Discussion:
2005 Redgate Classical Guitar For Sale
(too old to reply)
LarryATahoe
2007-08-18 01:43:50 UTC
Permalink
2005 Redgate Classical Guitar For Sale

A new model similar to this sells for about $10,500. Will sell for
$8500 OBO. Good condition except top is scratched. A fine luthier told
me the scratches could be fixed or remediated for $400 to $500.

This is the same type of guitar Ana Vidovic plays. Buy it, you'll
sound like Ana.

larryaguitar.com
***@yahoo.com
marKo
2007-08-18 02:32:48 UTC
Permalink
Believe me; you will not sound like Ana. You will play a similar guitar,
that's all.



m.
Post by LarryATahoe
2005 Redgate Classical Guitar For Sale
A new model similar to this sells for about $10,500. Will sell for
$8500 OBO. Good condition except top is scratched. A fine luthier told
me the scratches could be fixed or remediated for $400 to $500.
This is the same type of guitar Ana Vidovic plays. Buy it, you'll
sound like Ana.
larryaguitar.com
Alcibiades
2007-08-18 03:31:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by marKo
Believe me; you will not sound like Ana. You will play a similar guitar,
that's all.
m.
Post by LarryATahoe
2005 Redgate Classical Guitar For Sale
A new model similar to this sells for about $10,500. Will sell for
$8500 OBO. Good condition except top is scratched. A fine luthier told
me the scratches could be fixed or remediated for $400 to $500.
This is the same type of guitar Ana Vidovic plays. Buy it, you'll
sound like Ana.
larryaguitar.com
- Show quoted text -
Did I already mention that the glorious Ms. Vidovic is once again
going to play in my area for two nights next month in the best
possible venue imaginable? After the second night, I'll have been to
four of her recitals. Yes!
John Rethorst
2007-08-18 05:46:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by LarryATahoe
This is the same type of guitar Ana Vidovic plays. Buy it, you'll
sound like Ana.
Promise?
--
John Rethorst
jrethorst at post dot com
Carlos Barrientos
2007-08-18 14:34:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Rethorst
Post by LarryATahoe
This is the same type of guitar Ana Vidovic plays. Buy it, you'll
sound like Ana.
Promise?
If only it were that easy....
--
Carlos Barrientos
"mailto:***@sprintmail.com"
Phone: (512) 218 - 8322
Kevin
2007-08-18 19:10:14 UTC
Permalink
Don't mean to insult any fans but why would anyone want to sound like
Ana???????
Post by LarryATahoe
Buy it, you'll
sound like Ana.
Alcibiades
2007-08-19 02:44:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin
Don't mean to insult any fans but why would anyone want to sound like
Ana???????
Post by LarryATahoe
Buy it, you'll
sound like Ana.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Why not? Is Ana bashing fashionable? Envy is ugly indeed.
John Rethorst
2007-08-19 02:57:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin
Don't mean to insult any fans but why would anyone want to sound like
Ana???????
Post by LarryATahoe
Buy it, you'll
sound like Ana.
Nor do I, but your question is a good one. Classical Guitar Alive! played a
recording of the Bach Flute Partita Ana made when she was 15, and it was not
only good Bach, it had great tone color. Everything I've heard from her on her
Redgate, though - live and recorded - is absolutely lacking in tone color. John
Williams on his Smallman too. I haven't played a lattice guitar, but I gather
they're very powerful and responsive, and maybe a player at Ana's and John's
level just is willing to sacrifice tone for it, hard as that sounds to believe.
But Jason Vieaux's new Wagner guitar is (I think) a lattice, and he gets plenty
of tone from it.

There's also the matter that a good artist would not want a thick, rich,
maple-syrup-sweet tone, as it were, all the time. But Ana and John seem recently
to have no tone at all, and I don't understand why.
--
John Rethorst
jrethorst at post dot com
Raptor
2007-08-19 02:59:53 UTC
Permalink
I don't think Jason's new instrument is a lattice, but a double-top,
like David Russell's Damman. But now that you've raised the issue, I
shall have to wander a bit on the net to be certain.

mark
Raptor
2007-08-19 03:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Jason's Wagner is built similarly to David Russell's Damman. They're
both double-tops. Some who've heard the Wagner instrument live have
told me it is among the best they've heard in concert, but I don't
know anyone who has played one.

mark
John O
2007-08-19 04:42:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Rethorst
Post by Kevin
Don't mean to insult any fans but why would anyone want to sound like
Ana???????
Post by LarryATahoe
Buy it, you'll
sound like Ana.
Nor do I, but your question is a good one. Classical Guitar Alive!
played a recording of the Bach Flute Partita Ana made when she was 15,
and it was not only good Bach, it had great tone color. Everything
I've heard from her on her Redgate, though - live and recorded - is
absolutely lacking in tone color. John Williams on his Smallman too. I
haven't played a lattice guitar, but I gather they're very powerful
and responsive, and maybe a player at Ana's and John's level just is
willing to sacrifice tone for it, hard as that sounds to believe. But
Jason Vieaux's new Wagner guitar is (I think) a lattice, and he gets
plenty of tone from it.
There's also the matter that a good artist would not want a thick,
rich, maple-syrup-sweet tone, as it were, all the time. But Ana and
John seem recently to have no tone at all, and I don't understand why.
I recently played a Philip Woodfield lattice braced guitar. It was
incredibly loud and powerful, but I missed the sweetness of fan bracing. I
think that "in your face" tone would wear thin after a while.
Alcibiades
2007-08-19 04:48:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by John O
I recently played a Philip Woodfield lattice braced guitar. It was
incredibly loud and powerful, but I missed the sweetness of fan bracing. I
think that "in your face" tone would wear thin after a while
If I'm completely honest, I must admit that the sound of the glorious
Ana Vidovic's guitar isn't my favorite. Too muddy.
Tashi
2007-08-19 17:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alcibiades
Post by John O
I recently played a Philip Woodfield lattice braced guitar. It was
incredibly loud and powerful, but I missed the sweetness of fan bracing. I
think that "in your face" tone would wear thin after a while
If I'm completely honest, I must admit that the sound of the glorious
Ana Vidovic's guitar isn't my favorite. Too muddy.
It takes years to develop taste in things in life, it's a process
and a journey. Like all of us Ana Vidovic hopefully will mature as
well.

A lot of guitarists try these Aussie guitars and like a bird
released from a ship in the middle of the ocean, will naturally come
back to the ship of organic materials.

Personally ,I never buy CD's with Aussie guitars, not out of any
extreme reaction, but because of a gradual trial and error CD buying
experience. It's the simple fact that after 10 minutes of listening
to carbon fiber braced soundboards I become bored, and non seduced by
beauty, and poetry.

Aussie guitars inhibit an artists ability to drive an instrument to
it's breaking point and create an exciting dynamic, lacking in the
monotonous voice of carbon fiber.

I hereby call for a boycott of all Aussie guitars shipped to the
US.or at least 200% tariffs. Who will join me in this noble cause?
Side note Larry..... this boycott will naturally raise the value of
all Aussie guitars presently in the US. I should have been an
economist......

MT
Raptor
2007-08-19 17:24:14 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 19, 11:14 am, Tashi <***@starband.net> wrote:

"I hereby call for a boycott of all Aussie guitars shipped to the
US.or at least 200% tariffs. Side note Larry..... this boycott will
naturally raise the value of all Aussie guitars presently in the US.
I should have been an economist......"

B.S. Free market will prevail over protectionism any day of the
week. The better instrument design and craftsmanship will always win
if people overcome the marketing hype and the "I want to play what so-
and-so plays".

mark
Larry Deack
2007-08-19 17:37:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
B.S. Free market will prevail
over protectionism any day of the week.
Optimistic view of China. Protectionism seems to be a way of life for
China and if you look closer you will see that the function of all
political systems is protectionism. We need oil and so do they... badly.

China is having fun doing everything wrong as fast as they can. Are
any of the top guitar makers living in China? Are some of the failed
Chinese concert artists going to take up making guitars since they can't
make a living playing them, not with that kind of competition?

That last part was from what a well known luthier once told me about
people like him wishing they could play like their favorite artists. He
had arthritis but he still made fine guitars.
Raptor
2007-08-19 18:13:24 UTC
Permalink
Larry, there are some areas in which trade "protectionism" or outright
exclusions is appropriate, e.g. "dumping" (exporting for less than
actual production costs - usually with state subsidies), dangerous
goods (Chinese mfr toys with lead paint, unsafe electrical
appliances), good mfr'd using child/prison labor, manufacturing
processes risking workers' health and/or causing short and long-term
environmental damage, etc. But I do not believe luthiers occupy any
of these categories (unless they use some of the nastier catalyzed
finishes that get into the liver and can cause cancer - the EPA has
pretty much eliminated a lot of these anyway, especially in
California).

