Discussion:
Strings Tension, Brand & Tone.
(too old to reply)
Jim
2004-02-24 11:27:57 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Some background...

I own 3 Kohno guitars dating from 1976 to 1980. There is a 1976 #15 a 1980
#30 and a 1978 #50.

They all have a 660mm scale and a spruce top, which is what I prefer.

I use the following strings on all my guitars: Augustine Blue for the Bass
set and Savarez Yellow Card for the treble set.
I know most people don't like the rough feel of the rectified Savarez
strings, but I'm addicted to it...

Anyhow, my first question here is whether I should use Yellow Card (Very
Hard Tension) on 660mm scale Kohnos.
Some say that too much tension will prevent for the soundboard from
vibrating and some say that since
Kohnos are braced very strongly you need the extra tension to make them
sound good.

I have tried both Red and Yellow Card treble sets and it's hard to determine
which is better.
But maybe the guitars need more time to get use to the tension.
Any info appreciated on this matter.

BTW, can it hurt the guitar and/or the sound to switch from one tension to
another?

These guitars all sound different, the #15 is a bit less powerfull of the 3.
However, she has a rounder and mellower tone.

The #50 and #30 are very similar (not to say the same) and just a tiny bit
more powerfull than the #15.
The sound is a bit brighter as well.
This may be due to the fact that these 2 guitars have taller frets and thus
the saddle is higher, hence making
them a bit more powerfull and brighter. Oddly enough, although they're
"supposed" to be better guitars,
they seem to "sing" less than the #15.

They are "stiffer" in a way, with a tiny bit more guts and character. FWIW,
my wife prefers the sound of the #15.....

I guess I'm addressing a lot of issues here, but any opinions on these
topics are very welcome.

I'm having a hard time making up my mind on these guitars.
As you all already know, they have been handmade by one of the most renown
luthier in the world, and yet,
some days I just love them, and some days, well....

Since I'll be traveling to Spain this coming summer maybe I'll by something
else there.

Cheers,

Jim
David Raleigh Arnold
2004-02-24 13:27:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Hi,
Some background...
I own 3 Kohno guitars dating from 1976 to 1980. There is a 1976 #15 a
1980 #30 and a 1978 #50.
They all have a 660mm scale and a spruce top, which is what I prefer.
I use the following strings on all my guitars: Augustine Blue for the
Bass set and Savarez Yellow Card for the treble set. I know most people
don't like the rough feel of the rectified Savarez strings, but I'm
addicted to it...
Anyhow, my first question here is whether I should use Yellow Card (Very
Hard Tension) on 660mm scale Kohnos.
Some say that too much tension will prevent for the soundboard from
vibrating and some say that since
Kohnos are braced very strongly you need the extra tension to make them
sound good.
I have tried both Red and Yellow Card treble sets and it's hard to
determine which is better.
That means it doesn't matter very much.
Post by Jim
But maybe the guitars need more time to get use to the tension. Any info
appreciated on this matter.
That's true, but you can always change strings one at a time.
Post by Jim
BTW, can it hurt the guitar and/or the sound to switch from one tension to
another?
I wouldn't put steel strings on it. daveA
--
It's not that hard to understand the lesson of Viet Nam. Never never
never never defend one tyrant against another, because The worst thing
that can happen is you might win. The *Gulf* war was worse than Nam.
D. Raleigh Arnold dra@ (http://www.) openguitar.com ***@cox.net
Jim
2004-02-24 15:15:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Post by Jim
Hi,
Some background...
I own 3 Kohno guitars dating from 1976 to 1980. There is a 1976 #15 a
1980 #30 and a 1978 #50.
They all have a 660mm scale and a spruce top, which is what I prefer.
I use the following strings on all my guitars: Augustine Blue for the
Bass set and Savarez Yellow Card for the treble set. I know most people
don't like the rough feel of the rectified Savarez strings, but I'm
addicted to it...
Anyhow, my first question here is whether I should use Yellow Card (Very
Hard Tension) on 660mm scale Kohnos.
Some say that too much tension will prevent for the soundboard from
vibrating and some say that since
Kohnos are braced very strongly you need the extra tension to make them
sound good.
I have tried both Red and Yellow Card treble sets and it's hard to
determine which is better.
That means it doesn't matter very much.
I can't believe it has no effect...
.
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Post by Jim
But maybe the guitars need more time to get use to the tension. Any info
appreciated on this matter.
That's true, but you can always change strings one at a time.
This is how I do it. I meant like a couple of days, or maybe a lot more...?
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Post by Jim
BTW, can it hurt the guitar and/or the sound to switch from one tension to
another?
I wouldn't put steel strings on it. daveA
Thanx for the piece of advice... I almost did it...

