Discussion:
C major triads
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Slogoin
2010-08-24 02:31:31 UTC
Permalink
Following my wildly popular (on topic) posts on triads here are the
triads for the C major scale.

http://www.larrydeack.com/cmajtriads.svg

These patterns include open notes but can easily be extended up
each string set to learn the entire neck crossing over to the next
string set at any point. Since the major and minor alternating
patterns are easy to learn on a single string set it is only the
diminished chords that tend to be where the pattern is confusing -
hence the previous post on dim to maj patterns.
m***@gmail.com
2010-08-24 02:41:06 UTC
Permalink
   Following my wildly popular (on topic) posts on triads here are the
triads for the C major scale.
http://www.larrydeack.com/cmajtriads.svg
   These patterns include open notes but can easily be extended up
each string set to learn the entire neck crossing over to the next
string set at any point. Since the major and minor alternating
patterns are easy to learn on a single string set it is only the
diminished chords that tend to be where the pattern is confusing -
hence the previous post on dim to maj pattern
NNUTS. Thanks for the reminder that it is time for me to put Richard
Pick's School of Guitar back into print, where all of this, not only
in C major, but in all 24 keys and their minor relatives are treated
in great detail.

MO.
Slogoin
2010-08-24 03:00:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
NNUTS.
Of course it's NNUTS and trivial on piano in the key of C. There are
many web sites (not classical) that cover this material in a number of
different ways. One way is to look at the forms as they move across
string sets so the common first position E major form becomes A minor
then augmented.

I also teach the standard first position chords and CAGED which are
also NNUTS. Much of teaching fretboard theory is NNUTS but each seems
to have slightly different twists to how the material is presented.
Post by m***@gmail.com
Thanks for the reminder that it is time for me to put Richard
Pick's School of Guitar back into print, where all of this, not only
in C major, but in all 24 keys and their minor relatives are treated
in great detail.
Other than reading standard notation it's trivial (unlike piano) to
shift the patterns for other keys.

Does Pick present these patterns in standard notation? I would love
to get Pick's book when you have it published again. You were lucky to
study with such a fine musician.
Lee
2010-08-24 05:23:08 UTC
Permalink
   Does Pick present these patterns in standard notation? I would love
to get Pick's book when you have it published again. You were lucky to
study with such a fine musician.
I have that collection. It's pretty good stuff covering the
fingerboard in a very comprehensive way. LEE
Lee
2010-08-24 05:27:07 UTC
Permalink
What is "NNUTS"? Have I missed something?
Slogoin
2010-08-24 06:18:17 UTC
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Post by Lee
What is "NNUTS"? Have I missed something?
http://www.acronymattic.com/NNUTS.html

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+1%3A9&version=NIV
catpandaddy
2010-08-24 13:40:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee
What is "NNUTS"? Have I missed something?
Vince from the "shamwow" ads did a "slap-chop" commercial. He says "You're
gonna love my NNUTS" in that one.
Slogoin
2010-08-24 14:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by catpandaddy
Vince from the "shamwow" ads did a "slap-chop" commercial.
 He says "You're gonna love my NNUTS" in that one.
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80511267/
daveA
2010-08-24 16:30:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
   Following my wildly popular (on topic) posts on triads here are the
triads for the C major scale.
http://www.larrydeack.com/cmajtriads.svg
   These patterns include open notes but can easily be extended up
each string set to learn the entire neck crossing over to the next
string set at any point. Since the major and minor alternating
patterns are easy to learn on a single string set it is only the
diminished chords that tend to be where the pattern is confusing -
hence the previous post on dim to maj pattern
NNUTS. Thanks for the reminder that it is time for me to put Richard
Pick's School of Guitar back into print, where all of this, not only
in C major, but in all 24 keys and their minor relatives are treated
in great detail.
MO.
Neither his nor Pick's nor Van Eps' are voiced without parallel
fifths, so I fail
to see the utility in practicing either. There are too many slides
in both, so they beat up the fingers without exercising them
adequately, and there is little or no variation in the fingering of
the individual triads.