But I'll give you an even better reason why we don't need luthier
trade protection. The best luthiers in the U.S. have more orders than
they can timely fill which means there is probably some elasticity in
their price schedules. Up to a point, long waiting lists = higher
prices. Supply and demand. Add a famous recording artist or two and
you can build just a few instruments a year and live quite
comfortably, e.g. Friederich, Damman, Wagner, Smallman, Romanillos,
etc.

mark
Jez
2007-08-19 18:26:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
Larry, there are some areas in which trade "protectionism" or outright
exclusions is appropriate, e.g. "dumping" (exporting for less than
actual production costs - usually with state subsidies), dangerous
goods (Chinese mfr toys with lead paint, unsafe electrical
appliances), good mfr'd using child/prison labor, manufacturing
processes risking workers' health and/or causing short and long-term
environmental damage, etc.
This was interesting...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/05/18/asia/AS-GEN-China-US-Labor.php

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/200601013_right_to_bleed_china/

China trying to give their workers more rights, and US companies threatened
them with a boycott.
Sweet.

I found this interesting too...
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18201.htm

and for those who don't believe in Socialism....

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/18/3248/

If it's good enough for the rich...
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.

"Culture and Ideology are not your friends. Culture is the greatest barrier
to your enlightenment, your education, and your decency." - Terence McKenna

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick
society."- Krishnamurti
Tashi
2007-08-19 18:57:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
Larry, there are some areas in which trade "protectionism" or outright
exclusions is appropriate, e.g. "dumping" (exporting for less than
actual production costs - usually with state subsidies), dangerous
goods (Chinese mfr toys with lead paint, unsafe electrical
appliances), good mfr'd using child/prison labor, manufacturing
processes risking workers' health and/or causing short and long-term
environmental damage, etc. But I do not believe luthiers occupy any
of these categories (unless they use some of the nastier catalyzed
finishes that get into the liver and can cause cancer - the EPA has
pretty much eliminated a lot of these anyway, especially in
California).
But I'll give you an even better reason why we don't need luthier
trade protection. The best luthiers in the U.S. have more orders than
they can timely fill which means there is probably some elasticity in
their price schedules. Up to a point, long waiting lists = higher
prices. Supply and demand. Add a famous recording artist or two and
you can build just a few instruments a year and live quite
comfortably, e.g. Friederich, Damman, Wagner, Smallman, Romanillos,
etc.
mark
Yes, but none of the above mentioned luthiers live in the US.
MT
Raptor
2007-08-19 19:25:29 UTC
Permalink
GuitarsWeB
2007-08-19 19:35:14 UTC
Permalink
Raptor
2007-08-19 19:41:02 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 19, 1:35 pm, GuitarsWeB <***@cox.net> wrote:

So, let me get this straight. If a luthier has no waiting [list],
their instruments are [not] worth buying?

Not at all. The context of the discussion was trade protectionism
which is normally suggested when trying to protect an industry or
workforce unable to defend itself against predatory competition. By
implication, a luthier with a waiting list is on the positive side of
the supply-and-demand equation and doesn't need protection.

There are some who get a special thrill out of happening upon
instrument builders who have neither lengthy waiting lists or mega-
dollar price schedules. Know any you'd care to recommend? My current
luthier is probably leaving my price range soon.

mark
Raptor
2007-08-19 19:45:19 UTC
Permalink
I left out an important qualifer. I meant to write, "There are some
who get a special thrill out of happening upon GREAT instrument
builders who have neither lengthy waiting lists or mega- dollar price
schedules."

mark
John O
2007-08-19 19:34:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Post by Alcibiades
Post by John O
I recently played a Philip Woodfield lattice braced guitar. It was
incredibly loud and powerful, but I missed the sweetness of fan
bracing. I think that "in your face" tone would wear thin after a
while
If I'm completely honest, I must admit that the sound of the glorious
Ana Vidovic's guitar isn't my favorite. Too muddy.
It takes years to develop taste in things in life, it's a process
and a journey. Like all of us Ana Vidovic hopefully will mature as
well.
A lot of guitarists try these Aussie guitars and like a bird
released from a ship in the middle of the ocean, will naturally come
back to the ship of organic materials.
Personally ,I never buy CD's with Aussie guitars, not out of any
extreme reaction, but because of a gradual trial and error CD buying
experience. It's the simple fact that after 10 minutes of listening
to carbon fiber braced soundboards I become bored, and non seduced by
beauty, and poetry.
Aussie guitars inhibit an artists ability to drive an instrument to
it's breaking point and create an exciting dynamic, lacking in the
monotonous voice of carbon fiber.
I hereby call for a boycott of all Aussie guitars shipped to the
US.or at least 200% tariffs. Who will join me in this noble cause?
Side note Larry..... this boycott will naturally raise the value of
all Aussie guitars presently in the US. I should have been an
economist......
MT
Woodfield, Byers, and Carnal, to name a few, do not use any carbon
bracing--they are still all-wood. Regardless, the Woodfield was still
quite agressive. I can see being initially lured by its power and
volume, but I think most people would miss the "poetry".
Tashi
2007-08-19 20:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by John O
Post by Tashi
Post by Alcibiades
Post by John O
I recently played a Philip Woodfield lattice braced guitar. It was
incredibly loud and powerful, but I missed the sweetness of fan
bracing. I think that "in your face" tone would wear thin after a
while
If I'm completely honest, I must admit that the sound of the glorious
Ana Vidovic's guitar isn't my favorite. Too muddy.
It takes years to develop taste in things in life, it's a process
and a journey. Like all of us Ana Vidovic hopefully will mature as
well.
A lot of guitarists try these Aussie guitars and like a bird
released from a ship in the middle of the ocean, will naturally come
back to the ship of organic materials.
Personally ,I never buy CD's with Aussie guitars, not out of any
extreme reaction, but because of a gradual trial and error CD buying
experience. It's the simple fact that after 10 minutes of listening
to carbon fiber braced soundboards I become bored, and non seduced by
beauty, and poetry.
Aussie guitars inhibit an artists ability to drive an instrument to
it's breaking point and create an exciting dynamic, lacking in the
monotonous voice of carbon fiber.
I hereby call for a boycott of all Aussie guitars shipped to the
US.or at least 200% tariffs. Who will join me in this noble cause?
Side note Larry..... this boycott will naturally raise the value of
all Aussie guitars presently in the US. I should have been an
economist......
MT
Woodfield, Byers, and Carnal, to name a few, do not use any carbon
bracing--they are still all-wood. Regardless, the Woodfield was still
quite agressive. I can see being initially lured by its power and
volume, but I think most people would miss the "poetry".- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I know Greg, and he makes excellent guitars, the other two luthiers
I've not heard of.

It is a shocker to play a Smallman type guitar at least as far as
volume is concernded, however lets face it, most classical guitarists
are wantabe rockers thesedays, and were not brought up with the the
proper values, to understand complexity of tone, they are interested
only in having the fastest car on the block, with the mufflers
removed.

While volume is improtant it's not everything, it's a balancing act.

Fake Boobs are neither fun to fondle, nor very interesting to
observe, yet they are a product of our modern times, and aren't
seeming to go away.....
MT
Raptor
2007-08-19 20:44:05 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 19, 2:32 pm, Tashi <***@starband.net> wrote:

While volume is improtant it's not everything, it's a balancing act.
Fake Boobs are neither fun to fondle, nor very interesting to observe,
yet they are a product of our modern times, and aren't seeming to go
away.....

