16:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Sloan
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
John Sloan
I like hitchens take on Reagan too:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2101842/

even better was his take on bob hope

http://slate.msn.com/id/2086499/
William Jennings
2004-06-26 16:45:28 UTC
Permalink
"Fahrenheit 9/11" sure backfired on those who would have shut
high-spirited pranks and satirical democratic self-expression down. Did
you note the guitar licks from "Cocaine" as the camera scanned Bush's
Texas Air National Guard records?

" Fahrenheit 9/11" obviously skews facts to its own advantage, but
that's what the game is all about, is it not?

Anyone found any "WMD's"?
Richard F. Sayage
2004-06-26 17:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
"Fahrenheit 9/11" sure backfired on those who would have shut
high-spirited pranks and satirical democratic self-expression down. Did
you note the guitar licks from "Cocaine" as the camera scanned Bush's
Texas Air National Guard records?
" Fahrenheit 9/11" obviously skews facts to its own advantage, but
that's what the game is all about, is it not?
Anyone found any "WMD's"?
Yep, they came to my back yard and found a Whacko-Megalo-Doofus...
WholeMessoDoofuses
Oh no, not the Wombats agin... (is this whatcha mean?)

I like Steve's comment, ala Brooklyn, I got yer Weapon of Mass Destruction
right here :-) haha

As for skewed to its own advantage?...hmmm...what advantage is there in
not presenting the whole truth, myriad sides, and objectivity....oh yes, a
BORING movie is what this would have been, perhaps....

Other than that, I could care less....especially regarding someone who
is not willing to see, or at the very least, speak the complete truth as
well as possible, in its total context. Then again, that would be a long
movie... hehe ... boring too, for most of us anyways.


Rich
--
Richard F. Sayage
www.savageclassical.com

Remove ZEROSPAM to reply...thx

http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Greg M Silverman
2004-06-26 17:28:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by William Jennings
"Fahrenheit 9/11" sure backfired on those who would have shut
high-spirited pranks and satirical democratic self-expression down. Did
you note the guitar licks from "Cocaine" as the camera scanned Bush's
Texas Air National Guard records?
" Fahrenheit 9/11" obviously skews facts to its own advantage, but
that's what the game is all about, is it not?
Anyone found any "WMD's"?
Yep, they came to my back yard and found a Whacko-Megalo-Doofus...
WholeMessoDoofuses
Oh no, not the Wombats agin... (is this whatcha mean?)
I like Steve's comment, ala Brooklyn, I got yer Weapon of Mass Destruction
right here :-) haha
As for skewed to its own advantage?...hmmm...what advantage is there in
not presenting the whole truth, myriad sides, and objectivity....oh yes, a
BORING movie is what this would have been, perhaps....
You know this skewed thing is totally hypocritical, especially when the far
right accuses Mr. Moore of being completely so, more especially when they
listen to their talk radio gods, who of course, are masters of the art.

gms--
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Other than that, I could care less....especially regarding someone who
is not willing to see, or at the very least, speak the complete truth as
well as possible, in its total context. Then again, that would be a long
movie... hehe ... boring too, for most of us anyways.
Rich
--
Richard F. Sayage
www.savageclassical.com
Remove ZEROSPAM to reply...thx
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Richard F. Sayage
2004-06-26 17:44:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by William Jennings
"Fahrenheit 9/11" sure backfired on those who would have shut
high-spirited pranks and satirical democratic self-expression down. Did
you note the guitar licks from "Cocaine" as the camera scanned Bush's
Texas Air National Guard records?
" Fahrenheit 9/11" obviously skews facts to its own advantage, but
that's what the game is all about, is it not?
Anyone found any "WMD's"?
Yep, they came to my back yard and found a Whacko-Megalo-Doofus...
WholeMessoDoofuses
Oh no, not the Wombats agin... (is this whatcha mean?)
I like Steve's comment, ala Brooklyn, I got yer Weapon of Mass Destruction
right here :-) haha
As for skewed to its own advantage?...hmmm...what advantage is there in
not presenting the whole truth, myriad sides, and objectivity....oh yes, a
BORING movie is what this would have been, perhaps....
You know this skewed thing is totally hypocritical, especially when the far
right accuses Mr. Moore of being completely so, more especially when they
listen to their talk radio gods, who of course, are masters of the art.
gms--
Could be...could be. But then again, they aren't making a movie, and
threatening lawsuits if someone speaks up against them (then again, maybe
they are)?
Who listens to the radio anyway? :-)
I just said boring. That it would be...apparently it isn't, so there ya
go...haha
Why does doc have a pet goat? Now that's an interesting topic, no?

Rich
Greg M Silverman
2004-06-26 18:16:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Why does doc have a pet goat? Now that's an interesting topic, no?
Yes it is. Especially since we have a dingoat: a cross between a dingo and
goat, with some canine in the mix. Maybe Polly is progeny of doc's caprine
beast?

gms--
William Jennings
2004-06-26 19:48:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Why does doc have a pet goat? Now that's an interesting topic, no?
It is obvious those some haven't seen the movie. It opened last night.
"My Pet Goat" was the childerns book Bush's was reading during the Sept.
11th. attack on the twin towers.

http://s89194761.onlinehome.us/

Sadly, I have no goats of my own. The "Cabrito" I'm eating belonged to
others. Could I recommend a 97' Tiezzi Brunello di Montalcino, it's
drinking well now.

Che' Goat Thief

P.S. Go see the movie.
Richard F. Sayage
2004-06-26 20:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Why does doc have a pet goat? Now that's an interesting topic,
no?
It is obvious those some haven't seen the movie. It opened last night.
"My Pet Goat" was the childerns book Bush's was reading during the Sept.
11th. attack on the twin towers.
http://s89194761.onlinehome.us/
Sadly, I have no goats of my own. The "Cabrito" I'm eating belonged to
others. Could I recommend a 97' Tiezzi Brunello di Montalcino, it's
drinking well now.
Che' Goat Thief
P.S. Go see the movie.
Nah, knew that...it was more fun the other way. Saw it...great movie...not
in the real world though, as far as I live in it. I'm not sayin' left,
right, middle up or down. I don't really give a crap one way or the other.
But to think it is steeped in the total picture kinda thing...well, that
would be saying too much.. Now I ain't sayin' you're sayin' that. I'm
just thinking out loud. Very dangerous....me thinking at all, never mind
out loud.

hah

Rich
William Jennings
2004-06-26 21:02:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by William Jennings
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Why does doc have a pet goat? Now that's an interesting topic,
no?
It is obvious those some haven't seen the movie. It opened last night.
"My Pet Goat" was the childerns book Bush's was reading during the Sept.
11th. attack on the twin towers.
http://s89194761.onlinehome.us/
Sadly, I have no goats of my own. The "Cabrito" I'm eating belonged to
others. Could I recommend a 97' Tiezzi Brunello di Montalcino, it's
drinking well now.
Che' Goat Thief
P.S. Go see the movie.
Nah, knew that...it was more fun the other way. Saw it...great movie...not
in the real world though, as far as I live in it. I'm not sayin' left,
right, middle up or down. I don't really give a crap one way or the other.
But to think it is steeped in the total picture kinda thing...well, that
would be saying too much.. Now I ain't sayin' you're sayin' that.
I'm
Post by Richard F. Sayage
just thinking out loud. Very dangerous....me thinking at all, never mind
out loud.
hah
Rich
I'm neither left, right or of the middle. I thought Moore's movie an
interesting balance of ideological perspective an
entertainment. Who knows the total picture of anything these days?
Moore pokes ridicule and scorn at the president an Ashcroft, that's good
enough for me.

