Discussion:
lute scores in notation _not_ tab
(too old to reply)
Edward Bridge
2004-10-02 14:25:26 UTC
Permalink
I enjoy the First and Second books of J.D. (nadal) and would like to read
the original song in notations, if that makes sense.
Are there some good books with John Dowland , Alonso Mudarra and others that
have the lute scores in notation _not_ tab? I spent some time playing with
seven and eight string guitars with my rock students and I'm having lot's
of fun. Now I would like to read some lute scores in notation, I also
rather drink sheep piss than try to read tab.

Are there some composers that wrote for lute in notations instead of t-a-b
(he he)

Most , no _all _ of you know by reading RMCG I have problems with numbers &
letters and things are getting worst for some reason but thank god _not_
shapes. I read scores better then ever so that's good.


Thank you
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
Tyl Ulenspiegl
2004-10-02 15:25:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Bridge
I enjoy the First and Second books of J.D. (nadal) and would like to read
the original song in notations, if that makes sense.
Are there some good books with John Dowland , Alonso Mudarra and others that
have the lute scores in notation _not_ tab? I spent some time playing with
seven and eight string guitars with my rock students and I'm having lot's
of fun. Now I would like to read some lute scores in notation, I also
rather drink sheep piss than try to read tab.
If you really think there is that much difference between the 2: you are
DEEPLY mistaken. A real musician should be able to read both.
Post by Edward Bridge
Are there some composers that wrote for lute in notations instead of t-a-b
(he he)
NO. (aside basso continuo (not instrument-specific anyway))
Post by Edward Bridge
Most , no _all _ of you know by reading RMCG I have problems with numbers &
letters and things are getting worst for some reason but thank god _not_
shapes. I read scores better then ever so that's good.
Broaden your horizons a bit.
RT
______________
Roman M. Turovsky
http://polyhymnion.org/swv
Richard Yates
2004-10-02 15:50:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tyl Ulenspiegl
I also would rather drink sheep piss than try to read tab. <<
If you really think there is that much difference between the 2: you are
DEEPLY mistaken. RT
Are you speaking from personal experience, RT?

Richard Yates
Tyl Ulenspiegl
2004-10-02 17:56:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Yates
Post by Tyl Ulenspiegl
I also would rather drink sheep piss than try to read tab. <<
If you really think there is that much difference between the 2: you are
DEEPLY mistaken. RT
Are you speaking from personal experience, RT?
Richard Yates
Yes. Both are equally far removed from music.
RT
Larry Deack
2004-10-02 18:50:36 UTC
Permalink
"Tyl Ulenspiegl"
Post by Tyl Ulenspiegl
Yes. Both are equally far removed from music.
While I tend to agree with the idea of how music codes are all at some
distance from the actual music there is certainly some difference in what
they do encode. If you wrote a translation program then I would say that
most of what older TAB systems encode can be encoded using modern notation
but the reverse is not true. Modern hybrid TAB systems like the one Richard
Yates uses can encode about the same amount of information for both
translation directions if done by someone with Richard's skills.

If either system is used to create a sound file it becomes very apparent
that the music does not contain enough information to write a program that
can play it musically without using a lot of assumptions. I believe Richard
uses several steps to make his MIDI sound fonts files so musical sounding as
compared to the rigid form of most MIDI renderings of graphic files formats.
Tyl Ulenspiegl
2004-10-02 20:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
"Tyl Ulenspiegl"
Post by Tyl Ulenspiegl
Yes. Both are equally far removed from music.
While I tend to agree with the idea of how music codes are all at some
distance from the actual music there is certainly some difference in what
they do encode.
That's the root of a problem, often.
Post by Larry Deack
If you wrote a translation program then I would say that
most of what older TAB systems encode can be encoded using modern notation
but the reverse is not true. Modern hybrid TAB systems like the one Richard
Yates uses can encode about the same amount of information for both
translation directions if done by someone with Richard's skills.
I do not disagree with tech. aspects of this, but the premise is wrong.
Sound file is not the same as the music that has passed through the players
hands.
Post by Larry Deack
If either system is used to create a sound file it becomes very apparent
that the music does not contain enough information to write a program that
can play it musically without using a lot of assumptions. I believe Richard
uses several steps to make his MIDI sound fonts files so musical sounding as
compared to the rigid form of most MIDI renderings of graphic files formats.
Period lute music contains enough information to produce adequate sound
files from tabulature, especially with Timidity or similar software.
I would apply this for, say, Delpriora's stuff, but baroque material makes a
lot sense with the minimum of means, and quick decay of plucked sound is not
hurting from this.
RT
William D Clinger
2004-10-02 23:09:50 UTC
Permalink
Concerning the difference between standard notation and
Post by Tyl Ulenspiegl
Post by Richard Yates
Post by Tyl Ulenspiegl
If you really think there is that much difference between the 2: you are
DEEPLY mistaken. RT
Are you speaking from personal experience, RT?
Richard Yates
Yes. Both are equally far removed from music.
RT
Nebraska and Myanmar are equally far removed from Scotland,
but it would be a mistake to conclude therefrom that Nebraska
and Myanmar are interchangeable.