Mmm. Interesting analogy. I've had expected you to go the route of
louder equals "biggest phallus" but your choice admits of the
parallels with shape and tone. Nice.

mark :>)
John O
2007-08-19 21:11:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Post by John O
Post by Tashi
A lot of guitarists try these Aussie guitars and like a bird
released from a ship in the middle of the ocean, will naturally come
back to the ship of organic materials.
Personally ,I never buy CD's with Aussie guitars, not out of any
extreme reaction, but because of a gradual trial and error CD buying
experience. It's the simple fact that after 10 minutes of listening
to carbon fiber braced soundboards I become bored, and non seduced by
beauty, and poetry.
Aussie guitars inhibit an artists ability to drive an instrument to
it's breaking point and create an exciting dynamic, lacking in the
monotonous voice of carbon fiber.
I hereby call for a boycott of all Aussie guitars shipped to the
US.or at least 200% tariffs. Who will join me in this noble cause?
Side note Larry..... this boycott will naturally raise the value of
all Aussie guitars presently in the US. I should have been an
economist......
MT
Woodfield, Byers, and Carnal, to name a few, do not use any carbon
bracing--they are still all-wood. Regardless, the Woodfield was still
quite agressive. I can see being initially lured by its power and
volume, but I think most people would miss the "poetry".- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I know Greg, and he makes excellent guitars, the other two luthiers
I've not heard of.
I meant to say that these three use all-wood lattice bracing.
David Schramm
2007-08-21 14:46:42 UTC
Permalink
The use, or lack of use, of carbon fiber in the lattice can not be heard in
a blind test. I've built more than 20 lattice guitars with cedar bracing and
with balsa/CF. It has to do with how all the components work together. The
shape/profile of the lattice, the angle of the struts, the density, the
strength, what type of cf?, how the cf is glued on, how many layers and
where the cf is added, bridge design, soundboard thickness, strength and
density, tuning of the lattice etc.. all of this controls the tone on a
lattice. In most lattice guitars that use CF, less than1% of the
construction is with CF!
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Tashi
2007-08-21 15:26:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
The use, or lack of use, of carbon fiber in the lattice can not be heard in
a blind test.
I guess I need to get my hearing checked...... and I'll tell all my
other friends who don't like them to have their hearing checked as
well. David thanks for straightening us out on that!
MT
David Schramm
2007-08-21 16:31:56 UTC
Permalink
Michael,

I have an idea, how about I upload 25 samples of guitars with and without
CF. If you can score 100% then you are right. If you can't ,well, then
you're full of crap. Are you up to the challenge?
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Raptor
2007-08-21 16:40:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Michael,
I have an idea, how about I upload 25 samples of guitars with and without
CF. If you can score 100% then you are right. If you can't ,well, then
you're full of crap. Are you up to the challenge?
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
I'm in! Reminds me of the Excel spreadsheet someone once sent me with
36 jpegs of breasts. Goal is to identify which are real and which are
store-bought. I scored 100% on that one. My hearing is better than
my eyes.

Actually, I rather doubt I can tell the difference 'tween carbon fibre
and balsa lattice. Live, I can't even tell the difference between
cedar and spruce when I'm listening blind. But in recordings, for
some reason I never like the composite instruments. I've long believe
they are more difficult to audio engineer well.

mark
GuitarsWeB
2007-08-21 17:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
Post by David Schramm
Michael,
I have an idea, how about I upload 25 samples of guitars with and without
CF. If you can score 100% then you are right. If you can't ,well, then
you're full of crap. Are you up to the challenge?
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
I'm in! Reminds me of the Excel spreadsheet someone once sent me with
36 jpegs of breasts. Goal is to identify which are real and which are
store-bought. I scored 100% on that one. My hearing is better than
my eyes.
Actually, I rather doubt I can tell the difference 'tween carbon fibre
and balsa lattice. Live, I can't even tell the difference between
cedar and spruce when I'm listening blind. But in recordings, for
some reason I never like the composite instruments. I've long believe
they are more difficult to audio engineer well.
mark
I've long believe
they are more difficult to audio engineer well.

mark >>>>>>>>>>>

That could well be. Ted Owens http://www.tedowensmusic.com says the
same thing and it's because of the sustain the lattice guitars
produce. I do know, they are great for live performances.
Paul McGuffin, Green Valley, Arizona
Tashi
2007-08-21 17:21:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Michael,
I have an idea, how about I upload 25 samples of guitars with and without
CF. If you can score 100% then you are right. If you can't ,well, then
you're full of crap. Are you up to the challenge?
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
Maybe someone else will take you up on that, but not I......for the
simple reason I don't trust recordings. If a guitar has a particular
weak point it can be mastered. I don't need to do your silly test to
know how I feel about it, I trust my own judgement, and the judgement
of other guitarists I respect, who don't like CF in guitars.

Huckleberry, are you trying to say there is NO controversy
concerning composite materials in guitars? Keep dreaming!

Ricardo Cobo told me once, he could detect CF in a guitar, after he
proudly told me his guitars had none. I could name a number of well
known guitarists who don't like Carbon Fiber lettuce guitars, or
double tops for that matter.


Take comfort my dear boy, and pat yourself on the back, you've single
handedly dispelled the ignorance of the masses with a few short words
of wisdom. Thanks again there Huckleberry.
MT
David Schramm
2007-08-21 20:00:11 UTC
Permalink
The issue never was how you "feel" about CF, it was about what you hear. You
either hear CF or you do not. I challenged your claim. You said you can hear
the difference. So I wanted to test your claim to see if it was true with a
simple listening test and you backed out.

It doesn't bother me that you do not like to use any CF in your necks,
soundboards, backs, sides whatever. That is your choice and it is up to you.
Bottom line, if it sounds good it is good.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Tashi
2007-08-21 20:14:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
The issue never was how you "feel" about CF, it was about what you hear. You
either hear CF or you do not. I challenged your claim. You said you can hear
the difference. So I wanted to test your claim to see if it was true with a
simple listening test and you backed out.
I'm sure as you go from the extreme of the Smallman design, to a
traditional braced guitar with _some_ carbon fiber in the braces it
becomes harder to detect, and I'm sure that was part of your trickery.

I will tell you this, post a traditional guitar, ( identify it) and
post a Smallman ( your hero) and I will tell you which is which. Fair
enough Huckleberry?
Post by David Schramm
It doesn't bother me that you do not like to use any CF in your necks,
soundboards, backs, sides whatever. That is your choice and it is up to you.
Bottom line, if it sounds good it is good.
I use CF in my necks, but not for sound purposes, and that's it!
Hucklberry, it dosn't bother me either that you like CF.

BTW, is that a brand new Schramm CF lattice guitar for sale at
Trilogy? I'm shocked no one has snaped that one up...... hasn't it
been there for about a year or so? Only fools rush in, I guess.
MT
Post by David Schramm
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
David Schramm
2007-08-21 21:28:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
I'm sure as you go from the extreme of the Smallman design, to a
traditional braced guitar with _some_ carbon fiber in the braces it
becomes harder to detect, and I'm sure that was part of your trickery.
MT I have no desire to trick you as you had hoped. Just wanted to see if you
would prove to everyone that you can listen to any guitar and tell if it had
CF or not as you claimed. I was trying to prove you right but I failed.
Post by Tashi
I will tell you this, post a traditional guitar, ( identify it) and
post a Smallman ( your hero) and I will tell you which is which.
I hate to burst your bubble, but Smallman never has been my "hero."

I'll post the sound samples later today. This should be fun!
Post by Tashi
BTW, is that a brand new Schramm CF lattice guitar for sale at
Trilogy? I'm shocked no one has snaped that one up...... hasn't it
been there for about a year or so?
I hate to burst your bubble twice in one post, I just delivered two guitars
to Trilogy and two more about to be delivered in 2 weeks. All of them are
sold and are on Trilogy's wait list for my guitars.... and no it hasn't been
there for a year. I sell three to four lattice guitars a month. John keeps
that guitar for people to try out, then he orders guitars from me. I asked
him if I could have it back but he needed to have something in stock. If he
didn't do it that way he wouldn't have anything to show people because they
sell as fast as I can make them.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Raptor
2007-08-21 21:52:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Post by Tashi
I'm sure as you go from the extreme of the Smallman design, to a
traditional braced guitar with _some_ carbon fiber in the braces it
becomes harder to detect, and I'm sure that was part of your trickery.
MT I have no desire to trick you as you had hoped. Just wanted to see if you
would prove to everyone that you can listen to any guitar and tell if it had
CF or not as you claimed. I was trying to prove you right but I failed.
Post by Tashi
I will tell you this, post a traditional guitar, ( identify it) and
post a Smallman ( your hero) and I will tell you which is which.
I hate to burst your bubble, but Smallman never has been my "hero."
I'll post the sound samples later today. This should be fun!
Post by Tashi
BTW, is that a brand new Schramm CF lattice guitar for sale at
Trilogy? I'm shocked no one has snaped that one up...... hasn't it
been there for about a year or so?
I hate to burst your bubble twice in one post, I just delivered two guitars
to Trilogy and two more about to be delivered in 2 weeks. All of them are
sold and are on Trilogy's wait list for my guitars.... and no it hasn't been
there for a year. I sell three to four lattice guitars a month. John keeps
that guitar for people to try out, then he orders guitars from me. I asked
him if I could have it back but he needed to have something in stock. If he
didn't do it that way he wouldn't have anything to show people because they
sell as fast as I can make them.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
I'm impressed. Not allowing for any vacation weeks, that's a
production of 36-48 lattice instruments a year plus however many
traditionally braced instruments you make. Do you work alone?