P.S. Neither you or I have elected to live in the real world, now have
we?
Richard F. Sayage
2004-06-26 21:48:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by William Jennings
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Why does doc have a pet goat? Now that's an interesting
topic,
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by William Jennings
no?
It is obvious those some haven't seen the movie. It opened last
night.
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by William Jennings
"My Pet Goat" was the childerns book Bush's was reading during the
Sept.
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by William Jennings
11th. attack on the twin towers.
http://s89194761.onlinehome.us/
Sadly, I have no goats of my own. The "Cabrito" I'm eating belonged
to
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by William Jennings
others. Could I recommend a 97' Tiezzi Brunello di Montalcino, it's
drinking well now.
Che' Goat Thief
P.S. Go see the movie.
Nah, knew that...it was more fun the other way. Saw it...great
movie...not
Post by Richard F. Sayage
in the real world though, as far as I live in it. I'm not sayin'
left,
Post by Richard F. Sayage
right, middle up or down. I don't really give a crap one way or the
other.
Post by Richard F. Sayage
But to think it is steeped in the total picture kinda thing...well,
that
Post by Richard F. Sayage
would be saying too much.. Now I ain't sayin' you're sayin' that.
I'm
Post by Richard F. Sayage
just thinking out loud. Very dangerous....me thinking at all, never
mind
Post by Richard F. Sayage
out loud.
hah
Rich
I'm neither left, right or of the middle. I thought Moore's movie an
interesting balance of ideological perspective an
entertainment. Who knows the total picture of anything these days?
Moore pokes ridicule and scorn at the president an Ashcroft, that's good
enough for me.
P.S. Neither you or I have elected to live in the real world, now have
we?
True!!! What was I thinkin'! Oh right....see...told ya hahahaha

Rich
REAL AMERICAN
2004-06-27 04:30:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
I'm neither left, right or of the middle. I thought Moore's movie an
interesting balance of ideological perspective an
entertainment. Who knows the total picture of anything these days?
Moore pokes ridicule and scorn at the president an Ashcroft, that's good
Problem with you Jennings, is that you don't even know what the hell you
stand for. Are you for this country or are you for all of the other
countrys? Stupid is what you are. Your all like "oh yeah everybody lets
go see Michael Moore's great new movie. He's a really great guy cause he
makes fun of the President. He's so great cause he puts down our great
country. He's so COOL!!!!!!!!! And then you say your not even a liberal.
HA! HA! HA! WE ALL KNOW WHAT YOU ARE!
REAL AMERICAN
2004-06-27 04:40:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
I'm neither left, right or of the middle. I thought Moore's movie an
interesting balance of ideological perspective an
entertainment. Who knows the total picture of anything these days?
Moore pokes ridicule and scorn at the president an Ashcroft, that's good
Problem with you Jennings, is that you don't even know what the hell you
stand for. Are you for this country or are you for all of the other
countrys? Stupid is what you are. Your all like "oh yeah everybody lets
go see Michael Moore's great new movie. He's a really great guy cause he
makes fun of the President. He's so great cause he puts down our great
country. He's so COOL!!!!!!!!! And then you say your not even a liberal.
HA! HA! HA! WE ALL KNOW WHAT YOU ARE!
Greg M Silverman
2004-06-26 21:33:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Why does doc have a pet goat? Now that's an interesting topic,
no?
It is obvious those some haven't seen the movie. It opened last night.
"My Pet Goat" was the childerns book Bush's was reading during the Sept.
11th. attack on the twin towers.
http://s89194761.onlinehome.us/
I like the idea of you rasing goats better. They're good for clearing
brush. W should get some to help him in Crawford.
Post by William Jennings
Sadly, I have no goats of my own. The "Cabrito" I'm eating belonged to
others. Could I recommend a 97' Tiezzi Brunello di Montalcino, it's
drinking well now.
Best goat I had was at a Nepalese place in Saint Paul. Felt kind of guilty
eating it though, since they are such cute creatures
Post by William Jennings
Che' Goat Thief
P.S. Go see the movie.
Don't really have the desire to, actually. Not really into going to see
movies.

gms--
William Jennings
2004-06-26 22:08:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by William Jennings
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Why does doc have a pet goat? Now that's an interesting topic,
no?
It is obvious those some haven't seen the movie. It opened last night.
"My Pet Goat" was the childerns book Bush's was reading during the Sept.
11th. attack on the twin towers.
http://s89194761.onlinehome.us/
I like the idea of you rasing goats better. They're good for clearing
brush. W should get some to help him in Crawford.
Nope, goats are very hard on the land. They spread weed seed an eat the
bark off fruit trees. The Texas town of Lajitas has had a beer drinking
goat for the last four mayors. Ol' Clay Henry III died recently, the
new mayor is Billy the Kid. Carl Sandburg raised goats and was a friend
of Segovia.
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by William Jennings
Sadly, I have no goats of my own. The "Cabrito" I'm eating belonged to
others. Could I recommend a 97' Tiezzi Brunello di Montalcino, it's
drinking well now.
Best goat I had was at a Nepalese place in Saint Paul. Felt kind of guilty
eating it though, since they are such cute creatures
The most succulent roasted goat I've found is "El Rey de Cabrito" in
Monterrey, Mexico.
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by William Jennings
Che' Goat Thief
P.S. Go see the movie.
Don't really have the desire to, actually. Not really into going to see
movies.
You don't need to go see the movie. You can read Jonathan Swift's "A
Modest Proposal" Swift's satirical
essay from 1729, where he suggests that the Irish eat their own
children. ...same thing, satirical overstatement.
Greg M Silverman
2004-06-26 22:39:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by William Jennings
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Why does doc have a pet goat? Now that's an interesting
topic,
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by William Jennings
no?
It is obvious those some haven't seen the movie. It opened last
night.
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by William Jennings
"My Pet Goat" was the childerns book Bush's was reading during the
Sept.
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by William Jennings
11th. attack on the twin towers.
http://s89194761.onlinehome.us/
I like the idea of you rasing goats better. They're good for clearing
brush. W should get some to help him in Crawford.
Nope, goats are very hard on the land. They spread weed seed an eat the
bark off fruit trees. The Texas town of Lajitas has had a beer drinking
goat for the last four mayors. Ol' Clay Henry III died recently, the
new mayor is Billy the Kid. Carl Sandburg raised goats and was a friend
of Segovia.
Controlled goats though have been used to clear undergrowth of urban
forests in parts of California to help reduce risk of forest fires.
Depends on what you do with them I guess.
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by William Jennings
Sadly, I have no goats of my own. The "Cabrito" I'm eating belonged
to
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by William Jennings
others. Could I recommend a 97' Tiezzi Brunello di Montalcino, it's
drinking well now.
Best goat I had was at a Nepalese place in Saint Paul. Felt kind of
guilty
Post by Greg M Silverman
eating it though, since they are such cute creatures
The most succulent roasted goat I've found is "El Rey de Cabrito" in
Monterrey, Mexico.
Am sure it was as good, or better than the stuff I had. Just won't eat it
since it would remind me to much of one of our dogs who looks very goatlike.
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by William Jennings
Che' Goat Thief
P.S. Go see the movie.
Don't really have the desire to, actually. Not really into going to
see
Post by Greg M Silverman
movies.
You don't need to go see the movie. You can read Jonathan Swift's "A
Modest Proposal" Swift's satirical
essay from 1729, where he suggests that the Irish eat their own
children. ...same thing, satirical overstatement.
Read it. Plump waifs on the street to be had for meals.

Hmmm... all this talk of food is making me hungry for dinner.

Got to go eat.

gms--
John Rimmer
2004-06-26 18:34:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by William Jennings
"Fahrenheit 9/11" sure backfired on those who would have shut
high-spirited pranks and satirical democratic self-expression down. Did
you note the guitar licks from "Cocaine" as the camera scanned Bush's
Texas Air National Guard records?
" Fahrenheit 9/11" obviously skews facts to its own advantage, but
that's what the game is all about, is it not?
Anyone found any "WMD's"?
Yep, they came to my back yard and found a Whacko-Megalo-Doofus...
WholeMessoDoofuses
Oh no, not the Wombats agin... (is this whatcha mean?)
I like Steve's comment, ala Brooklyn, I got yer Weapon of Mass Destruction
right here :-) haha
As for skewed to its own advantage?...hmmm...what advantage is there in
not presenting the whole truth, myriad sides, and objectivity....oh yes, a
BORING movie is what this would have been, perhaps....
You know this skewed thing is totally hypocritical, especially when the far
right accuses Mr. Moore of being completely so, more especially when they
listen to their talk radio gods, who of course, are masters of the art.
gms--
Greg,

The talk radio "gods" do not make any pretense that they are conservative.
Where-as Moore is trying to portray this film as a documentary, when it is
just a piece of propaganda for the enemy. Trash, in my opinion. On par
with Tokyo Rose from WWII. Politics used to stop at the waters edge, but no
more. People like Moore give aid and comfort to our enemy and encourage
them to continue to fight and kill in the hope that if they kill enough of
our people, then Bush will lose the election and they might win. They know
this country is divided. Michael Moore just hates the president, regardless
of the effect on our troops. Hate -- it used to be a real ugly word. Now
it seems to be easy to say. A sad and amazing transition of our society.

Every hopeful....time for a cigar and practice!