Thanx

Jim
GuitarsWeB
2004-02-24 16:10:34 UTC
Permalink
I gave up on all of them (strings) some years ago and use D'Addario normals.
Oribe says high tension will kill the sound on a good guitar, or at least his
guitars.
Paul McGuffin
Joseph Raymond
2004-02-24 21:13:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
These guitars all sound different, the #15 is a bit less powerfull of the 3.
However, she has a rounder and mellower tone.
The #50 and #30 are very similar (not to say the same) and just a tiny bit
more powerfull than the #15.
The sound is a bit brighter as well.
This may be due to the fact that these 2 guitars have taller frets and thus
the saddle is higher, hence making
them a bit more powerfull and brighter. Oddly enough, although they're
"supposed" to be better guitars,
they seem to "sing" less than the #15.
They are "stiffer" in a way, with a tiny bit more guts and character. FWIW,
my wife prefers the sound of the #15.....
I guess I'm addressing a lot of issues here, but any opinions on these
topics are very welcome.
Well, if you're asking for opinions, I'd like to give my dos centavos.
Let me start by saying it must be rough choosing the best of those
three :)

IMO, it might be that the brighter sound of #30 and #50 is framing
your perception of the #15. In other words, all three guitars have
similar underlying tone, but the absence of highs in the #15 make you
more aware of the middle. For example a few months ago Will Clinger
posted two recordings of his of the same piece, same guitar, except
one was done on an analog tape recorder while the other was done with
a sound card. While the sound card produced a far superior sound, the
analog tape recording seemed richer. But of course it wasn't at all.

Lastly, one thing you can try in order to A B guitars is to pluck a
string and measure how long it takes to decay with a stop watch. This
is a tip I heard from a piano tuner in regard to quickly judging
pianos.

Best regards,
Joe
Jim
2004-02-26 15:20:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph Raymond
Post by Jim
These guitars all sound different, the #15 is a bit less powerfull of the 3.
However, she has a rounder and mellower tone.
The #50 and #30 are very similar (not to say the same) and just a tiny bit
more powerfull than the #15.
The sound is a bit brighter as well.
This may be due to the fact that these 2 guitars have taller frets and thus
the saddle is higher, hence making
them a bit more powerfull and brighter. Oddly enough, although they're
"supposed" to be better guitars,
they seem to "sing" less than the #15.
They are "stiffer" in a way, with a tiny bit more guts and character.
FWIW,
Post by Joseph Raymond
Post by Jim
my wife prefers the sound of the #15.....
I guess I'm addressing a lot of issues here, but any opinions on these
topics are very welcome.
Well, if you're asking for opinions, I'd like to give my dos centavos.
Let me start by saying it must be rough choosing the best of those
three :)
Very much so. The 50 and 30 are more "mettalic" sounding" whereas the 15
is extremely mellow and soft... with a bit less power.
Post by Joseph Raymond
IMO, it might be that the brighter sound of #30 and #50 is framing
your perception of the #15. In other words, all three guitars have
similar underlying tone, but the absence of highs in the #15 make you
more aware of the middle. For example a few months ago Will Clinger
posted two recordings of his of the same piece, same guitar, except
one was done on an analog tape recorder while the other was done with
a sound card. While the sound card produced a far superior sound, the
analog tape recording seemed richer. But of course it wasn't at all.
Lastly, one thing you can try in order to A B guitars is to pluck a
string and measure how long it takes to decay with a stop watch. This
is a tip I heard from a piano tuner in regard to quickly judging
pianos.
All three have the same sustain (about 9 sec.)
Post by Joseph Raymond
Best regards,
Joe
Edward Bridge
2004-02-25 00:26:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Since I'll be traveling to Spain this coming summer maybe I'll by something
else there.
Cheers,
Jim
Americans makers are just as good with wine or guitars but olives. . can you
bring back some olives from Spain. I enjoy having olives and red wine there.

Don't think to much about strings , D'Addario normal work fine and easy to
fine. I use "luthiers strings" because their made in my home town.
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com
William Jennings
2004-02-25 10:31:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Bridge
Americans makers are just as good with wine or guitars but olives. . can you
bring back some olives from Spain. I enjoy having olives and red wine there.
Dear Heathen,

Pardon me...... this is highly subjective and a matter of taste! Maybe
just as good on some levels but to my taste French guitars (women)
cheese and bread, Northern Italian wines, shoes (women) and olive oil!
Guitar strings (women) come and go but that which I've listed is all
that's required for a good life! :-)

Asti Nebbiolo is not just for breakfast anymore!

Che' Asti Nebbiolo!
William Jennings
2004-02-25 10:35:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
Dear Heathen,
Pardon me...... this is highly subjective and a matter of taste!
Maybe
Post by William Jennings
just as good on some levels but to my taste French guitars (women)
cheese and bread, Northern Italian wines, shoes (women) and olive oil!
Guitar strings (women) come and go but that which I've listed is all
that's required for a good life! :-)
Asti Nebbiolo is not just for breakfast anymore!
Che' Asti Nebbiolo!
As usual I forgot.... Brazilian women and those foxes from Argentina!