mark
Tashi
2007-08-21 22:13:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
Post by David Schramm
Post by Tashi
I'm sure as you go from the extreme of the Smallman design, to a
traditional braced guitar with _some_ carbon fiber in the braces it
becomes harder to detect, and I'm sure that was part of your trickery.
MT I have no desire to trick you as you had hoped. Just wanted to see if you
would prove to everyone that you can listen to any guitar and tell if it had
CF or not as you claimed. I was trying to prove you right but I failed.
Post by Tashi
I will tell you this, post a traditional guitar, ( identify it) and
post a Smallman ( your hero) and I will tell you which is which.
I hate to burst your bubble, but Smallman never has been my "hero."
I'll post the sound samples later today. This should be fun!
Post by Tashi
BTW, is that a brand new Schramm CF lattice guitar for sale at
Trilogy? I'm shocked no one has snaped that one up...... hasn't it
been there for about a year or so?
I hate to burst your bubble twice in one post, I just delivered two guitars
to Trilogy and two more about to be delivered in 2 weeks. All of them are
sold and are on Trilogy's wait list for my guitars.... and no it hasn't been
there for a year. I sell three to four lattice guitars a month. John keeps
that guitar for people to try out, then he orders guitars from me. I asked
him if I could have it back but he needed to have something in stock. If he
didn't do it that way he wouldn't have anything to show people because they
sell as fast as I can make them.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
I'm impressed. Not allowing for any vacation weeks, that's a
production of 36-48 lattice instruments a year plus however many
traditionally braced instruments you make. Do you work alone?
mark- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I bet David works on the Sabbath! That's how he does it! One year
I made 40 guitars and it took me three years to recover, and I have a
25 inch wide belt thickness sander.
MT
David Schramm
2007-08-21 23:33:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
I bet David works on the Sabbath!
Not at all. On Sabbath we go to church, visit the elderly in retirement
homes, take food and clothing to those who are in need, family worship time,
Bible study, Vespers, etc.. When Sabbath is over on Saturday at sundown I go
to work.
Post by Tashi
One year I made 40 guitars and it took me three years to recover, and I
have a
25 inch wide belt thickness sander.
I got rid of my belt sander (It used to be Oribe's) . I found a quicker way
to thickness backs, sides, and tops. The way my jigs are set up now I can
build 4 guitars a month with ease.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Tashi
2007-08-21 23:46:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Post by Tashi
I bet David works on the Sabbath!
Not at all. On Sabbath we go to church, visit the elderly in retirement
homes, take food and clothing to those who are in need, family worship time,
Bible study, Vespers, etc.. When Sabbath is over on Saturday at sundown I go
to work.
Yes it's an age old tradition that the day of rest is Saturday, and
not Sunday. Hindu's, and Buddhist's practice this as well.
Post by David Schramm
Post by Tashi
One year I made 40 guitars and it took me three years to recover, and I
have a
25 inch wide belt thickness sander.
I got rid of my belt sander (It used to be Oribe's) . I found a quicker way
to thickness backs, sides, and tops. The way my jigs are set up now I can
build 4 guitars a month with ease.
What do you use to thickness your backs and sides, that's quicker
than a Timesaver?

Hum..... it takes me at least 2 or 3 weeks to French polish a
guitar.... Hum......
MT
Post by David Schramm
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
David Schramm
2007-08-22 05:04:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
What do you use to thickness your backs and sides, that's quicker
than a Timesaver?
I have developed a quick method that I use on my drill press.
Post by Tashi
Hum..... it takes me at least 2 or 3 weeks to French polish a
guitar.... Hum......
It used to take me that long too. A luthier up in Fort Bragg and I have been
working on a method that only takes one day to FP the whole guitar. He has
asked me not to advertise the method because he is creating a dvd that
describes it. I was skeptical at first, but after I tried it I was amazed
at how quick it is. The last guitar I FP'd only took about 5 hours. Brune
also has a one day method as well.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
marKo
2007-08-22 11:06:23 UTC
Permalink
hm. one day to polish a guitar.

I am sceptical. It is only possible if you seal everything with epoxy in
excess. Sand smooth and give a french polish shine. But that's it.

If you put on too much finish in a small amount of time it will make some
sort of cracks (it looks like old skin) underneath. Smooth on the outside
but underneath..




marKo.
Post by David Schramm
Post by Tashi
What do you use to thickness your backs and sides, that's quicker
than a Timesaver?
I have developed a quick method that I use on my drill press.
Post by Tashi
Hum..... it takes me at least 2 or 3 weeks to French polish a
guitar.... Hum......
It used to take me that long too. A luthier up in Fort Bragg and I have
been working on a method that only takes one day to FP the whole guitar.
He has asked me not to advertise the method because he is creating a dvd
that describes it. I was skeptical at first, but after I tried it I was
amazed at how quick it is. The last guitar I FP'd only took about 5 hours.
Brune also has a one day method as well.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
David Schramm
2007-08-22 19:00:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by marKo
I am sceptical.
I was too until I tried it. Do you know how it is done? Have you tried it?
Post by marKo
It is only possible if you seal everything with epoxy in
excess. Sand smooth and give a french polish shine. But that's it.
You do not need to use an excess of epoxy if you use that method. If you are
using too much epoxy in your pore fills then you are doing it wrong. I do
not use any epoxy as a pore fill.
Post by marKo
If you put on too much finish in a small amount of time it will make some
sort of cracks (it looks like old skin) underneath. Smooth on the outside
but underneath..
That has nothing to do with the one day method. The speed is not in using a
lot of FP but in using less of it with a quicker drying time.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Tashi
2007-08-22 19:19:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Post by marKo
I am sceptical.
I was too until I tried it. Do you know how it is done? Have you tried it?
Of course he hasn't you moron, because it's a fucking secret! Do
you always speak in tongues?
Post by David Schramm
Post by marKo
It is only possible if you seal everything with epoxy in
excess. Sand smooth and give a french polish shine. But that's it.
You do not need to use an excess of epoxy if you use that method. If you are
using too much epoxy in your pore fills then you are doing it wrong. I do
not use any epoxy as a pore fill.
What do you use? pray tell Oh wise one!
Post by David Schramm
Post by marKo
If you put on too much finish in a small amount of time it will make some
sort of cracks (it looks like old skin) underneath. Smooth on the outside
but underneath..
That has nothing to do with the one day method. The speed is not in using a
lot of FP but in using less of it with a quicker drying time.
Are you saying all the solvents evaporate in 5 hours? Your full
of shit.... worse case your your a great Mousekater. However, I think
your a class" A "bullshiter!
MT
Post by David Schramm
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
David Schramm
2007-08-22 20:25:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
What do you use? pray tell Oh wise one!
I like the water based LMI Pore filler. But I have many methods that I use.
Post by Tashi
Are you saying all the solvents evaporate in 5 hours?
No, I never said that. That is one of your famous provocative Thames Rumors
at work again.
Give me a quote.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Raptor
2007-08-22 11:12:32 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 21, 11:04 pm, "David Schramm" <***@comcast.net> wrote:

The last guitar I FP'd only took about 5 hours. Brune also has a one
day method as well.

David: Where's the romance of the luthier's art! Guitars whipped out
in a week and French polished in 5 hrs sounds more like the factory
floor at Ramirez or Yamaha than a solo craftsman. Your shop must be a
model of ingenuity and efficiency, with very little "mystery"
participating in the process. One of these days I'll happen upon an
opportunity to play one of your guitars to hear it for myself. 'Till
then, I'll check your website for a discography of artists who have
used your instruments to make a CD. As has been remarked upon, audio
engineers can make a silk purse of a pig's ear, but the guts of an
instrument are always lurking beneath the make-up.

mark
GuitarsWeB
2007-08-22 16:52:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
The last guitar I FP'd only took about 5 hours. Brune also has a one
day method as well.
David: Where's the romance of the luthier's art! Guitars whipped out
in a week and French polished in 5 hrs sounds more like the factory
floor at Ramirez or Yamaha than a solo craftsman. Your shop must be a
model of ingenuity and efficiency, with very little "mystery"
participating in the process. One of these days I'll happen upon an
opportunity to play one of your guitars to hear it for myself. 'Till
then, I'll check your website for a discography of artists who have
used your instruments to make a CD. As has been remarked upon, audio
engineers can make a silk purse of a pig's ear, but the guts of an
instrument are always lurking beneath the make-up.
mark
Your shop must be a
model of ingenuity and efficiency, with very little "mystery" >>>>>>>>