John
Greg M Silverman
2004-06-26 19:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by William Jennings
"Fahrenheit 9/11" sure backfired on those who would have shut
high-spirited pranks and satirical democratic self-expression down.
Did
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by William Jennings
you note the guitar licks from "Cocaine" as the camera scanned Bush's
Texas Air National Guard records?
" Fahrenheit 9/11" obviously skews facts to its own advantage, but
that's what the game is all about, is it not?
Anyone found any "WMD's"?
Yep, they came to my back yard and found a Whacko-Megalo-Doofus...
WholeMessoDoofuses
Oh no, not the Wombats agin... (is this whatcha mean?)
I like Steve's comment, ala Brooklyn, I got yer Weapon of Mass
Destruction
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
right here :-) haha
As for skewed to its own advantage?...hmmm...what advantage is there
in
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
not presenting the whole truth, myriad sides, and objectivity....oh yes,
a
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
BORING movie is what this would have been, perhaps....
You know this skewed thing is totally hypocritical, especially when the
far
Post by Greg M Silverman
right accuses Mr. Moore of being completely so, more especially when they
listen to their talk radio gods, who of course, are masters of the art.
gms--
Greg,
The talk radio "gods" do not make any pretense that they are conservative.
Where-as Moore is trying to portray this film as a documentary, when it is
just a piece of propaganda for the enemy. Trash, in my opinion. On par
with Tokyo Rose from WWII. Politics used to stop at the waters edge, but no
more. People like Moore give aid and comfort to our enemy and encourage
them to continue to fight and kill in the hope that if they kill enough of
our people, then Bush will lose the election and they might win. They know
this country is divided. Michael Moore just hates the president, regardless
of the effect on our troops. Hate -- it used to be a real ugly word. Now
it seems to be easy to say. A sad and amazing transition of our society.
Interesting take on the whole thing John. Don't quite agree with any of it, but
c'est la vie, eh? We each have our convictions and stick to 'em regardless.
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Every hopeful....time for a cigar and practice!
I'll skip the stoggie (I only have one when I go camping), but time to
practice, yes. Am working on playing the chord changes to "Why was I Born?" by
Jerome Kern, smoothly and with good even dynamics and tone on my mouth organ...
I REALLY friggin' miss playing CG! Sniff.... :(
But, I do enjoy playing mouth organ given its inherent challenges (like getting
even attack between a blow and a draw), there's just not as much sataisfaction
as there is in plucking and fretting, know what I mean?

Peace!

gms--
Greg M Silverman
2004-06-26 19:33:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by William Jennings
"Fahrenheit 9/11" sure backfired on those who would have shut
high-spirited pranks and satirical democratic self-expression down.
Did
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Post by William Jennings
you note the guitar licks from "Cocaine" as the camera scanned Bush's
Texas Air National Guard records?
" Fahrenheit 9/11" obviously skews facts to its own advantage, but
that's what the game is all about, is it not?
Anyone found any "WMD's"?
Yep, they came to my back yard and found a Whacko-Megalo-Doofus...
WholeMessoDoofuses
Oh no, not the Wombats agin... (is this whatcha mean?)
I like Steve's comment, ala Brooklyn, I got yer Weapon of Mass
Destruction
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
right here :-) haha
As for skewed to its own advantage?...hmmm...what advantage is there
in
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
not presenting the whole truth, myriad sides, and objectivity....oh yes,
a
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by Richard F. Sayage
BORING movie is what this would have been, perhaps....
You know this skewed thing is totally hypocritical, especially when the
far
Post by Greg M Silverman
right accuses Mr. Moore of being completely so, more especially when they
listen to their talk radio gods, who of course, are masters of the art.
gms--
Greg,
The talk radio "gods" do not make any pretense that they are conservative.
Where-as Moore is trying to portray this film as a documentary, when it is
just a piece of propaganda for the enemy. Trash, in my opinion. On par
with Tokyo Rose from WWII. Politics used to stop at the waters edge, but no
more. People like Moore give aid and comfort to our enemy and encourage
them to continue to fight and kill in the hope that if they kill enough of
our people, then Bush will lose the election and they might win. They know
this country is divided. Michael Moore just hates the president, regardless
of the effect on our troops. Hate -- it used to be a real ugly word. Now
it seems to be easy to say. A sad and amazing transition of our society.
Interesting take on the whole thing John. Don't quite agree with any of
it, but
c'est la vie, eh? We each have our convictions and stick to 'em regardless.
Post by Richard F. Sayage
Every hopeful....time for a cigar and practice!
I'll skip the stoggie (I only do 'em up when I go camping -- nothing
llike a good
stoggie and some scotch out of a flask while sitting in my comfy crazy
creek chair
in front of a nice camp fire), but time to practice, yes. Am working on
playing
the chord changes to "Why was I Born?" by Jerome Kern, smoothly and with
good even
dynamics and tone on my mouth organ... I REALLY friggin' miss playing
CG! Sniff.... :(


But, I do enjoy playing mouth organ given its inherent challenges (like getting
even attack between a blow and a draw), there's just not as much satisfaction
as there is in plucking and fretting, know what I mean? Also, this
really makes
me more aware of my breathing and phrasing.

Peace!

gms--
John Rimmer
2004-06-27 01:41:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg M Silverman
Post by John Rimmer
Every hopeful....time for a cigar and practice!
I'll skip the stoggie (I only do 'em up when I go camping -- nothing
llike a good
stoggie and some scotch out of a flask while sitting in my comfy crazy
creek chair
in front of a nice camp fire), but time to practice, yes. Am working on
playing
the chord changes to "Why was I Born?" by Jerome Kern, smoothly and with
good even
dynamics and tone on my mouth organ... I REALLY friggin' miss playing
CG! Sniff.... :(
But, I do enjoy playing mouth organ given its inherent challenges (like getting
even attack between a blow and a draw), there's just not as much satisfaction
as there is in plucking and fretting, know what I mean? Also, this
really makes
me more aware of my breathing and phrasing.
Peace!
gms--
I got this deal from Thompson Cigar...a 25 cigar bundle, HUMIDOR, and a
lighter for $30. The cigars are robusto seconds. That is, they are good
cigars, but not label worthy. I've smoked a lot of cigars from curly heads
to Don Diegos and these are just fine! Give them a little time in the
humidor and they get nothing but better...ahhh!
Cigar...guitar...guitar...cigar. They just go together. Just watch the
ashes and don't forget the wine or port!

I've fiddled with a mouth harp, but only when I'm playing Dylan with my neck
contraption...'tis fun, fun, fun.

John
Klaus Heim
2004-06-26 18:55:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg M Silverman
You know this skewed thing is totally hypocritical, especially when the far
right accuses Mr. Moore of being completely so, more especially when they
listen to their talk radio gods, who of course, are masters of the art.
I am a bit suprised at all the aggravation surrounding this movie. It's just
a movie. As an outsider, I see this 'discussion' about the movie as
symptomatic of the present state of affairs. The movie hasn't opened here
yet, but I somehow think watching it will be less enjoyable than watching
the commotion it has caused in the US.

Moore is very popular in Europe, as his recent reception in Cannes shows. In
part this is certainly due to the fact that his movies and books cater to
certain prejudices we may have concerning Americans, but I would wish to
think it is because Moore is understood as the archetypical "good American",
right down to his deeply felt patriotism.

What impressed me most about "Bowling for Columbine" were the comments by
Marilyn Manson. A guy made out to be the devil and the downfall of Western
civilization probably says the most sensible things in the whole movie.

I recently read "Let Freedom Ring" by Sean Hannity. I really enjoyed it, he
is at least as funny as Moore.

Klaus

P.S. If you don't like this post, blame Clinton.
Steven Bornfeld
2004-06-26 19:49:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Klaus Heim
Post by Greg M Silverman
You know this skewed thing is totally hypocritical, especially when the
far
Post by Greg M Silverman
right accuses Mr. Moore of being completely so, more especially when they
listen to their talk radio gods, who of course, are masters of the art.
I am a bit suprised at all the aggravation surrounding this movie. It's just
a movie. As an outsider, I see this 'discussion' about the movie as
symptomatic of the present state of affairs. The movie hasn't opened here
yet, but I somehow think watching it will be less enjoyable than watching
the commotion it has caused in the US.
Moore is very popular in Europe, as his recent reception in Cannes shows. In
part this is certainly due to the fact that his movies and books cater to
certain prejudices we may have concerning Americans, but I would wish to
think it is because Moore is understood as the archetypical "good American",
right down to his deeply felt patriotism.
What impressed me most about "Bowling for Columbine" were the comments by
Marilyn Manson. A guy made out to be the devil and the downfall of Western
civilization probably says the most sensible things in the whole movie.
I recently read "Let Freedom Ring" by Sean Hannity. I really enjoyed it, he
is at least as funny as Moore.
Probably for a lot of the same reasons.