Will
Richard Yates
2004-10-03 01:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by William D Clinger
Concerning the difference between standard notation and
Will, I think you are misunderstanding RT's comparison. He was not comparing
Post by William D Clinger
I also would rather drink sheep piss than try to read tab. <<
If you really think there is that much difference between the 2: you are
DEEPLY mistaken. RT
RY
William D Clinger
2004-10-03 05:50:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Yates
Will, I think you are misunderstanding RT's comparison. He was not comparing
Post by Tyl Ulenspiegl
I also would rather drink sheep piss than try to read tab. <<
If you really think there is that much difference between the 2: you are
DEEPLY mistaken. RT
RY
Ah, my mistake. Thank you for correcting me.

Will
Tyl Ulenspiegl
2004-10-03 04:11:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by William D Clinger
Concerning the difference between standard notation and
Post by Tyl Ulenspiegl
Post by Richard Yates
Post by Tyl Ulenspiegl
If you really think there is that much difference between the 2: you are
DEEPLY mistaken. RT
Are you speaking from personal experience, RT?
Richard Yates
Yes. Both are equally far removed from music.
RT
Nebraska and Myanmar are equally far removed from Scotland,
but it would be a mistake to conclude therefrom that Nebraska
and Myanmar are interchangeable.
Will
Too bad... Myanmar has better food.
RT
Steven Bornfeld
2004-10-03 21:01:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by William D Clinger
Concerning the difference between standard notation and
Post by Tyl Ulenspiegl
Post by Richard Yates
Post by Tyl Ulenspiegl
If you really think there is that much difference between the 2: you are
DEEPLY mistaken. RT
Are you speaking from personal experience, RT?
Richard Yates
Yes. Both are equally far removed from music.
RT
Nebraska and Myanmar are equally far removed from Scotland,
but it would be a mistake to conclude therefrom that Nebraska
and Myanmar are interchangeable.
Will
"It may be Myanmar to you, but it'll always be Burma to me!"
J. Peterman
Edward Bridge
2004-10-02 20:43:27 UTC
Permalink
"Tyl Ulenspiegl" <***@verizon.net> wrote in message news:BD84450F.3000F%***@verizon.net...
.
Post by Tyl Ulenspiegl
If you really think there is that much difference between the 2: you are
DEEPLY mistaken. A real musician should be able to read both.
Tab is hard on me. I don't feel there's anything wrong with tab. In fact I
think it's also very pretty to look at. as I sure it is to play.
Peace
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
Tyl Ulenspiegl
2004-10-02 21:20:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Bridge
Post by Tyl Ulenspiegl
If you really think there is that much difference between the 2: you are
DEEPLY mistaken. A real musician should be able to read both.
Tab is hard on me. I don't feel there's anything wrong with tab. In fact I
think it's also very pretty to look at. as I sure it is to play.
Peace
Ed Bridge
Why not give a solid try for a, say, week? Just to get a taste of how
renaissance lute music is different in layout from its CG reinterpretation.
RT

________________
http://polyhymnion.org
Matanya Ophee
2004-10-02 16:35:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Bridge
I enjoy the First and Second books of J.D. (nadal) and would like to read
the original song in notations, if that makes sense.
Are there some good books with John Dowland , Alonso Mudarra and others that
have the lute scores in notation _not_ tab? I spent some time playing with
seven and eight string guitars with my rock students and I'm having lot's
of fun. Now I would like to read some lute scores in notation, I also
rather drink sheep piss than try to read tab.
Some ar available here:

http://www.orphee.com/catalog.HTM#lute
Post by Edward Bridge
Are there some composers that wrote for lute in notations instead of t-a-b
(he he)
Yes, there are. Mostly 20th century composers who could not be
bothered with an instrument-specific system of notation, which makes
their music invisible to normal musicians.


Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/
Tyl Ulenspiegl
2004-10-02 18:12:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee
Post by Edward Bridge
Are there some composers that wrote for lute in notations instead of t-a-b
(he he)
Yes, there are. Mostly 20th century composers who could not be
bothered with an instrument-specific system of notation, which makes
their music invisible to normal musicians.
Instrument specific notation precludes music that is inaudible (or
unlistenable) to music lovers.

To Ed:
Unlike CG, Lute by its acoustical nature does not rely on effect to produce
affect. So minimal notation serves it well. A common mistake is to confuse
ANY notation with music. Tabulature is sufficient if one has musical sense.
If one has none: notation is of no help.
RT
Tyl Ulenspiegl
2004-10-02 20:44:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matanya Ophee