What "mystery?" You mean guitars built with "church doors?"
soundboards cut from trees between 2800 and 3000 meters elevations, on
a full moon? Oribe once told me, it, guitar building, was 90% science/
physics and 10% vudo/mystery. And, I would say the Oribe shop is a
model of ingenuity and efficiency. I'll bet MT's shop is also that
way.
Paul McGuffin, Green Valley, Arizona
Tashi
2007-08-22 17:49:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
Post by Raptor
The last guitar I FP'd only took about 5 hours. Brune also has a one
day method as well.
David: Where's the romance of the luthier's art! Guitars whipped out
in a week and French polished in 5 hrs sounds more like the factory
floor at Ramirez or Yamaha than a solo craftsman. Your shop must be a
model of ingenuity and efficiency, with very little "mystery"
participating in the process. One of these days I'll happen upon an
opportunity to play one of your guitars to hear it for myself. 'Till
then, I'll check your website for a discography of artists who have
used your instruments to make a CD. As has been remarked upon, audio
engineers can make a silk purse of a pig's ear, but the guts of an
instrument are always lurking beneath the make-up.
mark
Your shop must be a
model of ingenuity and efficiency, with very little "mystery" >>>>>>>>
What "mystery?" You mean guitars built with "church doors?"
soundboards cut from trees between 2800 and 3000 meters elevations, on
a full moon? Oribe once told me, it, guitar building, was 90% science/
physics and 10% vudo/mystery. And, I would say the Oribe shop is a
model of ingenuity and efficiency. I'll bet MT's shop is also that
way.
Paul McGuffin, Green Valley, Arizona- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I'm beginning to think the word science is less accurate, perhaps
the word data is better.....but science is a collection of data I
guess, oh well. Perhaps the real secret is how each person interprets,
and applies the data.

Perhaps they are using good data, to produce a bad result, then again
who am I to define perfect. I just know what I don't like.... what I
like is even more of a mystery, because as soon as you get what you
want, you end up wanting what you don't have, and round and round we
go.

The idea of degrading personal intuition and experience ( Oribe,
Gilbert etc.) while at the same time proclaiming science to be ones
main mode of operation, seems to me rather pointless when applied to
the grass is always greener syndrome.

Data can be stored in our brains, or stored on paper, some people
need to measure stiffness of a top with gauges, some people use their
own fingers. Some claim science has helped them make the best guitars
in the world and some claim it's helped them make the worse, and some
people have perfect pitch, and some need a tuner etc.
Some people hide behind the science and blow smoke up your ass, some
hide behind intuition and do the same. The proof is in the pudding,
that is if your taste buds are working. Or perhaps one can't taste
the vegetables with all the salt you just poured on.

Question for you Paul. Oribe, and Gilbert profess they use so
called science, are their guitar hence the best in the world? Are
Oribe's and Gilbert's guitars better than Ruck's, or mine? Ruck who
from what I have heard uses the touchy feely method.

If your answer is no, then I would take Oribe, and Gilbert's comments
plus $3.75 and buy yourself a Latte Grande, at Starbucks.
MT
Alcibiades
2007-08-22 18:07:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
The idea of degrading personal intuition and experience ( Oribe,
Gilbert etc.) while at the same time proclaiming science to be ones
main mode of operation, seems to me rather pointless...
Agreed, but please know that you're a dying breed in this regard. In
the Brave New World, efficiency is a supreme value, thus the human
element must eventually be eliminated. Programmers will replace
luthiers; computers will eventually make guitars. Then again, by then
there will be no music left in our souls, so no guitars will need to
be made at all. Yay!
Tashi
2007-08-22 19:08:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alcibiades
Post by Tashi
The idea of degrading personal intuition and experience ( Oribe,
Gilbert etc.) while at the same time proclaiming science to be ones
main mode of operation, seems to me rather pointless...
Agreed, but please know that you're a dying breed in this regard. In
the Brave New World, efficiency is a supreme value, thus the human
element must eventually be eliminated. Programmers will replace
luthiers; computers will eventually make guitars. Then again, by then
there will be no music left in our souls, so no guitars will need to
be made at all. Yay!
Dear Alcibiades, I use the word dear because I'm growing fond of you
more and more. You and I share more in common than you would think.
If you could just bridge this gap between East, and West, I think we
could be the best of freinds. Send me a morsel or a hint in that
direction........

BTW, If one made a guitar from the "church doors" Saint Francess
walked through, I think it would have more mojo than ordering the wood
from Luthiers mercantile. That's my scientific analysis. After all
the valley glowed with light when he prayed, and the fish would follow
him across the lake, and he could pacify wild animals. Yet, I can't
seduce the barnyard with simple truths.
MT
MT
MT
Alcibiades
2007-08-22 20:50:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
You and I share more in common than you would think.
If you could just bridge this gap between East, and West, I think we
could be the best of freinds. Send me a morsel or a hint in that
direction........
O, but I have! Both of us have maintained an eye the transcendent,
which immediately distinguishes us from today's asphyxiating Brave New
World, which seeks to cut us off from any sense of the transcendent.
That you're wrong about the nature of the transcendent is of no
concern at the moment; the very fact that you haven't cut yourself off
from it immediately sets you, along with me, at odds with this regime.
Thus common ground.

By the way, you recently compared Catholics to children. I recommend
that you read Thomas Aquinas, for instance, to disabuse you of this
wrong opinion. If I can read the Tao Te Ching, as I now am, you can
read Aquinas. Incidentally, I'm finding the Tao to be infinitely
shallow compared to the Angelic Doctor and other great Catholic
thinkers. Abandon fashionable exoticism.
Tashi
2007-08-22 22:31:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alcibiades
Post by Tashi
You and I share more in common than you would think.
If you could just bridge this gap between East, and West, I think we
could be the best of freinds. Send me a morsel or a hint in that
direction........
O, but I have! Both of us have maintained an eye the transcendent,
which immediately distinguishes us from today's asphyxiating Brave New
World, which seeks to cut us off from any sense of the transcendent.
That you're wrong about the nature of the transcendent is of no
concern at the moment; the very fact that you haven't cut yourself off
from it immediately sets you, along with me, at odds with this regime.
Thus common ground.
What is my error in understanding the nature of the transendent?
Post by Alcibiades
By the way, you recently compared Catholics to children. I recommend
that you read Thomas Aquinas, for instance, to disabuse you of this
wrong opinion. If I can read the Tao Te Ching, as I now am, you can
read Aquinas. Incidentally, I'm finding the Tao to be infinitely
shallow compared to the Angelic Doctor and other great Catholic
thinkers. Abandon fashionable exoticism.
The context in which I referred Catholics to children was actually a
compliment. A child like innocence is something very difficult to
achieve in this world. The state of Christianity in Italy is more
heart felt and honest, compared to the manipulative delusional rapture
right wing nut cases that dominate here in this country.
I've never read Tao Te Ching, nor do I have much interest in
Taoism. I'm Buddhist, they are quite different things.