Best,
Steve
Post by Klaus Heim
Klaus
P.S. If you don't like this post, blame Clinton.
JP
2004-06-27 22:18:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
Anyone found any "WMD's"?
Yes. Any informed person knows they were there. The were either very
well hidden, destroyed or given away.


Roadside Bomb Releases Sarin Gas in Baghdad
By Donna Miles
American Forces Press Service
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/May2004/n05172004_200405174.html

WASHINGTON, May 17, 2004 -- A roadside bomb containing the nerve agent
sarin — a substance Saddam Hussein's regime insisted it had destroyed
more than a decade ago — exploded near a U.S. military convoy
traveling near Baghdad, coalition officials said today.

Army Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, deputy operations director for
Multinational Force Iraq, told reporters in Baghdad a U.S. convoy
found the 155-millimeter artillery round rigged as an improvised
explosive device. The round detonated before the explosive ordnance
team could render it inert, Kimmitt said, spewing a small amount of
sarin gas.

The release caused two soldiers to be treated for only "minor
exposure," Kimmitt said, and the surrounding area needed no additional
decontamination.

Kimmitt said whoever rigged the device, likely from old regime
stockpiles, probably did not realize that it contained the deadly
nerve agent sarin.

The effect of the explosion was minimal because the agent was used in
a roadside bomb rather than being fired by an artillery piece, Kimmitt
said.

The type of round used, a "binary chemical projectile," has two
chambers that keep the chemical components inside separate until they
are fired by an artillery piece, Kimmitt explained. After firing, the
rotation of the artillery shell in flight causes the barrier between
the two substances to mix, creating sarin. The device releases the
agent when it lands and explodes.

However, when the round is used in an improvised explosive device,
Kimmitt said, the chemicals don't properly mix, so they produce only
"very, very small traces" of sarin gas. "When you rig it as an IED, it
just blows up and you have … minor amounts (of the chemical) going in
different directions," he said. "It's virtually ineffective as a
chemical weapon."

Kimmitt said the incident does not pose a continuing threat. He said
he would leave it to the Iraqi Survey Group to determine if the
incident gives credence to charges that Saddam Hussein had weapons of
mass destruction.

"The former regime had declared all such rounds destroyed before the
1991 Gulf War," he said.

(U. S. government publication -- public domain)
William Jennings
2004-06-27 22:50:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by JP
Post by William Jennings
Anyone found any "WMD's"?
Yes. Any informed person knows they were there. The were either very
well hidden, destroyed or given away.
This is great news. Perhaps you could share this news with Hans Blix,
Henry Waxman (California Democrat) Senator John Warner, the Republican
chairman of the armed services panel and the Senate Armed Services and
Intelligence Committees to help in their investigations.

As an informed person, you know a full-scale Congressional inquiry has
been ordered this month on the use and possible abuse of intelligence
information on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Che'
William Jennings
2004-06-27 22:59:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by JP
Post by William Jennings
Anyone found any "WMD's"?
Yes. Any informed person knows they were there. The were either very
well hidden, destroyed or given away.
Here you go: http://tinyurl.com/5uvq
Ed Spyhill
2004-06-26 17:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Sloan
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
John Sloan
The reviewer, Christopher Hitchens, is not without his right wing
bias in this review. It seems the conservatives are in a full
court press to stay in power. I just read an article that listed
the roll back of the environmental laws by Bush. This president
scares me. They have the courts in their corner. A court just
ruled Chaney does not have to release documents from the energy
meeting. As a person who has voted republican most of my life
I'm concerned with this adminstration, this supreme court, the
Clear Channel connection to Bush, Haliburton (millions in overcharges
and nobody is in trouble), Bush talking to god, the government
assisting with outsourcing... This is a long list; too long to
fall back on party ties when voting.

Ed S.
ITMX925
2004-06-28 03:33:53 UTC
Permalink
Can you believe any reviewer who uses the word lugubrious?

It seems there must be something afoot if people are so concerned about a
movie. It is merely an individual point of view brought to life with hugh money
and thousands of people - pre-production, post-production - and every
individual appearing in the movie.

It reminds me of a great line from Gypsy Rose Lee - "you read book reviews as
if they was books."

I saw Two Brothers this afternoon and it angers me that mankind has nearly
abolished the world's tiger population. In my book, tigers should be given a
wide path to continue their life. They are more noble than far too many human
beings.

'JohnDowland'
Edward Bridge
2004-06-30 18:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Give me our young hero from Queens, New York. Now there's someone that I
and the whole family can believe in. A kid from a good family ,who saves New
York. He's not left wing ,not right wing, he's just a guy who swings
.Falling in love with a women while doing his thing.

Will someone please buy a guitar so I can take the kids to see spiderman
Catwomen is also on my mind but I save it . . :>)


Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com





--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com
Post by ITMX925
Can you believe any reviewer who uses the word lugubrious?
It seems there must be something afoot if people are so concerned about a
movie. It is merely an individual point of view brought to life with hugh money
and thousands of people - pre-production, post-production - and every
individual appearing in the movie.
It reminds me of a great line from Gypsy Rose Lee - "you read book reviews as
if they was books."
I saw Two Brothers this afternoon and it angers me that mankind has nearly
abolished the world's tiger population. In my book, tigers should be given a
wide path to continue their life. They are more noble than far too many human
beings.
'JohnDowland'
David Raleigh Arnold
2004-06-30 23:05:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Sloan
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
John Sloan
I haven't seen it yet, but two of my kids have, and they say that
the movie just says what I have been telling them for 12 years.

The negative reviews are by people who don't want anyone to see
it. It worked with JFK, and there are still some folks who don't
admit that K was shot from the front (and below, from a storm
drain.) It might work with this movie too. People are pretty
stupid. daveA
--
Paying more at the gas pump? Bush's Oil Sheikh Buddies, who support Al
Qaeda, Palestinian terrorists, & hate-U.S. school systems everywhere,
need more of your money now to arm and pay Iraqis to kill Americans.
D. Raleigh Arnold dra@ (http://www.) openguitar.com ***@cox.net
Reza Ganjavi (www.rezamusic.com)
2004-07-01 00:27:15 UTC
Permalink
David, cool message.
Well Moore thanked the people who are telling others not to see it because
apparently it is making more people see it :-)
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Post by John Sloan
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
John Sloan
I haven't seen it yet, but two of my kids have, and they say that
the movie just says what I have been telling them for 12 years.
The negative reviews are by people who don't want anyone to see
it. It worked with JFK, and there are still some folks who don't
admit that K was shot from the front (and below, from a storm
drain.) It might work with this movie too. People are pretty
stupid. daveA
--
Paying more at the gas pump? Bush's Oil Sheikh Buddies, who support Al
Qaeda, Palestinian terrorists, & hate-U.S. school systems everywhere,
need more of your money now to arm and pay Iraqis to kill Americans.
David Kotschessa
2004-07-01 17:03:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Reza Ganjavi (www.rezamusic.com)
David, cool message.
Well Moore thanked the people who are telling others not to see it because
apparently it is making more people see it :-)
The ones that should see it most probably won't...
John Sloan
2004-07-01 18:35:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kotschessa
Post by Reza Ganjavi (www.rezamusic.com)
David, cool message.
Well Moore thanked the people who are telling others not to see it because
apparently it is making more people see it :-)
The ones that should see it most probably won't...
I can't help noticing that no one in this thread has actually discussed the
content of the review. I wouldn't mind hearing from those who have seen
the movie, and wish to talk about it. What do you think of the alleged
inaccuraries and inconsistencies Hitchens mentions in his review? For
instance, what did you think of Hitchen's charge that in the movie "Moore
asserts that Iraq under Saddam had never attacked or killed or even
threatened (his words) any American."? Is this accurate?

I would like to see the movie and shall, but haven't had a chance yet (one
of the minor drawbacks of living in small-town Alberta).

John Sloan
Alpha_Omega
2004-07-01 20:22:30 UTC
Permalink
I can't speak to that specific claim, but Moore does show documented
evidence of other claims, such as items blacked out in memos, interviews
with former staff/organization members, etc. It's a "must-see" movie if
there ever were one. The audience at my theater applauded wildly at its
conclusion!
Post by John Sloan
I can't help noticing that no one in this thread has actually discussed the
content of the review. I wouldn't mind hearing from those who have seen
the movie, and wish to talk about it. What do you think of the alleged
inaccuraries and inconsistencies Hitchens mentions in his review? For
instance, what did you think of Hitchen's charge that in the movie "Moore
asserts that Iraq under Saddam had never attacked or killed or even
threatened (his words) any American."? Is this accurate?
I would like to see the movie and shall, but haven't had a chance yet (one
of the minor drawbacks of living in small-town Alberta).
John Sloan
Larry Deack
2004-07-01 20:37:23 UTC
Permalink
"Alpha_Omega"
Post by Alpha_Omega
The audience at my theater applauded
wildly at its conclusion!
They were that happy it was over?

