Discussion:
Bach's Cello Suites
(too old to reply)
Dick Muldoon
2007-10-07 11:32:07 UTC
Permalink
I just spent an insomniac Sunday morning listening first to Goran
Sollscher playing Bach's cello suites, then to Rostropovich (old vinyl)
and Heinrich Schiff playing the same ... As lovely as Sollscher's
playing is, I'm stunned at how rich, how deep, how fluid, and how
utterly appropriate the cello performances are.

Is there some music that *should* not be transcribed for guitar?
Richard Yates
2007-10-07 13:42:09 UTC
Permalink
Yes. Most.
Post by Dick Muldoon
I just spent an insomniac Sunday morning listening first to Goran
Sollscher playing Bach's cello suites, then to Rostropovich (old vinyl)
and Heinrich Schiff playing the same ... As lovely as Sollscher's
playing is, I'm stunned at how rich, how deep, how fluid, and how
utterly appropriate the cello performances are.
Is there some music that *should* not be transcribed for guitar?
John Nguyen
2007-10-07 14:00:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dick Muldoon
I just spent an insomniac Sunday morning listening first to Goran
Sollscher playing Bach's cello suites, then to Rostropovich (old vinyl)
and Heinrich Schiff playing the same ... As lovely as Sollscher's
playing is, I'm stunned at how rich, how deep, how fluid, and how
utterly appropriate the cello performances are.
Is there some music that *should* not be transcribed for guitar?
For any literature, it is best to be read in its native langague. Does
that mean one should not translate Shakespeare's or Voltaire's into
Vietnamese?
Cheers,

John
Raptor
2007-10-07 15:08:22 UTC
Permalink
A man once wrote, "He who translates, lies" which of course is just
another way of saying, perhaps with some hyperbole, that a tranlation
always involves loss. But transcriptions are perhaps another matter.
Everyone reading this blog knows a great deal of baroque instrumental
literature was fungible - if I may stretch the meaning of that term.
Bach is only one of many whose work appears across woodwinds, keyboard
and strings.

I think what's being commented upon here is less a criticism of the
guitar's limitations than an expression of admiration for the lovely
richness of the cello, which I'll confess is one of my favorite
instruments. Tashi doesn't agree with me, but I don't think Bach's
cello suites usuallly sound as good on the guitar as they do upon
their native instrument. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy hearing
them played on the guitar. I do. A whole lot. The suites'
fundamental beauty translates well between instruments. But the
dynamic range and sensitivity which the cello possesses exceeds even
the most wondrously crafted guitar. At the same time, I'd prefer to
hear Stanley's recording of the first 3 Bach cello suites than Yo Yo
Ma's. Yo Yo gets in the way, in my opinion. The benchmark - I'd say
Pablo Casals' recording (which is available in a CD-set). There we
have as they say, a musical landmark. Sublime.

mark
C***@hotmail.com
2007-10-07 16:42:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Nguyen
Post by Dick Muldoon
I just spent an insomniac Sunday morning listening first to Goran
Sollscher playing Bach's cello suites, then to Rostropovich (old vinyl)
and Heinrich Schiff playing the same ... As lovely as Sollscher's
playing is, I'm stunned at how rich, how deep, how fluid, and how
utterly appropriate the cello performances are.
Is there some music that *should* not be transcribed for guitar?
For any literature, it is best to be read in its native langague. Does
that mean one should not translate Shakespeare's or Voltaire's into
Vietnamese?
Cheers,
John
The Vietnamese can be one of the most difficult ...even for the
Vietnamese. After all, John, who wants their Pho made and served by a
round eye in Kansas? :-) It doesn't mean they shouldn't make it but
there ought to be a law against it! :-)

Btw, I do know why ducks sleep standing on only one leg. :-)

Che'
Andrew Schulman
2007-10-07 16:55:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by C***@hotmail.com
Btw, I do know why ducks sleep standing on only one leg. :-)
Why Ducks Sleep Standing on One Leg

Many people must have wondered why ducks are accustomed to sleep in
the funny way they do - with one leg lifted. The Vietnamese have an
interesting explanation for this.

After Heaven had completed the creation of the world, there were four
ducks who found that they only had one leg each. It was difficult for
them to walk, and sometimes they were unable to find enough food. They
became very morose when they saw how easily other fowls and animals
moved about on two legs.

One day the four unfortunate ducks held a meeting and discussed their
ignoble condition. They had arrived at a point where life on one leg
could no longer be endured, so they decided to lodge a complaint to
Heaven. But they were entirely ignorant of Heaven's location, and they
did not even know how to draft a petition.