Personally, I don't find Buddhism exotic, I find it hard work. I
can see how an outsider might find it exotic, but this is not the case
in my situation. Funny how we are opposites. I find Christianity
quite shallow compared to Buddhism. I'm generally not one to embrace
fashion of any kind, as can be exhibited in my guitar making, I'm
quite old school in that regard, I like old things!
MT
GuitarsWeB
2007-08-22 21:18:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Post by Raptor
Post by Raptor
The last guitar I FP'd only took about 5 hours. Brune also has a one
day method as well.
David: Where's the romance of the luthier's art! Guitars whipped out
in a week and French polished in 5 hrs sounds more like the factory
floor at Ramirez or Yamaha than a solo craftsman. Your shop must be a
model of ingenuity and efficiency, with very little "mystery"
participating in the process. One of these days I'll happen upon an
opportunity to play one of your guitars to hear it for myself. 'Till
then, I'll check your website for a discography of artists who have
used your instruments to make a CD. As has been remarked upon, audio
engineers can make a silk purse of a pig's ear, but the guts of an
instrument are always lurking beneath the make-up.
mark
Your shop must be a
model of ingenuity and efficiency, with very little "mystery" >>>>>>>>
What "mystery?" You mean guitars built with "church doors?"
soundboards cut from trees between 2800 and 3000 meters elevations, on
a full moon? Oribe once told me, it, guitar building, was 90% science/
physics and 10% vudo/mystery. And, I would say the Oribe shop is a
model of ingenuity and efficiency. I'll bet MT's shop is also that
way.
Paul McGuffin, Green Valley, Arizona- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I'm beginning to think the word science is less accurate, perhaps
the word data is better.....but science is a collection of data I
guess, oh well. Perhaps the real secret is how each person interprets,
and applies the data.
Perhaps they are using good data, to produce a bad result, then again
who am I to define perfect. I just know what I don't like.... what I
like is even more of a mystery, because as soon as you get what you
want, you end up wanting what you don't have, and round and round we
go.
The idea of degrading personal intuition and experience ( Oribe,
Gilbert etc.) while at the same time proclaiming science to be ones
main mode of operation, seems to me rather pointless when applied to
the grass is always greener syndrome.
Data can be stored in our brains, or stored on paper, some people
need to measure stiffness of a top with gauges, some people use their
own fingers. Some claim science has helped them make the best guitars
in the world and some claim it's helped them make the worse, and some
people have perfect pitch, and some need a tuner etc.
Some people hide behind the science and blow smoke up your ass, some
hide behind intuition and do the same. The proof is in the pudding,
that is if your taste buds are working. Or perhaps one can't taste
the vegetables with all the salt you just poured on.
Question for you Paul. Oribe, and Gilbert profess they use so
called science, are their guitar hence the best in the world? Are
Oribe's and Gilbert's guitars better than Ruck's, or mine? Ruck who
from what I have heard uses the touchy feely method.
If your answer is no, then I would take Oribe, and Gilbert's comments
plus $3.75 and buy yourself a Latte Grande, at Starbucks.
MT
Question for you Paul. Oribe, and Gilbert profess they use so
called science, are their guitar hence the best in the world? Are
Oribe's and Gilbert's guitars better than Ruck's, or mine?>>>>

Your post was very well written and I would have to agree. As far as
Gilbers goes; I only met him several times. I think he made some very
nice instruments. I have only played a few; maybe five. They are nice
but don't knock me out. Oribe is also "touchy feeley." IMO, what Oribe
was trying to say, there are no "BIG" secrets in building a good
instruments; follow a proved design, use good materials and quality
workmanship, and you will make a good guitar. The main thing he was
saying; there's too much hype about the "vudo" we all hear. I think
Oribe's guitars speak for them selves. Either you like them or you
don't. He must be doing something right. Joe has been in business for
45 years now and made over 2000 guitars.
Paul McGuffin
Raptor
2007-08-22 19:17:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
Post by Raptor
The last guitar I FP'd only took about 5 hours. Brune also has a one
day method as well.
David: Where's the romance of the luthier's art! Guitars whipped out
in a week and French polished in 5 hrs sounds more like the factory
floor at Ramirez or Yamaha than a solo craftsman. Your shop must be a
model of ingenuity and efficiency, with very little "mystery"
participating in the process. One of these days I'll happen upon an
opportunity to play one of your guitars to hear it for myself. 'Till
then, I'll check your website for a discography of artists who have
used your instruments to make a CD. As has been remarked upon, audio
engineers can make a silk purse of a pig's ear, but the guts of an
instrument are always lurking beneath the make-up.
mark
Your shop must be a
model of ingenuity and efficiency, with very little "mystery" >>>>>>>>
What "mystery?" You mean guitars built with "church doors?"
soundboards cut from trees between 2800 and 3000 meters elevations, on
a full moon? Oribe once told me, it, guitar building, was 90% science/
physics and 10% vudo/mystery. And, I would say the Oribe shop is a
model of ingenuity and efficiency. I'll bet MT's shop is also that
way.
Paul McGuffin, Green Valley, Arizona- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Paul: "Mystery" is probably my catch-all term for what Jungians would
call intuition, which in the end is simply unconscious logic. Unpack
that intuition and record the critical observations which inform it
and eventually you arrive at science and a near linear connection
between cause and effect, e.g. Oribe's contention that luthery is 90%
science. There is an odd irony for me in that fact I like to think of
luthiers as "wizards" but want my doctor to be a clinical scientist
when in fact both are simply applying training, experience and
judgment to achieving a result. In reality, I do not know any good
instrument makers or doctors who are not focused, precise and
committed to their craft. In other words, professionals.

mark
Larry Deack
2007-08-22 19:51:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
Paul: "Mystery" is probably my catch-all term for what Jungians would
call intuition, which in the end is simply unconscious logic.
Huh? Logic... again? You have got to be kidding! The Mystery of
Jungian Synchronicity is that anybody in the 21st century can believe in
it any more than believing that street lights go out when they go by.
Tashi
2007-08-22 20:06:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Raptor
Paul: "Mystery" is probably my catch-all term for what Jungians would
call intuition, which in the end is simply unconscious logic.
Huh? Logic... again? You have got to be kidding! The Mystery of
Jungian Synchronicity is that anybody in the 21st century can believe in
it any more than believing that street lights go out when they go by.
Does that happen a lot to you Larry, when passing through
intersections?
MT
Larry Deack
2007-08-22 20:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Does that happen a lot to you Larry,
when passing through intersections?
Not any more than anybody else.
Raptor
2007-08-22 20:10:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Deack
Post by Raptor
Paul: "Mystery" is probably my catch-all term for what Jungians would
call intuition, which in the end is simply unconscious logic.
Huh? Logic... again? You have got to be kidding! The Mystery of
Jungian Synchronicity is that anybody in the 21st century can believe in
it any more than believing that street lights go out when they go by.
Larry, I don't believe in Jungian scynchronicity. But long before he
got into that paranormal stuff, he wrote about intuition at a more
basic level. It's been so long since I read Jung (maybe 30 years), I
cannot provide any cites, though. I can't even remember the context
of his discussion of it. But even if Jung went long and wide on the
scynch stuff, can you offer me a better explanation of "intuition"
than his? Of what do you believe intuition is comprised?

mark
Larry Deack
2007-08-22 20:25:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
Larry, I don't believe in Jungian scynchronicity.
It's sure spawned a huge number of "believers" including some who
should know better.
Post by Raptor
But even if Jung went long and wide on the
scynch stuff, can you offer me a better explanation of "intuition"
than his? Of what do you believe intuition is comprised?
We could probably go all over the place with this topic. What's
interesting to me is how current technology is shaping such questions.
Our brain is being reverse engineered at a very rapid pace and the tools
seem to get better faster than research can keep up.

I think some interesting answers to your question can be found in
the research of people like those with Williams Syndrome. They seem to
have an "intuition" for music. Can Jung explain it? Can you or me
explain it?
David Schramm
2007-08-22 19:35:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
Your shop must be a
model of ingenuity and efficiency, with very little "mystery"
participating in the process.
You are correct. I don't BS people by saying there is a "mystery" to guitar
making. I like what Jose Romanillos and Manuel Velasquez say, "There are no
Secrets!" I don't use the "mystery" and "secrets" hype to sell guitars. I
charge extra for the "mystery" process ;-)
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Tashi
2007-08-22 20:09:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Post by Raptor
Your shop must be a
model of ingenuity and efficiency, with very little "mystery"
participating in the process.
You are correct. I don't BS people by saying there is a "mystery" to guitar
making. I like what Jose Romanillos and Manuel Velasquez say, "There are no
Secrets!" I don't use the "mystery" and "secrets" hype to sell guitars. I
charge extra for the "mystery" process ;-)
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
No, instead you use the pretense of science and research!
MT
David Schramm
2007-08-22 20:28:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
No, instead you use the pretense of science and research!
Another provocative Thames rumor at work once again. Never said that.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Tashi
2007-08-22 22:38:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Post by Tashi
No, instead you use the pretense of science and research!
Another provocative Thames rumor at work once again. Never said that.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
You are correct, I said that!
MT
David Schramm
2007-08-23 02:08:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Post by David Schramm
Post by Tashi
No, instead you use the pretense of science and research!
Another provocative Thames rumor at work once again. Never said that.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
You are correct, I said that!
Exactly! That is why it is a rumor. It has no foundation in truth.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Tashi
2007-08-22 15:01:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Post by Tashi
What do you use to thickness your backs and sides, that's quicker
than a Timesaver?
I have developed a quick method that I use on my drill press.
You developed it? You invented the sanding disk? You also claim
it's faster than a Timesaver. I have a sanding disk on my drill press
too! However, I have no doubt which is faster or more efficient.
Perhaps the truth is you didn't have room in your shop or 3 phase
power to hook up Oribe's old sander, but to claim "your" disk method
is faster is pure bullshit!
Post by David Schramm
Post by Tashi
Hum..... it takes me at least 2 or 3 weeks to French polish a
guitar.... Hum......
It used to take me that long too. A luthier up in Fort Bragg and I have been
working on a method that only takes one day to FP the whole guitar. He has
asked me not to advertise the method because he is creating a dvd that
describes it. I was skeptical at first, but after I tried it I was amazed
at how quick it is. The last guitar I FP'd only took about 5 hours. Brune
also has a one day method as well.
I've talked to Brune too. He never gave me the impression he does
a FP in one day. As a matter of fact he told me his son does it. Next
time I talk to him I'll ask him about it.
Huckelberry, what you call a French Polish and what I call a
French polish sound like two different things.... lets be clear about
that. Anyone can smeer some shellac on a guitar and pronounce it
done. The problem is weeks later when the finish shrinks into the
wood. Without giving away the " secret Method" how do you compesate
for speeding up solvent evaporation and shrinkage, or don't you care?