Did anybody play guitar in the movie?
William Jennings
2004-07-01 21:28:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
"Alpha_Omega"
Post by Alpha_Omega
The audience at my theater applauded
wildly at its conclusion!
They were that happy it was over?
Every showing was sold out in advance in San Antonio. It was a
happeneing.
Post by Larry Deack
Did anybody play guitar in the movie?
Of course! Cocaine Blues guitar riffs in the background as "W" read
"My Pet Goat" to the school kids. This btw, was being filmed while the
first and second airplanes hit the Twin Towers. You can see when his
people told him what was going on.
The look on his face is..... well it's priceless "What A RUSH". Think
of these words to the song when you see it:

"Well, I reached into my pocket, grabbed my poke,
Note in my pocket said, ""No more coke.""
Cocaine run all 'round my brain."

Here is a lame arrangement:
http://www.torvund.net/guitar/BluesGuitar/C-major_2.asp

I do it a little more complex and sometimes when I drink too much, I
sorta' sing it. I have to be in just the right mood. :-)


"W" had a little thing for snow in his wild and wooly days. Me too.
I would have never executed that young women in the Texas prison system
,or others, like he did while in office. Bush lost me when he was the
governor of this state!

Che'
John Rimmer
2004-07-01 23:04:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
Post by Larry Deack
"Alpha_Omega"
Post by Alpha_Omega
The audience at my theater applauded
wildly at its conclusion!
They were that happy it was over?
Every showing was sold out in advance in San Antonio. It was a
happeneing.
Post by Larry Deack
Did anybody play guitar in the movie?
Of course! Cocaine Blues guitar riffs in the background as "W" read
"My Pet Goat" to the school kids. This btw, was being filmed while the
first and second airplanes hit the Twin Towers. You can see when his
people told him what was going on.
The look on his face is..... well it's priceless "What A RUSH". Think
"Well, I reached into my pocket, grabbed my poke,
Note in my pocket said, ""No more coke.""
Cocaine run all 'round my brain."
http://www.torvund.net/guitar/BluesGuitar/C-major_2.asp
I do it a little more complex and sometimes when I drink too much, I
sorta' sing it. I have to be in just the right mood. :-)
"W" had a little thing for snow in his wild and wooly days. Me too.
I would have never executed that young women in the Texas prison system
,or others, like he did while in office. Bush lost me when he was the
governor of this state!
Che'
Do you mean that drug-crazed woman who murdered a man and woman with a
pickaxe so they could steal a Harley and some money? Nice gal...too bad.
William Jennings
2004-07-02 00:00:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Rimmer
Do you mean that drug-crazed woman who murdered a man and woman with a
pickaxe so they could steal a Harley and some money? Nice gal...too
bad.<

She was a Natural Born Killer. No, she was not a nice gal. She should
have been shot on site, imo, but she wasn't. There was quite a story
about that gal shot right out of Hell. 60 Minutes did a documentary as
did several monthly magazines concerning her special case.

Yes, she deserved to remain in prison the rest of her life. Somehow she
had seen some glimmer of light and there was no need to kill her. We
have a choice, to kill or not to kill. It is my choice not to kill.
Bush claims to be a born- again +. Why not her? Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt
not kill. Well, is that cut and dry or what? Nice Commandment #6.....
too bad.

She walked straight in the death chamber without so much as a blink. She
was not waiting for any miracle. Check out Leonard Cohen. Listen to
"Waiting for The Miracle". Get the soundtrack with Duane Eddy.

Should they have sent Ledbetter to the electric chair or hung him? They
elected not.

"One of the songs I'm gonna sing is 'We all in the same boat brother.
You rock it too far to the right you fall in the waddah, rock it too far
to the left you fall in the same waddah, and it's just as wet on both
sides."
Huddie Ledbetter

http://www.deltablues.net/lead.html
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/ledbetter.html
http://www.geocities.com/aaronbcaldwell/NBK.html
John Rimmer
2004-07-02 02:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
Post by John Rimmer
Do you mean that drug-crazed woman who murdered a man and woman with a
pickaxe so they could steal a Harley and some money? Nice gal...too
bad.<
She was a Natural Born Killer. No, she was not a nice gal. She should
have been shot on site, imo, but she wasn't. There was quite a story
about that gal shot right out of Hell. 60 Minutes did a documentary as
did several monthly magazines concerning her special case.
Yes, she deserved to remain in prison the rest of her life. Somehow she
had seen some glimmer of light and there was no need to kill her. We
have a choice, to kill or not to kill. It is my choice not to kill.
Bush claims to be a born- again +. Why not her? Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt
not kill. Well, is that cut and dry or what? Nice Commandment #6.....
too bad.
She walked straight in the death chamber without so much as a blink. She
was not waiting for any miracle. Check out Leonard Cohen. Listen to
"Waiting for The Miracle". Get the soundtrack with Duane Eddy.
Should they have sent Ledbetter to the electric chair or hung him? They
elected not.
"One of the songs I'm gonna sing is 'We all in the same boat brother.
You rock it too far to the right you fall in the waddah, rock it too far
to the left you fall in the same waddah, and it's just as wet on both
sides."
Huddie Ledbetter
http://www.deltablues.net/lead.html
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/ledbetter.html
http://www.geocities.com/aaronbcaldwell/NBK.html
The point is, it is the Governor's job to enforce the law. There was no
question of the womans guilt, so why criticize the man for doing his job?
If he stepped over the law for his own personal feelings on the matter, then
that would be a valid criticism. The law is the law and you either enforce
it or you fail to do your job. It is up to the Supreme Court to rule if the
state can have the law. If you do not like the death penalty, then your
gripe is against the legislature and the people who elected them.

I do not agree with the biblical commandment argument. That is referring to
the type of Cain vs Able killing. Not a judicial procedure. The Jews of
that time had *PLENTY* of capital offenses that they were just fine and
dandy with. I think they used stones...

Now...on to a good cigar, Carcassi, Brouwer, and Sor...Cheers!
William Jennings
2004-07-02 07:53:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Rimmer
Post by William Jennings
Post by John Rimmer
Do you mean that drug-crazed woman who murdered a man and woman with a
pickaxe so they could steal a Harley and some money? Nice gal...too
bad.<
She was a Natural Born Killer. No, she was not a nice gal. She should
have been shot on site, imo, but she wasn't. There was quite a story
about that gal shot right out of Hell. 60 Minutes did a documentary as
did several monthly magazines concerning her special case.
Yes, she deserved to remain in prison the rest of her life. Somehow she
had seen some glimmer of light and there was no need to kill her.
We
Post by John Rimmer
Post by William Jennings
have a choice, to kill or not to kill. It is my choice not to kill.
Bush claims to be a born- again +. Why not her? Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt
not kill. Well, is that cut and dry or what? Nice Commandment #6.....
too bad.
She walked straight in the death chamber without so much as a blink. She
was not waiting for any miracle. Check out Leonard Cohen. Listen to
"Waiting for The Miracle". Get the soundtrack with Duane Eddy.
Should they have sent Ledbetter to the electric chair or hung him?
They
Post by John Rimmer
Post by William Jennings
elected not.
"One of the songs I'm gonna sing is 'We all in the same boat
brother.
Post by John Rimmer
Post by William Jennings
You rock it too far to the right you fall in the waddah, rock it too far
to the left you fall in the same waddah, and it's just as wet on both
sides."
Huddie Ledbetter
http://www.deltablues.net/lead.html
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/ledbetter.html
http://www.geocities.com/aaronbcaldwell/NBK.html
The point is, it is the Governor's job to enforce the law. There was no
question of the womans guilt, so why criticize the man for doing his job?
If he stepped over the law for his own personal feelings on the matter, then
that would be a valid criticism. The law is the law and you either enforce
it or you fail to do your job. It is up to the Supreme Court to rule if the
state can have the law. If you do not like the death penalty, then your
gripe is against the legislature and the people who elected them.
I do not agree with the biblical commandment argument. That is referring to
the type of Cain vs Able killing. Not a judicial procedure. The Jews of
that time had *PLENTY* of capital offenses that they were just fine and
dandy with. I think they used stones...
Well.... would you not rather be stoned than killed? :-)

It's the power of the state to kill. A Governor's job description to do
his duty to the state. We can sure make simple things complicated. I
agree with San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom who had the guts to stand up
to the state on what's right.
I have never figured things out even a tiny bit. We have a choice, I
elect not to kill. Sometimes we don't have a choice,
you are right, we must kill. But given a choice, I say, elect not to
kill and this keeps things simple for me. I'm sorta' simple- minded.

