Discussion:
11-string recuerdos- where on the bell curve?
(too old to reply)
JonLorPro
2008-04-30 16:55:54 UTC
Permalink
I was both reticent to exhibit the temerity of posting this in the
Wang Yameng tremolo discussion, and loath to submit it to the recent
"worst recuerdos" thread. I'll let the group decide in which company
it belongs. The original (non- HiFi) VHS has a lot of hiss on it
which I tried to mollify, but someone with real expertise in this area
could probably do better. Actual hiss removal programs I've tried made
it sound weird; any engineering suggestions would be welcome.


l***@deack.net
2008-04-30 17:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by JonLorPro
I was both reticent to exhibit the temerity of posting this in the
Wang Yameng tremolo discussion, and loath to submit it to the recent
"worst recuerdos" thread.  I'll let the group decide in which company
it belongs.  The original (non- HiFi) VHS has a lot of hiss on it
which I tried to mollify, but someone with real expertise in this area
could probably do better. Actual hiss removal programs I've tried made
it sound weird; any engineering suggestions would be welcome.
http://youtu.be/O0PCn13xCug
Ha ha, I was jsut litening to this after you last post. First one I
picked! How weird is that.

Excellent, maestro!
steve ganz
2008-05-01 03:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by JonLorPro
I was both reticent to exhibit the temerity of posting this in the
Wang Yameng tremolo discussion, and loath to submit it to the recent
"worst recuerdos" thread. I'll let the group decide in which company
it belongs. The original (non- HiFi) VHS has a lot of hiss on it
which I tried to mollify, but someone with real expertise in this area
could probably do better. Actual hiss removal programs I've tried made
it sound weird; any engineering suggestions would be welcome.
http://youtu.be/O0PCn13xCug
It's a nice rendition.
I particularly liked the last note.
--
Steve G
h***@verizon.net
2008-05-01 03:58:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by JonLorPro
I was both reticent to exhibit the temerity of posting this in the
Wang Yameng tremolo discussion, and loath to submit it to the recent
"worst recuerdos" thread.  I'll let the group decide in which company
it belongs.  The original (non- HiFi) VHS has a lot of hiss on it
which I tried to mollify, but someone with real expertise in this area
could probably do better. Actual hiss removal programs I've tried made
it sound weird; any engineering suggestions would be welcome.
http://youtu.be/O0PCn13xCug
Nice! I like the way you used the low notes to fill out the texture!
And great stability in the right hand to reach up there and grab those
low basses while maintaining a smooth, solid tremolo.

I enjoyed this video and for youtube standards, not that noisy.

Seth
Tashi
2008-05-01 06:56:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by JonLorPro
I was both reticent to exhibit the temerity of posting this in the
Wang Yameng tremolo discussion, and loath to submit it to the recent
"worst recuerdos" thread.  I'll let the group decide in which company
it belongs.  The original (non- HiFi) VHS has a lot of hiss on it
which I tried to mollify, but someone with real expertise in this area
could probably do better. Actual hiss removal programs I've tried made
it sound weird; any engineering suggestions would be welcome.
http://youtu.be/O0PCn13xCug
Who is that playing?
MT
h***@verizon.net
2008-05-01 15:16:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Post by JonLorPro
I was both reticent to exhibit the temerity of posting this in the
Wang Yameng tremolo discussion, and loath to submit it to the recent
"worst recuerdos" thread. I'll let the group decide in which company
it belongs. The original (non- HiFi) VHS has a lot of hiss on it
which I tried to mollify, but someone with real expertise in this area
could probably do better. Actual hiss removal programs I've tried made
it sound weird; any engineering suggestions would be welcome.
http://youtu.be/O0PCn13xCug
Who is that playing?
MT
The guitarist is Mr. JonLorPro himself, John Marsh Bigelow.

Check out his website:

www.communityartsadvocates.org/ApolloWeb Site/index.htm

Seth
Tashi
2008-05-01 16:07:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@verizon.net
Post by Tashi
Post by JonLorPro
I was both reticent to exhibit the temerity of posting this in the
Wang Yameng tremolo discussion, and loath to submit it to the recent
"worst recuerdos" thread.  I'll let the group decide in which company
it belongs.  The original (non- HiFi) VHS has a lot of hiss on it
which I tried to mollify, but someone with real expertise in this area
could probably do better. Actual hiss removal programs I've tried made
it sound weird; any engineering suggestions would be welcome.
http://youtu.be/O0PCn13xCug
Who is that playing?
MT
The guitarist is Mr. JonLorPro himself, John Marsh Bigelow.
www.communityartsadvocates.org/ApolloWebSite/index.htm
Seth
I that case, let me congradulate John, your quite a good player!
Excellent! and very nice guitar! I have a soft spot for guitars with
lots of strings.
MT
JonLorPro
2008-05-02 17:46:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Post by h***@verizon.net
Post by Tashi
Post by JonLorPro
I was both reticent to exhibit the temerity of posting this in the
Wang Yameng tremolo discussion, and loath to submit it to the recent
"worst recuerdos" thread. �I'll let the group decide in which company
it belongs. �The original (non- HiFi) VHS has a lot of hiss on it
which I tried to mollify, but someone with real expertise in this area
could probably do better. Actual hiss removal programs I've tried made
it sound weird; any engineering suggestions would be welcome.
http://youtu.be/O0PCn13xCug
Who is that playing?
MT
The guitarist is Mr. JonLorPro himself, John Marsh Bigelow.
www.communityartsadvocates.org/ApolloWebSite/index.htm
Seth
I that case, let me congradulate John, your quite a good player!
Excellent! and very nice guitar! �I have a soft spot for guitars with
lots of strings.
MT
Yes, indeedy, 'tis I- nails and all. ;- D
This was taped long enough ago so that its now becoming a bit of self-
delusion that this is how I imagine myself to look.
The website is a project that has been languishing- in a raw state,
needs lots of editing- but please do check it out. The link that Seth
kindly provided doesn't include the "index.htm" at the end when you
click on it, which is becessary. There is also a peculiar protocol
whereby the "A", ""W" and "S" in "ApolloWebSite" all must be
capitalized. I am most grateful to the guy whose website this
actually is, who is helping us out with the design and is hosting the
page for us for now (Stephen Baird, be sure to check the rest of his
site if you are at all interested in or concerned about street
performance and first amendment issues- and also if you like wild bird
photography, another one of his interests!) but I am anxious to get
around to getting the site ready for prime time and putting it up for
easier accessibility at BigSalt.com.
I thank you for your comments! and everyone else's, too, Larry,
Seth, the Steves Perry and Ganz, Andresito, and others.
The eleven-string I used in that video is one of two that I have,
this one is a Stanul. He had contrived a system whereby when making a
guitar he was able very easily to put a top on temporarily and take it
off again, so that in between fiddlings around with bracing,
scrapings, etc.it could be strung up and played in order to appreciate
quickly the results of such experimentation. The top we settled on is
actually the third one we tried, and it has very little bracing
inside.
I'd love to try one of yours someday; they sound excellent in your
videos (and well played, too!), but this will have to wait until my
high risk- high yield investment portfolio ( i.e., the state lottery)
pays off.
Re: the sound on videos- I mentioned having tried hiss removal
programs doing weird things; I recall in some of your first videos on
YouTube hearing a few odd high-end artifacts of the sort that I was
getting a lot of when I tried to clean this one and others up, but
your later YouTubes don't have this problem- were you trying some
similar program which you changed or tweaked somehow for better
results? How are you doing your recordings?
-J
Tashi
2008-05-03 03:00:23 UTC
Permalink
  I thank you for your comments! and everyone else's, too, Larry,
Seth, the Steves Perry and Ganz, Andresito, and others.
  The eleven-string I used in that video is one of two that I have,
this one is a Stanul. He had contrived a system whereby when making a
guitar he was able very easily to put a top on temporarily and take it
off again, so that in between fiddlings around with bracing,
scrapings, etc.it could be strung up and played in order to appreciate
quickly the results of such experimentation.  The top we settled on is
actually the third one we tried, and it has very little bracing
inside.
Again John excellent playing! Interesting to hear about the minimal
bracing on your 11 string. I'm also convenced this is the way to go
myself. If you look at ren lutes that were converted over to 13
string Baroque lutes they didn't add anymore bracing inside. I think
just the additional width of the bridge is enough to compensate for
the extra tension.

Are those tuners real friction pegs or are they those "Pegheds"?
  I'd love to try one of yours someday; they sound excellent in your
videos (and well played, too!), but this will have to wait until my
high risk- high yield investment portfolio ( i.e., the state lottery)
pays off.
Thanks but why don't you make a 13 string?
  Re: the sound on videos- I mentioned having tried hiss removal
programs doing weird things; I recall in some of your first videos on
YouTube hearing a few odd high-end artifacts of the sort that I was
getting a lot of when I tried to clean this one and others up, but
your later YouTubes don't have this problem- were you trying some
similar program which you changed or tweaked somehow for better
results?   How are you doing your recordings?
  -J
On the first recordings of the Weiss and Pachelbel I really didn't
understand the audio settings. I had two preamps feeding into the
camera. My recording freind said it condensed the signal too much.
The other ones I just used the on borad mic and didn't add any thing
to it.