One of them suggested that they should turn to the rooster for help.
The others protested that his penmanship was so bad that no one in
Heaven would be able to read the petition. But there was no one else
to whom they could turn, so after having quacked and grumbled for some
time, the four of them went to find the rooster, who was only too
eager to help and readily scratched out the desired petition.

The ducks read the petition and then held another meeting to decide
which one of them should carry it. They way to Heaven was long and
tedious and beset with many pitfalls, so that none of the one-legged
ducks was enthusiastic about undertaking the journey.

The rooster, who was standing some distance away, overheard the lively
discussion. He coughed discreetly, and approaching the group,
delicately asked whether he might be of further service. They were
very pleased and accepted his offer to help.

"Not far from here there is a temple," he suggested, looking wisely
down his beak "and it happens that I am acquainted with the god of the
place. He could convey your petition to Heaven, and I can give you a
letter of introduction to him."

The ducks were loudly grateful whereupon the rooster put on his
spectacles and wrote out a suitably worded letter for them.

The ducks then proceeded to the temple, and as they entered its
precincts, they suddenly heard a loud, imperious voice wanting to know
why the temple's incense burner had eight legs instead of four. The
voice continued by demanding that the four extra legs be removed
immediately.

As the ducks heard this, their hope rose. They did not know what an
incense burner was, but they understood that four of its legs were to
be removed immediately. They hurried into the temple. The god was
still frowning at the incense burner when they entered, and he looked
at them unsmilingly.

"Your lordship," said one duck, who had become the spokesman for the
group, "here is a letter for you from our friend and neighbor, the
rooster and also our petition.l It's about our need of four legs; as
you see we have only one leg each."

The replied that what had been given them at creation was final, and
that their petition would serve no purpose. At these words the four
ducks fell silent. But then one, younger than the others and more
desperate, spoke up and said what was on the minds of all four.

"Your lordship," he stammered, "you spoke just now of removing four
legs from the incense burner..."

The god looked at him wide-eyed for an instant and then burst into
uncontrollable laughter. In the end he agreed to give hte ducks the
four extra legs.

"but mind you," he said, hading them over to the ducks and winking at
the incense burner, "these legs are made of pure gold and are very
precious; guard them carefully."

The ducks were ready to promise anything. they took their legs with
indescribable joy. They bowed and thanked the god. They attached the
extra legs to their bodies and soon they were able to move about like
their fellow creatures. But at night when they went to sleep, they
would pull up the leg given them by the temple god so that no one
could steal it. Other ducks, seeing this, assumed it was the proper
way to sleep and in imitation began to lift one leg before retiriung
for the night. And so the custom has remained to this day.

http://singlegirlwithcat.vox.com/library/posts/tags/ducks/
John Nguyen
2007-10-07 17:43:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by C***@hotmail.com
Post by John Nguyen
Post by Dick Muldoon
I just spent an insomniac Sunday morning listening first to Goran
Sollscher playing Bach's cello suites, then to Rostropovich (old vinyl)
and Heinrich Schiff playing the same ... As lovely as Sollscher's
playing is, I'm stunned at how rich, how deep, how fluid, and how
utterly appropriate the cello performances are.
Is there some music that *should* not be transcribed for guitar?
For any literature, it is best to be read in its native langague. Does
that mean one should not translate Shakespeare's or Voltaire's into
Vietnamese?
Cheers,
John
The Vietnamese can be one of the most difficult ...even for the
Vietnamese. After all, John, who wants their Pho made and served by a
round eye in Kansas? :-) It doesn't mean they shouldn't make it but
there ought to be a law against it! :-)
Btw, I do know why ducks sleep standing on only one leg. :-)
Che'-
I hear ya. But one has to make due with what he got, desn't he? When I
came here, scallion was hard to come by, and you know it's not the
same to cook peppered fish stew without green scallion. So leek was my
subs back them, and with a little of imagination added, it came darn
close. Would I choose leek over scallion now? Not until a snowball
fight in hell!

I agree with you about Pho, though. It's gonna be tough to make the
right broth for it!

Re: duck sleep standing on one leg, Andrew Schumlman put it succintly.

Question for you: Why do male dogs lift hind leg while pissing?

Cheers,

John
Raptor
2007-10-07 17:56:21 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 7, 11:43 am, John Nguyen <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

Question for you: Why do male dogs lift hind leg while pissing?

If you're going to mark territory, it would seem evolution has favored
the genes in dogs which adopt a pissing stance most likely to put
their scent as near the nose height of other dogs as possible. But I
find the posing of this question immediately after a discussion of
Pho, deeply disturbing.

mark
John Nguyen
2007-10-07 18:03:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Nguyen
Question for you: Why do male dogs lift hind leg while pissing?
If you're going to mark territory, it would seem evolution has favored
the genes in dogs which adopt a pissing stance most likely to put
their scent as near the nose height of other dogs as possible. But I
find the posing of this question immediately after a discussion of
Pho, deeply disturbing.
mark
No, no. You got the wrong sequence. It's Pho, ducks, then dogs.