Here is proof for the simple:
http://www.philosophy.umd.edu/people/faculty/pcarruthers/Simple-minds.htm



God's Song (That's Why I Love Mankind) Randy Newman

Cain slew Abel, Seth knew not why
For if the children of Israel were to multiply
Why must any of the children die?
So he asked the Lord
And the Lord said:

Man means nothing, he means less to me
Than the lowliest cactus flower
Or the humblest Yucca tree
He chases round this desert
'Cause he thinks that's where I'll be
That's why I love mankind

I recoil in horror from the foulness of thee
From the squalor and the filth and the misery
How we laugh up here in heaven at the prayers you offer me
That's why I love mankind

The Christians and the Jews were having a jamboree
The Buddhists and the Hindus joined on satellite TV
They picked their four greatest priests
And they began to speak
They said, "Lord, a plague is on the world
Lord, no man is free
The temples that we built to you
Have tumbled into the sea
Lord, if you won't take care of us
Won't you please, please let us be?"
And the Lord said
And the Lord said

I burn down your cities-how blind you must be
I take from you your children and you say how blessed are we
You all must be crazy to put your faith in me
That's why I love mankind
You really need me
That's why I love mankind
Post by John Rimmer
Now...on to a good cigar, Carcassi, Brouwer, and Sor...Cheers!
Che' ( I will not get stoned, I will not get stoned, I will not get
stoned, I will not get stoned) :-)
thomas
2004-07-02 19:32:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Rimmer
The point is, it is the Governor's job to enforce the law. There was no
question of the womans guilt, so why criticize the man for doing his job?
We used to call this "the Nuremburg defense".
Howard Posner
2004-07-03 04:25:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Rimmer
I do not agree with the biblical commandment argument. That is referring to
the type of Cain vs Able killing. Not a judicial procedure. The Jews of
that time had *PLENTY* of capital offenses that they were just fine and
dandy with.
No, they were not fine and dandy with them. Virtually every death penalty
was ringed with exceptions and interpreted away in the oral law, which
started to get written down around the second century BCE. For example, the
correct answer to the question posed to Jesus in the book of John -- shall a
woman be executed for adultery -- was "only if two witnesses swear not only
that they saw her commit adultery [unlikely unless she was doing it in the
street] but that someone explained to her before she did it that it was
crime punishable by death and she said she understood and went ahead
anyway." Which is to say, the only women you could execute for adultery were
suicidal exhibitionists. The answer would have been known to Jesus and his
interlocutors, so the real point of the question was "why is the law as
enforced so different from the law as written?" This explains a lot about
his answer.
Carlos Barrientos
2004-07-02 03:13:47 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 19:00:04 -0500, "William Jennings"
S
Carlos Barrientos
"mailto:***@sprintmail.com"
Phone: (229)-438-1087

"A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who
works with his hands and brain is a craftman; but a man
who works with his hands & brain & heart is an artist."
- James L. Hayes
Carlos Barrientos
2004-07-02 03:15:21 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 19:00:04 -0500, "William Jennings"
Post by William Jennings
Bush claims to be a born- again +. Why not her? Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt
not kill. Well, is that cut and dry or what? Nice Commandment #6.....
too bad.
Oye Jennings,

Most Christians handle the Commandments like they were the Ten
Suggestions... Ever notice that?


Carlos Barrientos
"mailto:***@sprintmail.com"
Phone: (229)-438-1087

"A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who
works with his hands and brain is a craftman; but a man
who works with his hands & brain & heart is an artist."
- James L. Hayes
William Jennings
2004-07-02 05:59:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carlos Barrientos
On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 19:00:04 -0500, "William Jennings"
Post by William Jennings
Bush claims to be a born- again +. Why not her? Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt
not kill. Well, is that cut and dry or what? Nice Commandment #6.....
too bad.
Oye Jennings,
Most Christians handle the Commandments like they were the Ten
Suggestions... Ever notice that?
I can't believe I said that. In your state a judge had the
Commandments cut in stone and mounted in the courthouse. I didn't agree
with it. He could have put them on the front lawn so any time you
passed by it might reminded you. I know I need reminding a lot. When
was the last time you heard a church bell toll? When you lived at the
corner of 3era Ave #3-60 I'll bet.

Btw, Barrientos..."A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man
who
Post by Carlos Barrientos
works with his hands and brain is a craftman; but a man
who works with his hands & brain & heart is a cardiologist."
Che'
Larry Deack
2004-07-02 07:07:00 UTC
Permalink
"William Jennings"
a man who works with his hands & brain & heart is a cardiologist."
He works with his OWN heart? Now there's a REAL cardiologist!
William Jennings
2004-07-02 07:44:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carlos Barrientos
"William Jennings"
a man who works with his hands & brain & heart is a cardiologist."
He works with his OWN heart? Now there's a REAL cardiologist!
So, any thoughts on proctoligest?
Carlos Barrientos
2004-07-02 15:02:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
Post by Carlos Barrientos
"William Jennings"
a man who works with his hands & brain & heart is a cardiologist."
That shot was cute and beneath your humor skills. Waaayyyyyyy to
easy... You're usually much better... you sound tired, are ya OK, mi
Che?
Post by William Jennings
Post by Carlos Barrientos
He works with his OWN heart? Now there's a REAL cardiologist!
Mmmmm, still weak...
Post by William Jennings
So, any thoughts on proctoligest?
You need to check your spelling, for one...

They make more money than guitarists for a lot less shit?

Maestro Jennings,
I live on the BUCKLE of the Bible belt... I keep wondering if there
are newspapers in this country where there IS NOT a section on
RELIGION. I might consider moving there. All things being equal,
however, I've never been woken up on the morning after a gig by
someone asking me if I've been saved or if I know Jesus, or something
equally inane by a Jew or a Buddhist, or even a Muslim.
William Jennings
2004-07-02 15:57:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carlos Barrientos
Snip<
Post by William Jennings
So, any thoughts on proctoligest?
You need to check your spelling, for one...
That proves I know nothing about the subject!
Post by Carlos Barrientos
They make more money than guitarists for a lot less shit?
They should, they spend their lives looking up other people's
ying-yang.
Post by Carlos Barrientos
Maestro Jennings,
I live on the BUCKLE of the Bible belt... I keep wondering if there
are newspapers in this country where there IS NOT a section on
RELIGION.
You can move over here, we don't have a newspaper.
Post by Carlos Barrientos
I've never been woken up on the morning after a gig by
someone asking me if I've been saved or if I know Jesus, or something
equally inane by a Jew or a Buddhist, or even a Muslim.
I once knew a guitarist that did a nun who woke up dick-struck.

Che'
Carlos Barrientos
2004-07-02 16:17:52 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 10:57:53 -0500, "William Jennings"
Post by William Jennings
Post by Carlos Barrientos
Snip<
Post by William Jennings
So, any thoughts on proctoligest?
You need to check your spelling, for one...
That proves I know nothing about the subject!
Post by Carlos Barrientos
They make more money than guitarists for a lot less shit?
They should, they spend their lives looking up other people's
ying-yang.
Post by Carlos Barrientos
Maestro Jennings,
I live on the BUCKLE of the Bible belt... I keep wondering if there
are newspapers in this country where there IS NOT a section on
RELIGION.
You can move over here, we don't have a newspaper.
Post by Carlos Barrientos
I've never been woken up on the morning after a gig by
someone asking me if I've been saved or if I know Jesus, or something
equally inane by a Jew or a Buddhist, or even a Muslim.
I once knew a guitarist that did a nun who woke up dick-struck.
Che'
And then there's the moral dilemma of a Sacred Heart of Jesus tattoo
above the crack of a wonderful posterior... proceed, anyone?