I now have Final Cut pro II to edited the video as well as the
audio. The audio as Soundtrack Pro which can edited the audio with
reverb, hiss removel and all that stuff. I'm anxiuos to do another
video using this.

On my website on the home page the Weiss was recorded direct to disc
through a blue tube preamp on an Akai DR4 with 20 dollar mics.

MT
JonLorPro
2008-05-12 22:28:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Are those tuners real friction pegs or are they those "Pegheds"?
I'm not sure what you mean by "those 'Pegheads' ". They're not regular
friction pegs, though- they are violin pegs that come in two parts-
the string wound portion and the seperate portion that you grab in
order to turn it, tighten together by means of a screw onto a bushing
that is mounted in the hole through the headstock. This means that I
at least don't have to fuss around with jamming them in tightly and
then defeating that jammed in-ness every time I want to tune, but it
is still a 1:1 tuning ratio. This denies me some niceties like the
ability to reach up quickly in mid-flight to adjust the pitch of a
string; perhaps you noticed that availment of that possibility could
have been useful to me in the Recuerdos. When I had the Velasquez
made, I had some straight through planetary pegs that I wanted put in
at least for the four highest strings that would have given me a 4:1
tuning ratio- but he made the headstock too thick to accomodate them.
Perhaps he didn't like it that they were made for banjo, and so maybe
nobbled implementation of my design ( I don't mean that seriously)- as
it was, he didn't even like the non-traditionality of the "bushing"
violin pegs- he thought I should have gone with the conventional
friction pegs- but he did put them in for me, and took the trouble to
make some necessary modifications to them, in spite of this.
Post by Tashi
Post by JonLorPro
I'd love to try one of yours someday; they sound excellent in your
videos (and well played, too!), but this will have to wait until my
high risk- high yield investment portfolio ( i.e., the state lottery)
pays off.
Thanks but why don't you make a 13 string?
If and when that aforementioned pay-off occurs, maybe I will, to
devote to the Weiss tuning you espouse. But, ultimately, though one
grows into whatever are the newly appended dimensions one may have
added, and always winds up bumping against the confines of what were
formerly the expanded parameters of a new found freedom at some
point, there are diminishing returns and greater consequences of
burden for the addition of yet still more. Where the line is between
enough and too much is hard to determine, so in the end one makes an
arbitrary decision and commits to it.
Post by Tashi
Post by JonLorPro
I recall in some of your first videos on
YouTube hearing a few odd high-end artifacts of the sort that I was
getting a lot of when I tried to clean this one and others up, but
your later YouTubes don't have this problem- were you trying some
similar program which you changed or tweaked somehow for better
results? How are you doing your recordings?
On the first recordings...I had two preamps feeding into the
camera. My recording freind said it condensed the signal too much.
Did you perhaps mean "compressed" rather than "condensed"? I'll have
to see if there was a compression algorithm in the hiss removal
program I tried that was doing this that could be adjusted.
Post by Tashi
I now have Final Cut pro II to edited the video as well as the
audio. The audio as Soundtrack Pro which can edited the audio with
reverb, hiss removel and all that stuff. I'm anxiuos to do another
video using this.
I look forward to hearing it. Maybe your hiss removal is higher end
than what I've got.
Post by Tashi
On my website on the home page the Weiss was recorded direct to disc
through a blue tube preamp on an Akai DR4 with 20 dollar mics.
I'll check 'em out.

-J
l***@deack.net
2008-05-12 22:44:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by JonLorPro
I'm not sure what you mean by "those 'Pegheads' ". They're not regular
friction pegs, though- they are violin pegs that come in two parts-
the string wound portion and the seperate portion that you grab in
order to turn it, tighten together by means of a screw onto a bushing
that is mounted in the hole through the headstock.  This means that I
at least don't have to fuss around with jamming them in tightly and
then defeating that jammed in-ness every time I want to tune, but it
is still a 1:1 tuning ratio.
Like this?

http://www.pegheds.com/
JonLorPro
2008-05-12 23:51:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@deack.net
Post by JonLorPro
I'm not sure what you mean by "those 'Pegheads' ". They're not regular
friction pegs, though- they are violin pegs that come in two parts-
the string wound portion and the seperate portion that you grab in
order to turn it, tighten together by means of a screw onto a bushing
that is mounted in the hole through the headstock. �This means that I
at least don't have to fuss around with jamming them in tightly and
then defeating that jammed in-ness every time I want to tune, but it
is still a 1:1 tuning ratio.
Like this?
http://www.pegheds.com/
No, those are more sophisticated than what I've got- mine are a direct
shaft connection that only provides for a 1:1 turning ratio; the ones
at this link offer the 4:1 that the banjo pegs I never got to use
would have given me- and they look a lot better, too. I'm excited!
Maybe I can get these to put in-- Thanks!
John LaCroix