My finishes are like glass, and that takes time, no way to spin
that one. If you do a quick mat finish then that's something else
entirely and most definitely should not be called a French polish.

Lets see...... You've developed a method to FP in one day, you make
46 guitars a year and sell the majority of them through one store
because you like to go swimming in the neighborhood. You claim no one
can detect an audible difference between CF Aussie style guitars and
traditional guitars. You also claim non human tolerances in the
building of your instruments...... You spin some pretty good tales,
Huckleberry.

We have a saying in Santa Fe.... fool me once shame on me .... fool
me twice....shame on ..........well you just can fool me again.......
he he...
MT
Post by David Schramm
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
David Schramm
2007-08-22 20:18:47 UTC
Permalink
You developed it?<
Yes, I developed MY method which is a variation on John Gilbert's method.You
knew that.You have no knowledge of how I do it.
You invented the sanding disk?<
Nope, I never said that and you know it. That is another one of your
provocative rumors. About 5+ years ago I had Greg Matonis, John's
son-in-law, make them since I was receiving request for them. Greg sells
them on the Gilbert Tuners web site.
You also claim it's faster than a Timesaver.
Nope, I never claimed that. You started that provocative rumor. I said it
is quicker than the thickness sander that I bought from Jose Oribe.
I would love to have a Timesaver. You assumed that I was talking about a
Timesaver. I specifically said the thickness sander that I bought from
Oribe! Here is the photo taken when my friends Paul and Jack picked up the
thickness sander and 12" x 48" belt sander from Oribe
Loading Image...
I have a sanding disk on my drill press
too! However, I have no doubt which is faster or more efficient.
That's great. Good for you.
Perhaps the truth is you didn't have room in your shop or 3 phase
power to hook up Oribe's old sander, but to claim "your" disk method
is faster is pure bullshit!
I have room in my shop and yes I have Phase 3 power. Since you are an expert
on the Oribe thickness sander that I had how about describing it? Do you
know who made it?
I've talked to Brune too. He never gave me the impression he does
a FP in one day. As a matter of fact he told me his son does it. Next
time I talk to him I'll ask him about it.
You should, Marshall did a demo of it at the last GAL. I was there. I don't
use his method, I prefer mine.
Huckelberry, what you call a French Polish and what I call a
French polish sound like two different things.... lets be clear about
that. Anyone can smeer some shellac on a guitar and pronounce it
done.
I do not smear it on and pronounce it done. That is another one of your
provocative rumors.
The problem is weeks later when the finish shrinks into the
wood. Without giving away the " secret Method" how do you compesate
for speeding up solvent evaporation and shrinkage, or don't you care?
I take care of that problem with my process. Do you pore fill? I fill the
pores before I start the FP process. Pore filling is not the same as French
polishing. That is self explanitory.
My finishes are like glass, and that takes time, no way to spin
that one. If you do a quick mat finish then that's something else
entirely and most definitely should not be called a French polish.
Sorry, I do not do a quick matte finish. My finish is a glass smooth high
gloss finish. What kind of pad material are you using? The right kind of
micro fiber cloth makes a huge difference in the process. It has to be a
certain weave to get the best results.
Lets see...... You've developed a method to FP in one day,<<
I have my variation of the FP one day method. I give credit to the person
who shared the method with me. All I did was tweak it so it fit my style.
you make 46 guitars a year and sell the majority of them through one store
No, that is another provocative Thames Rumor. It is sad that you have to
stoop so low as to start rumors about other builders.
You claim no one
can detect an audible difference between CF Aussie style guitars and
traditional guitars.
No, I said CF used in guitars. That can mean either traditional or lattice.
Get your facts and stop the provocative rumors.
You also claim non human tolerances in the
building of your instruments
A tolerance of 0.0005" is not non-human. The majority of parts I make are
within 0.001" which isn't that small. I rarely need to use 0.0005", but it
can be done easily by a skilled craftsman.
Post by Tashi
...... You spin some pretty good tales,
Huckleberry.<<<
I really don't care if you can't do what I do. You should do your own thing.
I found what works for me and you found what works for you.

You spread a lot of rumors. Get the facts before you start saying things
that are not true about people.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Tashi
2007-08-22 21:25:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
You developed it?<
Yes, I developed MY method which is a variation on John Gilbert's method.You
knew that.You have no knowledge of how I do it.
What.... you force the wood through with your left hand, instead of
your right hand? Every time I had a thought I would love to lay claim
to it and declare it mine..... you my friend, make an art form out of
it!
Post by David Schramm
Nope, I never said that and you know it. That is another one of your
provocative rumors. About 5+ years ago I had Greg Matonis, John's
son-in-law, make them since I was receiving request for them. Greg sells
them on the Gilbert Tuners web site.
You also claim it's faster than a Timesaver.
Nope, I never claimed that. You started that provocative rumor. I said it
is quicker than the thickness sander that I bought from Jose Oribe.
I would love to have a Timesaver. You assumed that I was talking about a
Timesaver. I specifically said the thickness sander that I bought from
Oribe! Here is the photo taken when my friends Paul and Jack picked up the
thickness sander and 12" x 48" belt sander from Oribehttp://schrammguitars.com/om~1.jpg
You got me there David, I thought you bought the one that is in
Oribe's book that looks a lot like a Timesaver. My mistake! And deep
apologies to you and yours.
Post by David Schramm
I have a sanding disk on my drill press
too! However, I have no doubt which is faster or more efficient.
That's great. Good for you.
I have a Timesaver, and that's what I was referring to.
Post by David Schramm
Perhaps the truth is you didn't have room in your shop or 3 phase
power to hook up Oribe's old sander, but to claim "your" disk method
is faster is pure bullshit!
I have room in my shop and yes I have Phase 3 power. Since you are an expert
on the Oribe thickness sander that I had how about describing it? Do you
know who made it?
No I have no interest in who made Oribe's Thickness sander.
However, I would advise you to quit with this drill press disk sander
bullshit and get a professional set up...... who knows David you might
double your operation and make 100 guitars a year.
Post by David Schramm
I've talked to Brune too. He never gave me the impression he does
a FP in one day. As a matter of fact he told me his son does it. Next
time I talk to him I'll ask him about it.
You should, Marshall did a demo of it at the last GAL. I was there. I don't
use his method, I prefer mine.
Woopy fuckin do! BTW, what's a GAL?
Post by David Schramm
Huckelberry, what you call a French Polish and what I call a
French polish sound like two different things.... lets be clear about
that. Anyone can smeer some shellac on a guitar and pronounce it
done.
I do not smear it on and pronounce it done. That is another one of your
provocative rumors.
I never said you did.
Post by David Schramm
The problem is weeks later when the finish shrinks into the
wood. Without giving away the " secret Method" how do you compesate
for speeding up solvent evaporation and shrinkage, or don't you care?
I take care of that problem with my process. Do you pore fill? I fill the
pores before I start the FP process. Pore filling is not the same as French
polishing. That is self explanitory.
Of course I fill the pores you idiot! I know the difference between
filling the pores and French polish..... who do you think you talking
to, one of your on line guitar making amateurs? Quit with your
bullshit!
Post by David Schramm
My finishes are like glass, and that takes time, no way to spin
that one. If you do a quick mat finish then that's something else
entirely and most definitely should not be called a French polish.
Sorry, I do not do a quick matte finish. My finish is a glass smooth high
gloss finish. What kind of pad material are you using?
An eraser, and cheese cloth!
Post by David Schramm
The right kind of micro fiber cloth makes a huge difference in the process. It has >to be a
certain weave to get the best results.
Bullshit! You can't escape the simple fact that regardless of how
much finish you put on it needs time to cure.... otherwise your glass
like finish will shrink into the wood. Again your idea of a FP is way
different than mine.
Post by David Schramm
Lets see...... You've developed a method to FP in one day,<<
I have my variation of the FP one day method. I give credit to the person
who shared the method with me. All I did was tweak it so it fit my style.
I guess you get what you pay for!
Post by David Schramm
you make 46 guitars a year and sell the majority of them through one store
No, that is another provocative Thames Rumor. It is sad that you have to
stoop so low as to start rumors about other builders.
Help me add up the numbers here Huckleberry.....
Post by David Schramm
Raptor said.
I'm impressed. Not allowing for any vacation weeks, that's a
production of 36-48 lattice instruments a year plus however many
traditionally braced instruments you make. Do you work alone?
David said.
Yes, I work alone. I only make 10-20 traditional instruments. I also build a
lot of custom instruments that are one off unique instruments that
incorporate a lot of the customers unique ideas
Huckelberry,you also said you make "4 guitars a month with
ease"....... 4 times 12 = 46.
Post by David Schramm
You claim no one
can detect an audible difference between CF Aussie style guitars and
traditional guitars.
No, I said CF used in guitars. That can mean either traditional or lattice.
Get your facts and stop the provocative rumors.
The thread topic was Ausse guitars namely Redgate, Smallman,
Marty etc. Thread topic was not any little scrape of carbon fibre used
in a guitar. You framed a trick question to your advantage. How was I
to know, how you qualified carbon fibre used in guitars.... that's why
I declined your silly challenge.
Post by David Schramm
You also claim non human tolerances in the building of your instruments
A tolerance of 0.0005" is not non-human. The majority of parts I make are
within 0.001" which isn't that small. I rarely need to use 0.0005", but it
can be done easily by a skilled craftsman.
I guess your the man!
Post by David Schramm
Post by Tashi
...... You spin some pretty good tales,
Huckleberry.<<<
I really don't care if you can't do what I do. You should do your own thing.
I found what works for me and you found what works for you.
You spread a lot of rumors. Get the facts before you start saying things
that are not true about people.
I spread no rumors. You are perfectly able to set the record
straight. Vague statements concerning your sanding, FP and output of
guitars, leave people free to interpret for themselves. Instead of
your vague bullshit, you might be more forthcoming with your facts, or
better yet, don't say anything at all unless you can back it up! You
seem to enjoy projecting an air of mystery about your so called
methods, and in the same breath criticize others who you say do this.
Which is it Huckleberry?
MT
Post by David Schramm
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
John O
2007-08-22 22:21:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Huckelberry,you also said you make "4 guitars a month with
ease"....... 4 times 12 = 46.
Ummm...that's 48.