TABOOS

hahaha
Carlos Barrientos
"mailto:***@sprintmail.com"
Phone: (229)-438-1087

"A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who
works with his hands and brain is a craftman; but a man
who works with his hands & brain & heart is an artist."
- James L. Hayes
William Jennings
2004-07-02 16:27:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carlos Barrientos
On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 10:57:53 -0500, "William Jennings"
Post by William Jennings
Post by Carlos Barrientos
Snip<
Post by William Jennings
So, any thoughts on proctoligest?
You need to check your spelling, for one...
That proves I know nothing about the subject!
Post by Carlos Barrientos
They make more money than guitarists for a lot less shit?
They should, they spend their lives looking up other people's
ying-yang.
Post by Carlos Barrientos
Maestro Jennings,
I live on the BUCKLE of the Bible belt... I keep wondering if there
are newspapers in this country where there IS NOT a section on
RELIGION.
You can move over here, we don't have a newspaper.
Post by Carlos Barrientos
I've never been woken up on the morning after a gig by
someone asking me if I've been saved or if I know Jesus, or
something
Post by Carlos Barrientos
Post by William Jennings
Post by Carlos Barrientos
equally inane by a Jew or a Buddhist, or even a Muslim.
I once knew a guitarist that did a nun who woke up dick-struck.
Che'
And then there's the moral dilemma of a Sacred Heart of Jesus tattoo
above the crack of a wonderful posterior... proceed, anyone?
In cases like this one must focus and keep your eyes on the prize.
I'm slowly waking up.

Che'
Carlos Barrientos
2004-07-02 18:19:23 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:27:07 -0500, "William Jennings"
Post by richard c. spross
Post by Carlos Barrientos
On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 10:57:53 -0500, "William Jennings"
Post by William Jennings
Post by Carlos Barrientos
Snip<
Post by William Jennings
So, any thoughts on proctoligest?
You need to check your spelling, for one...
That proves I know nothing about the subject!
Post by Carlos Barrientos
They make more money than guitarists for a lot less shit?
They should, they spend their lives looking up other people's
ying-yang.
Post by Carlos Barrientos
Maestro Jennings,
I live on the BUCKLE of the Bible belt... I keep wondering if there
are newspapers in this country where there IS NOT a section on
RELIGION.
You can move over here, we don't have a newspaper.
Post by Carlos Barrientos
I've never been woken up on the morning after a gig by
someone asking me if I've been saved or if I know Jesus, or
something
Post by Carlos Barrientos
Post by William Jennings
Post by Carlos Barrientos
equally inane by a Jew or a Buddhist, or even a Muslim.
I once knew a guitarist that did a nun who woke up dick-struck.
Che'
And then there's the moral dilemma of a Sacred Heart of Jesus tattoo
above the crack of a wonderful posterior... proceed, anyone?
In cases like this one must focus and keep your eyes on the prize.
I knew we could come to a moment of, ahem, communion, my dear Che, I
suppose we are catholic in many of our approaches...
Carlos Barrientos
"mailto:***@sprintmail.com"
Phone: (229)-438-1087

"A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who
works with his hands and brain is a craftman; but a man
who works with his hands & brain & heart is an artist."
- James L. Hayes
thomas
2004-07-02 21:02:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
I can't believe I said that. In your state a judge had the
Commandments cut in stone and mounted in the courthouse. I didn't agree
with it. He could have put them on the front lawn so any time you
passed by it might reminded you. I know I need reminding a lot.
Despite how you may have personally felt about the issue, there was
a good, logical reason for removing the Ten Commandments monument
from the Alabama Supreme Court building.

You cannot post things like "Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Thou Shalt
Not Commit Adultery," and "Thou Shall Not Lie" in a building full
of lawyers, judges and politicians.

It creates a hostile work environment.
thomas
2004-07-02 21:02:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
I can't believe I said that. In your state a judge had the
Commandments cut in stone and mounted in the courthouse. I didn't agree
with it. He could have put them on the front lawn so any time you
passed by it might reminded you. I know I need reminding a lot.
Despite how you may have personally felt about the issue, there was
a good, logical reason for removing the Ten Commandments monument
from the Alabama Supreme Court building.

You cannot post things like "Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Thou Shalt
Not Commit Adultery," and "Thou Shall Not Lie" in a building full
of lawyers, judges and politicians.

It creates a hostile work environment.
Chris Mullin
2004-07-02 01:22:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alpha_Omega
I can't speak to that specific claim, but Moore does show documented
evidence of other claims, such as items blacked out in memos, interviews
with former staff/organization members, etc. It's a "must-see" movie if
there ever were one. The audience at my theater applauded wildly at its
conclusion!
Perhaps they were glad it was finally over... :)
Alpha_Omega
2004-07-02 08:54:26 UTC
Permalink
That was just sooo funny the first few times...
Post by Chris Mullin
Perhaps they were glad it was finally over... :)
John Sloan
2004-07-02 05:28:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alpha_Omega
I can't speak to that specific claim, but Moore does show documented
evidence of other claims, such as items blacked out in memos, interviews
with former staff/organization members, etc. It's a "must-see" movie if
there ever were one.
The audience at my theater applauded wildly at its conclusion!
This seems to be happening at many theaters across the country, judging from
the reviews I've been reading.

John Sloan
Paolo
2004-07-02 14:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Sloan
Post by Alpha_Omega
I can't speak to that specific claim, but Moore does show documented
evidence of other claims, such as items blacked out in memos, interviews
with former staff/organization members, etc. It's a "must-see" movie if
there ever were one.
The audience at my theater applauded wildly at its conclusion!
This seems to be happening at many theaters across the country, judging from
the reviews I've been reading.
John Sloan
It's international. I saw it in Toronto - same reaction.
I think Moore's film successfully addresses what the left has
maintained for a long time - that the scope of discourse
in the mainstream media in the US has become shockingly narrow. One
can and should quibble with the details, and I think that
Hitchens does a good job of this, but the point is that there are some
extremely serious allegations made in the film (quite convincingly, I
might add) which have not been discussed on CNN.
BTW, I disagree with Hitchen's potshot at Moore's handling of the
grieving mother of a fallen soldier - I think she wanted to tell her
story. Hitchen's stiff-upper-lipism on this matter, as well as his
characterization of Moore as 'silly', are shallow and pretentious.
Klaus Heim
2004-07-02 14:45:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paolo
It's international. I saw it in Toronto - same reaction.
I think Moore's film successfully addresses what the left has
maintained for a long time - that the scope of discourse
in the mainstream media in the US has become shockingly narrow. One
can and should quibble with the details, and I think that
Hitchens does a good job of this, but the point is that there are some
extremely serious allegations made in the film (quite convincingly, I
might add) which have not been discussed on CNN.
Yes. Exactly what Paul Krugman writes today in his New York Times Op-Ed
column. "These people see the film to learn true stories they should have
heard elsewhere, but didn't. Mr. Moore may not be considered respectable,
but his film is a hit because the respectable media haven't been doing their
job." At least the NYT has conceded to making mistakes in their own
coverage. Krugman finishes with: "Fahrenheit 9/11 is a tendentious, flawed
movie, but it tells essential truths about leaders who exploited a national
tragedy for political gain, and the ordinary Americans who paid the price."

Klaus
William D Clinger
2004-07-02 14:50:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Sloan
I would like to see the movie and shall, but haven't had a chance yet (one
of the minor drawbacks of living in small-town Alberta).
John Sloan
I haven't seen the movie either. My whole family wants to see
it, and we're waiting for a time when we can see it together.

I enjoyed Hitchens's review, and thought it a masterpiece of its
genre. Thank you for posting the URL.

As for questioning the film's accuracy and logic, I think that's
a little like questioning the accuracy and logic of the slogans
Texans shouted at the decisive battle of San Jacinto on 21 April
1836: "Remember the Alamo! Remember Goliad!"

Santa Anna had the legal right to storm the Alamo, and to kill its
rebellious defenders, most of whom fought to the death anyway. At
Goliad, Fannin surrendered "at discretion" on behalf of his 400 men
when their ammunition ran out. That meant Santa Anna had the legal
right to order the execution of those men, which was carried out
one week later.

So the Texans were upset about stuff that was perfectly legal at
the time. Had Hitchens been there to set them straight, about 700
Mexican lives would have been spared, and Texas would have remained
a part of Mexico.

Will
Carlos Barrientos
2004-07-02 15:25:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by William D Clinger
Post by John Sloan
I would like to see the movie and shall, but haven't had a chance yet (one
of the minor drawbacks of living in small-town Alberta).
John Sloan
I haven't seen the movie either. My whole family wants to see
it, and we're waiting for a time when we can see it together.
I enjoyed Hitchens's review, and thought it a masterpiece of its
genre. Thank you for posting the URL.
As for questioning the film's accuracy and logic, I think that's
a little like questioning the accuracy and logic of the slogans
Texans shouted at the decisive battle of San Jacinto on 21 April
1836: "Remember the Alamo! Remember Goliad!"
Santa Anna had the legal right to storm the Alamo, and to kill its
rebellious defenders, most of whom fought to the death anyway. At
Goliad, Fannin surrendered "at discretion" on behalf of his 400 men
when their ammunition ran out. That meant Santa Anna had the legal
right to order the execution of those men, which was carried out
one week later.
So the Texans were upset about stuff that was perfectly legal at
the time. Had Hitchens been there to set them straight, about 700
Mexican lives would have been spared, and Texas would have remained
a part of Mexico.
Will
Next time I am in Tejas eating a Taco, I'll think about the fact that
it's part of that young country called Los Estados Unidos de America.
A border moved, legal papers printed... se habla espanol en Tejas...