My triad exercises in DGT have no slides except between bouts,
and the shifts are greater than those few afforded in scales. As
they stand, they are not "incorrect" in any sense, and they
exercise the LH far more while beating up the finger ends less.
Regards, daveA
Slogoin
2010-08-24 16:38:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by daveA
My triad exercises in DGT have no slides except between bouts,
and the shifts are greater than those few afforded in scales. As
they stand, they are not "incorrect" in any sense, and they
exercise the LH far more while beating up the finger ends less.
Regards, daveA
So your triads exercises are all about technique and not about
learning how chords work on the fretboard?
daveA
2010-08-24 17:20:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by daveA
My triad exercises in DGT have no slides except between bouts,
and the shifts are greater than those few afforded in scales. As
they stand, they are not "incorrect" in any sense, and they
exercise the LH far more while beating up the finger ends less.
Regards, daveA
  So your triads exercises are all about technique and not about
learning how chords work on the fretboard?
Yes, but mine teach more about how chords "work on the fretboard"
than indifferently (at best) harmonized scales. Regards, daveA
Lutemann
2010-08-24 18:36:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
   Following my wildly popular (on topic) posts on triads here are the
triads for the C major scale.
http://www.larrydeack.com/cmajtriads.svg
   These patterns include open notes but can easily be extended up
each string set to learn the entire neck crossing over to the next
string set at any point. Since the major and minor alternating
patterns are easy to learn on a single string set it is only the
diminished chords that tend to be where the pattern is confusing -
hence the previous post on dim to maj pattern
NNUTS. Thanks for the reminder that it is time for me to put Richard
Pick's School of Guitar back into print, where all of this, not only
in C major, but in all 24 keys and their minor relatives are treated
in great detail.
MO.
Neither his nor Pick's nor Van Eps'  are voiced without parallel
fifths, so I fail
to see the utility in practicing either. There are too many slides
in both, so they beat up the fingers without exercising them
adequately, and there is little or no variation in the fingering of
the individual triads.
My triad exercises in DGT have no slides except between bouts,
and the shifts are greater than those few afforded in scales. As
they stand, they are not "incorrect" in any sense, and they
exercise the LH far more while beating up the finger ends less.
Regards, daveA
What's wrong with parallel 5ths?
daveA
2010-08-25 00:49:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lutemann
Post by m***@gmail.com
   Following my wildly popular (on topic) posts on triads here are the
triads for the C major scale.
http://www.larrydeack.com/cmajtriads.svg
   These patterns include open notes but can easily be extended up
each string set to learn the entire neck crossing over to the next
string set at any point. Since the major and minor alternating
patterns are easy to learn on a single string set it is only the
diminished chords that tend to be where the pattern is confusing -
hence the previous post on dim to maj pattern
NNUTS. Thanks for the reminder that it is time for me to put Richard
Pick's School of Guitar back into print, where all of this, not only
in C major, but in all 24 keys and their minor relatives are treated
in great detail.
MO.
Neither his nor Pick's nor Van Eps'  are voiced without parallel
fifths, so I fail
to see the utility in practicing either. There are too many slides
in both, so they beat up the fingers without exercising them
adequately, and there is little or no variation in the fingering of
the individual triads.
My triad exercises in DGT have no slides except between bouts,
and the shifts are greater than those few afforded in scales. As
they stand, they are not "incorrect" in any sense, and they
exercise the LH far more while beating up the finger ends less.
Regards, daveA
What's wrong with parallel 5ths?
In general, nothing. But a harmonized scale is far from general.

They make the line seem heavy by making two of the parts
lock up. Training in classical harmony and counterpoint
makes one more perceptive of such effects, and that
heightened perceptiveness is necessary to decent
composition IMO. Pick and Van Eps were not qualified to write
books about harmony IMO. Regards, daveA
Slogoin
2010-08-25 01:09:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by daveA
Pick and Van Eps were not qualified to write
books about harmony IMO.  Regards, daveA
LOL! Your posts to the GFA forum about Pick were just as funny as
your posts to RMCG.

Nobody else knows anything and your method is the one and only true
path.
daveA
2010-08-25 14:28:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by daveA
Pick and Van Eps were not qualified to write
books about harmony IMO.  Regards, daveA
  LOL! Your posts to the GFA forum about Pick were just as funny as
your posts to RMCG.
  Nobody else knows anything and your method is the one and only true
path.
Everyone who has ever studied common practice harmony knows
more about harmony than Pick or Van Eps did. That is a truly
enormous number of people. Pick should have known that teaching
chords by stacking thirds is a terrible idea because it leads to
arithmetic where none should be needed. Regards, daveA
Slogoin
2010-08-25 14:43:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by daveA
Everyone who has ever studied common practice harmony knows
more about harmony than Pick or Van Eps did.
So you are saying they didn't know CC harmony? I took classes in CC
theory but I guess I must have missed the part about how it was the
law. I also teach triads on piano in C major.
Post by daveA
That is a truly enormous number of people.
Pick should have known that teaching
chords by stacking thirds is a terrible idea because it leads to
arithmetic where none should be needed. Regards, daveA
I looked over your triads. I also have my students do triad inversion
up string sets but I don't dictate fingerings and I concentrate in C
major before moving to other keys. I don't see the problem. What
arithmetic are you talking about?
daveA
2010-08-25 17:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by daveA
Everyone who has ever studied common practice harmony knows
more about harmony than Pick or Van Eps did.
  So you are saying they didn't know CC harmony? I took classes in CC
theory but I guess I must have missed the part about how it was the
law. I also teach triads on piano in C major.
Post by daveA
That is a truly enormous number of people.
Pick should have known that teaching
chords by stacking thirds is a terrible idea because it leads to
arithmetic where none should be needed. Regards, daveA
 I looked over your triads. I also have my students do triad inversion
up string sets but I don't dictate fingerings and I concentrate in C
major before moving to other keys. I don't see the problem. What
arithmetic are you talking about?
The notion that a major triad consists in a major 3rd + a minor 3rd
rather than a major 3rd and a perfect 5th. That's what's in his
"fingerboard harmony" and it is *not good*. Regards, daveA
Slogoin
2010-08-25 18:49:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by daveA
The notion that a major triad consists in a major 3rd + a minor 3rd
rather than a major 3rd and a perfect 5th. That's what's in his
"fingerboard harmony" and it is *not good*. Regards, daveA
Interesting. Both you and Steve said the same thing. In the version
of dim->maj I added the 5ths and 6ths but I still teach both.

http://www.larrydeack.com/dim-%3Em