I feel better now.

Che'
Edward Bridge
2004-02-25 21:33:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
Post by William Jennings
Dear Heathen,
Pardon me...... this is highly subjective and a matter of taste!
Maybe
Post by William Jennings
just as good on some levels but to my taste French guitars (women)
cheese and bread, Northern Italian wines, shoes (women) and olive oil!
Guitar strings (women) come and go but that which I've listed is all
that's required for a good life! :-)
Asti Nebbiolo is not just for breakfast anymore!
Che' Asti Nebbiolo!
As usual I forgot.... Brazilian women and those foxes from Argentina!
I feel better now.
Che'
I have to add in "Smoke Duck" from New York
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com>
William Jennings
2004-02-25 21:48:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Bridge
I have to add in "Smoke Duck" from New York
Then I'll add "Smoked Duck" from Seadrift, Texas. The ducks are here by
the millions. They by-pass New York and come here for the winter. You
growem' we eatem'. All things considered New York is my favorite city
in North America the other three happen to be in Canada. You do have
some lusty vittles .... if you can find a place to park.

If I sent you a very small ice chest with dry ice would you FedX me a
pastrami sandwich on rye. I'll send you some Mexican food that will
make your lips fight your tongue trying to get at it. :-) Doc will pay
both ways.... he just made a shit-pot of money..

Che' is hungry again.

P.S. We smoke other things. Can't say as I ever smoked a duck but I've
eaten my share. ;-)
Edward Bridge
2004-02-26 02:53:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
If I sent you a very small ice chest with dry ice would you FedX me a
pastrami sandwich on rye. I'll send you some Mexican food that will
make your lips fight your tongue trying to get at it. :-) Doc will pay
both ways.... he just made a shit-pot of money..
Would the bread go stale, You guys don't have Pastrami down there ?

Ed
William Jennings
2004-02-26 07:22:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Bridge
Post by William Jennings
If I sent you a very small ice chest with dry ice would you FedX me a
pastrami sandwich on rye. I'll send you some Mexican food that will
make your lips fight your tongue trying to get at it. :-) Doc will pay
both ways.... he just made a shit-pot of money..
Would the bread go stale, You guys don't have Pastrami down there ?
Ed
Ed, if you Federal Expressed it before 9:00PM it would be here for lunch
the next day. The bread wouldn't go stale.

You just had to rub it in didn't you? No, we don't have good Pastrami
way down here. They have what they call Pastrami
but it ain't! I went to an up-scale so called Jewish delicatessen in
Houston looking for good Pastrami and the girl said something about
their famous lean Pastrami. I was suspect when I heard the word
"famous" and with good reason, lean Pastrami means no taste. There is
nothing like a New York style delicatessen. Sarge's on the East Side
has the best Hot Pastrami in Creation! It's on 3rd Ave. near 36th.
street.

A Texas Style delicatessen is called a B-B-Q Joint and your olfactory
senses have never been assaulted by such sweet ambrosia of beef as it
gives up the ghost and turns tender after 12 hours. A mop is often used
to baste it as it smokes.

In New York, barbeque is putting some pork spareribs in the oven,
pouring ketchup over them, and cooking them for a couple of hours. I
call these places in the Big Apple "Barbie-Q Boutiques"........ less
than a savory experience.

In New York, Lindy's has the best cheese cake to my taste. In Texas,
cheese cake is NOT cake ... I'll stop right here!

Che'

P.S. When I was in the South Pacific a girlfriend Federal Expressed me
some food in dry ice. I was getting real tired of eating fruit bats,
roots and tins of camp pie! Those exotic fish I was catching on the
coral reefs, yeah, the natives said don't eat them if the flies don't
land on them. I asked "what's up with the flies?" and they said
"poison." Fish and mollusks in many parts of that part of the world
present a danger in one of three way, by attacking and biting you, by
injecting toxic venom into you through venomous spines or tentacles, and
through eating fish or mollusks whose flesh is toxic. Oh joy!
Edward Bridge
2004-02-27 17:43:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Jennings
Post by William Jennings
P.S. When I was in the South Pacific a girlfriend Federal Expressed me
some food in dry ice. I was getting real tired of eating fruit bats,
roots and tins of camp pie! Those exotic fish I was catching on the
coral reefs, yeah, the natives said don't eat them if the flies don't
land on them. I asked "what's up with the flies?" and they said
"poison." Fish and mollusks in many parts of that part of the world
present a danger in one of three way, by attacking and biting you, by
injecting toxic venom into you through venomous spines or tentacles, and
through eating fish or mollusks whose flesh is toxic. Oh joy!
Che

I almost lost a good friend to coral reef fish, It was three years of hell
for him and when I see him I hear the same thing "Ed, only eat deep sea or
fresh water. "

Sorry for the delay answer , gig, concert ,students kids thowing up and a
repair job in the kitchen plus I want to check on the shipping .

Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com

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