Be well, Willl!
Carlos Barrientos
"mailto:***@sprintmail.com"
Phone: (229)-438-1087

"A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who
works with his hands and brain is a craftman; but a man
who works with his hands & brain & heart is an artist."
- James L. Hayes
William Jennings
2004-07-02 16:17:09 UTC
Permalink
Had Hitchens been there to set them straight, about 700
Post by Carlos Barrientos
Post by William D Clinger
Mexican lives would have been spared, and Texas would have remained
a part of Mexico.
Will
Next time I am in Tejas eating a Taco, I'll think about the fact that
it's part of that young country called Los Estados Unidos de America.
A border moved, legal papers printed... se habla espanol en Tejas...
My place is about 32 miles from Goliad:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/expltx/eft/goliad/espiritu.htm
We all speak Vietnamese and eat Pho.

Che'
thomas
2004-07-02 19:27:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by William D Clinger
So the Texans were upset about stuff that was perfectly legal at
the time. Had Hitchens been there to set them straight, about 700
Mexican lives would have been spared, and Texas would have remained
a part of Mexico.
Not bloody likely. The Texicans were irked in large part
because Mexico was fixing to outlaw slavery. Southerners
didn't like to give up their capital without a struggle.
Alain Reiher
2004-07-02 16:29:19 UTC
Permalink
But we have Canada Day ... and a new minority gvt to celebrate! Happy
Canada day! [ a minority holiday in a vast sand box...]
There is, parallel to the M. Moore movie, a very intriguing documentary
called "the agronomist" ... about (the tragic story of) the Haitian
journalist - radio voice, Jean Dominique ...Those two are definitely on my
to see soon list. (Also the "Banana republic" one ... but that is another
story!) I am still under the impression that a majority of Canadian
appreciate M. Moore more than the people of his own country! (Nul n'est
prophète en son pays) I really enjoy his two other documentaries, Bowling
for Columbine and Corporation ... I think that being in Canada we escape the
controversy and the emotional debates that can spring from the closeness of
his subject with the American people and can appreciate M. Moore for
his effort to bring forth a different point of view to the kept in the dark
by the (weapon of) media (desensitizing) propaganda ... During the last two
decades we have seen an alarming rise of the extreme right in the northern
hemisphere ... culminating for us, Canadian with, the 99 seats comeback of
the reform/alliance/PC party at the last elections, no later than five days
ago ... thanks to their growth by osmosis, the fatigue of the people towards
the "impure" Liberals, the seemingly impossible reconciliation with the
Block
Quebecois determined outlook of a distinct nation and the low profile of the
NDP ... we have now
a political landscape that has changed more than the American one... but
still, we are basically caught up, like them in between two, less than
convincing (in my opinion) political parties. Ever balancing from the red
to the blue to the red to the blue to the red to the blue to the red to the
blue ... To the point that when someone like M. Moore appears on the scene
he is looked upon largely as a leftist (oriented) voice!

Alain
Post by Klaus Heim
Post by David Kotschessa
Post by Reza Ganjavi (www.rezamusic.com)
David, cool message.
Well Moore thanked the people who are telling others not to see it
because
Post by David Kotschessa
Post by Reza Ganjavi (www.rezamusic.com)
apparently it is making more people see it :-)
The ones that should see it most probably won't...
I can't help noticing that no one in this thread has actually discussed the
content of the review. I wouldn't mind hearing from those who have seen
the movie, and wish to talk about it. What do you think of the alleged
inaccuraries and inconsistencies Hitchens mentions in his review? For
instance, what did you think of Hitchen's charge that in the movie "Moore
asserts that Iraq under Saddam had never attacked or killed or even
threatened (his words) any American."? Is this accurate?
I would like to see the movie and shall, but haven't had a chance yet (one
of the minor drawbacks of living in small-town Alberta).
John Sloan
Richard Jernigan
2004-07-02 00:29:43 UTC
Permalink
David Raleigh Arnold <***@cox.net> wrote in message news:<***@cox.net>...
<big snip>
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
People are pretty
stupid. daveA
...so presumably you would not regard yourself as a person? Or perhaps
you meant to say, "Everybody else is pretty stupid, but I'm not"?

RNJ
William Jennings
2004-07-02 00:34:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Jernigan
<big snip>
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
People are pretty
stupid. daveA
...so presumably you would not regard yourself as a person? Or perhaps
you meant to say, "Everybody else is pretty stupid, but I'm not"?
Do the math:

Bill Clinton is getting $12 million for his memoirs.

Hillary got $8 million for hers.

That's $20 million for memories from two people, who for eight years,
repeatedly testified, under oath, that they couldn't remember anything.

IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY, OR WHAT?
Richard Jernigan
2004-07-02 07:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Yes it is a great country, one which amply rewards originality in
entertainment. Which is the better headline, this one from a novel
about the National Enquirer:

"Dwarf Rapes Nun, Escapes in UFO!"

or this one:

"Right-wing Conspiracy Forces Prez to Get Blowjob in Oval Office!"

Or how about this one from Bob Schieffer of CBS News, the evening
after Clinton's TV prayer breakfast mea culpa:

Schieffer:"I'm from the South. I've been to those revival meetings
where people come down to the front at the end and publicly rededicate
their lives. I've seen it many times. But none of 'em ever said
they'd mount a strong legal defense..."

You gotta admit, whatever else you may think of him, our ex-Prez is
right up there with the greatest entertainers of my lifetime.

He's funnier than Nixon's Ambassador to England who gave the Queen a
televised tour of the Embassy, bragging about the antiques.

Though his showboating style is quite different, Clinton ranks right
up there with Nixon himself, the greatest deadpan humorist of the 20th
Century. $12 million is chicken feed for a talent like Clinton.


RNJ
Post by William Jennings
Post by Richard Jernigan
<big snip>
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
People are pretty
stupid. daveA
...so presumably you would not regard yourself as a person? Or perhaps
you meant to say, "Everybody else is pretty stupid, but I'm not"?
Bill Clinton is getting $12 million for his memoirs.
Hillary got $8 million for hers.
That's $20 million for memories from two people, who for eight years,
repeatedly testified, under oath, that they couldn't remember anything.
IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY, OR WHAT?
William Jennings
2004-07-02 08:28:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Jernigan
Yes it is a great country, one which amply rewards originality in
entertainment. Which is the better headline, this one from a novel
"Dwarf Rapes Nun, Escapes in UFO!"
You got something against dwarves?

Che'
Richard Jernigan
2004-07-02 23:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
You got something against dwarves?
Che'
Sorry. Didn't mean it personally.

RNJ
William Jennings
2004-07-03 05:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Jernigan
Post by William Jennings
You got something against dwarves?
Che'
Sorry. Didn't mean it personally.
RNJ
I know. The complete Abel Carlevaro information you are seeking is here:

"Escuela de la Guitarra. Exposición de la Teoría Instrumental" a 147
page text book and the 4 Cuadernos (Ex. Notebooks)

The Cuaderno's are almost useless with the: "Escuela de la Guitarra.
Exposicion de la Teoría Instrumental" (Exposition of Instrumental
Theory)

Cuaderno No.1 Escalas diatonicas (Scales)
Cuaderno No.2 Tecnica de la mano derecha (Right hand)
Cuaderno No.3 Tecnica de la mano izquierda (First book of the left
hand)
Cuaderno No.4 Tecnica de la mano izquierda (2nd. book)

Che'
Richard Jernigan
2004-07-04 22:47:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
"Escuela de la Guitarra. Exposición de la Teoría Instrumental" a 147
page text book and the 4 Cuadernos (Ex. Notebooks)
The Cuaderno's are almost useless with the: "Escuela de la Guitarra.
Exposicion de la Teoría Instrumental" (Exposition of Instrumental
Theory)
Cuaderno No.1 Escalas diatonicas (Scales)
Cuaderno No.2 Tecnica de la mano derecha (Right hand)
Cuaderno No.3 Tecnica de la mano izquierda (First book of the left
hand)
Cuaderno No.4 Tecnica de la mano izquierda (2nd. book)
Che'
Thanks anyway, but what I was looking for was the 'Escuela..' in
Spanish (published by Editorial Barry, Buenos Aires) conveniently
available on the net. All I've found is the Boosey and Hawkes English
translation.

RNJ

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