Re: male dogs, one of the hind legs was made with paper because it was
Frday afternoon in the creation time when they ran out of clay for one
of hind legs. So male dogs were told to be careful not to wet that leg
while pissing. I need to dig that story out.
Cheers,

John
Andrew Schulman
2007-10-07 18:06:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Nguyen
Re: male dogs, one of the hind legs was made with paper because it was
Frday afternoon in the creation time when they ran out of clay for one
of hind legs. So male dogs were told to be careful not to wet that leg
while pissing. I need to dig that story out.
Cheers,
My male yellow lab will find this to be very interesting, the female,
as usual, will not care.

Andrew
C***@hotmail.com
2007-10-07 18:47:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Nguyen
Question for you: Why do male dogs lift hind leg while pissing?
If you're going to mark territory, it would seem evolution has favored
the genes in dogs which adopt a pissing stance most likely to put
their scent as near the nose height of other dogs as possible. But I
find the posing of this question immediately after a discussion of
Pho, deeply disturbing.
mark
Deeply distrubing is right!

Once, while living with a woman in a real house with a backyard, I
planted a little garden. I had a lot of celantro and culantro. I
noticed a local dog always made a pit-stop on my celantro. I bought a
sling-shot and busted his a$$. He wouldn't even come in the yard
after that.

Che'
Tashi
2007-10-07 23:31:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by C***@hotmail.com
Post by John Nguyen
Question for you: Why do male dogs lift hind leg while pissing?
If you're going to mark territory, it would seem evolution has favored
the genes in dogs which adopt a pissing stance most likely to put
their scent as near the nose height of other dogs as possible. But I
find the posing of this question immediately after a discussion of
Pho, deeply disturbing.
mark
Deeply distrubing is right!
Once, while living with a woman in a real house with a backyard, I
planted a little garden. I had a lot of celantro and culantro. I
noticed a local dog always made a pit-stop on my celantro. I bought a
sling-shot and busted his a$$. He wouldn't even come in the yard
after that.
Che'
Man, I go out of town for the day come back anxoius to read everyones
thoughts on Bach cello suites and it has gone to the dogs!
MT
Jez
2007-10-07 18:14:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Nguyen
Post by C***@hotmail.com
Post by John Nguyen
Post by Dick Muldoon
I just spent an insomniac Sunday morning listening first to Goran
Sollscher playing Bach's cello suites, then to Rostropovich (old vinyl)
and Heinrich Schiff playing the same ... As lovely as Sollscher's
playing is, I'm stunned at how rich, how deep, how fluid, and how
utterly appropriate the cello performances are.
Is there some music that *should* not be transcribed for guitar?
For any literature, it is best to be read in its native langague. Does
that mean one should not translate Shakespeare's or Voltaire's into
Vietnamese?
Cheers,
John
The Vietnamese can be one of the most difficult ...even for the
Vietnamese. After all, John, who wants their Pho made and served by a
round eye in Kansas? :-) It doesn't mean they shouldn't make it but
there ought to be a law against it! :-)
Btw, I do know why ducks sleep standing on only one leg. :-)
Che'-
I hear ya. But one has to make due with what he got, desn't he? When I
came here, scallion was hard to come by, and you know it's not the
same to cook peppered fish stew without green scallion. So leek was my
subs back them, and with a little of imagination added, it came darn
close. Would I choose leek over scallion now? Not until a snowball
fight in hell!
I agree with you about Pho, though. It's gonna be tough to make the
right broth for it!
Re: duck sleep standing on one leg, Andrew Schumlman put it succintly.
Question for you: Why do male dogs lift hind leg while pissing?
So they don't piss on their boots.
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.", Albert Einstein
Steven Bornfeld
2007-10-07 15:10:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dick Muldoon
I just spent an insomniac Sunday morning listening first to Goran
Sollscher playing Bach's cello suites, then to Rostropovich (old vinyl)
and Heinrich Schiff playing the same ... As lovely as Sollscher's
playing is, I'm stunned at how rich, how deep, how fluid, and how
utterly appropriate the cello performances are.
Is there some music that *should* not be transcribed for guitar?
I'm sure there is. But I think Sollscher and Yates (not to mention
Nigel North on lute) speak to me in different ways. I have heard the
recordings of Casals and Lynn Harrell, and recently acquired Janos
Starker (which I haven't yet listened to). They all have their strong
points.

Steve