I can't decide if all this public bitch-slapping is entertaining or
annoying.
Tashi
2007-08-22 22:45:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by John O
Post by Tashi
Huckelberry,you also said you make "4 guitars a month with
ease"....... 4 times 12 = 46.
Ummm...that's 48.
I can't decide if all this public bitch-slapping is entertaining or
annoying.
Well John it seems you just bitch slapped me! Do you feel like a
man?
MT
Larry Deack
2007-08-22 23:29:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by John O
Post by Tashi
4 times 12 = 46.
Ummm...that's 48.
I can't decide if all this public
bitch-slapping is entertaining or
annoying.
It's just too easy a target!

It's a RMCG tradition to continue loopy posts until someone passes
out from lack of oxygen in the rarefied atmosphere created by all the
hot air.

Here's a sum of his posts to David:

Huckleberry... you idiot!...Bullshit!...your vague bullshit
Do you sometimes see things in the dark?
Huckleberry


That adds up to one angry Buddhist. No wonder he thinks science has
nothing o offer him... I think he's right on that count.
David Schramm
2007-08-23 02:41:07 UTC
Permalink
Wow, MT. You have a wild imagination. I think you would make a great author
of fiction novels, but if I were you I would stick to making great guitars.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Steve Perry
2007-08-23 02:59:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Wow, MT. You have a wild imagination. I think you would make a great author
of fiction novels, but if I were you I would stick to making great guitars.
Nah, fiction has to sound more real than that ...
--
Steve

http://themanwhonevermissed.blogspot.com/
Larry Deack
2007-08-23 03:22:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Perry
Nah, fiction has to sound more real than that ...
I don't know about that. There have been quite a few people in this
NG who have fallen for various fictitious names who have said some
pretty insane things.

Something like WikiScanner for this NG might be interesting.
Andrew Schulman
2007-08-23 04:25:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Perry
Post by David Schramm
Wow, MT. You have a wild imagination. I think you would make a great author
of fiction novels, but if I were you I would stick to making great guitars.
Nah, fiction has to sound more real than that ...
RMCG-ers,

Buy and read Steve Perry's book, "The Musashi Flex". It's the best
sci-fi/martial arts/classical guitar book with sex in it ever written.

Andrew
Tashi
2007-08-23 05:46:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Wow, MT. You have a wild imagination. I think you would make a great author
of fiction novels, but if I were you I would stick to making great guitars.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
What part of my imagination are you talking about? The part that
told you how a Tornavoz works, how putting batteries on top of a
guitar or adding weight is not an efficient way to lower the
resonance..... or that there actually does exist a controversy
concerning Carbon fiber, and traditional guitars? Or perhaps
questioning your claim to French polish a guitar in 5 hours? Or
adding up the info you provided on how many guitars you make a
year.....

Was it my imagination at work when you lied and said I claimed to be
able to hear any carbon fiber in a guitar, your words not mine. If you
lie to yourself Huckleberry, you lie to the world.
MT
David Schramm
2007-08-23 06:09:05 UTC
Permalink
Koo, koo, Koo, koo
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Tashi
2007-08-23 06:20:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Koo, koo, Koo, koo
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
Yes most evangelicals are!
MT
David Schramm
2007-08-21 23:14:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
I'm impressed. Not allowing for any vacation weeks, that's a
production of 36-48 lattice instruments a year plus however many
traditionally braced instruments you make. Do you work alone?
Yes, I work alone. I only make 10-20 traditional instruments. I also build a
lot of custom instruments that are one off unique instruments that
incorporate a lot of the customers unique ideas. I just finished up some
research on my all time favorite guitar maker (Yo, MT, this is my guitar
"hero" not Smallman), Miguel Rodriguez and family. I had Bill Kanengiser's
Rod in my shop for a week a few years ago and I made some detail drawings. I
should have bought it when it was available. That was one of the best
guitars I have ever played. Bill recently re-acquired that guitar. It is on
one of his videos. The playability of that guitar is incredible, but I think
that is due to the remarkable work of Yuris Zeltins. The sound and feel of
the Rod I just finished is much like Bill's guitar and I'm currently
building one for myself that I might have done in time for GFA.In fact I
just started it today.This morning I bent the sides, built the back, built
the neck and I'm about to go inlay the rosette in the top after I send this
message. I use the large bass guitar frets that Pepe Romero likes as well
as the ones that were in Bill's Rod. I also love the longer 664mm scale.
When set up properly, for me, it is just as easy to play as a 650 but I
like the tone of the longer scale guitars much better.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Tashi
2007-08-21 22:05:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Post by Tashi
I'm sure as you go from the extreme of the Smallman design, to a
traditional braced guitar with _some_ carbon fiber in the braces it
becomes harder to detect, and I'm sure that was part of your trickery.
MT I have no desire to trick you as you had hoped. Just wanted to see if you
would prove to everyone that you can listen to any guitar and tell if it had
CF or not as you claimed. I was trying to prove you right but I failed.
First of all Huckleberry, I never claimed to be able to " listen to
any guitar" and tell if it had CF in it. You project much onto
others! Christ, I can't tell cedar from spruce sometimes. Can you
quote me saying I can tell the difference? I think not, so your
hypothesis of proving me right is a false premise. Do you sometimes
see things in the dark?
Post by David Schramm
Post by Tashi
I will tell you this, post a traditional guitar, ( identify it) and
post a Smallman ( your hero) and I will tell you which is which.
I hate to burst your bubble, but Smallman never has been my "hero."
Believe me David you didn't burst my bubble, I really don't think
about you as much as you seem to think I do.
Post by David Schramm
I'll post the sound samples later today. This should be fun!
Post by Tashi
BTW, is that a brand new Schramm CF lattice guitar for sale at
Trilogy? I'm shocked no one has snaped that one up...... hasn't it
been there for about a year or so?
I hate to burst your bubble twice in one post, I just delivered two guitars
to Trilogy and two more about to be delivered in 2 weeks. All of them are
sold and are on Trilogy's wait list for my guitars.... and no it hasn't been
there for a year. I sell three to four lattice guitars a month. John keeps
that guitar for people to try out, then he orders guitars from me. I asked
him if I could have it back but he needed to have something in stock. If he
didn't do it that way he wouldn't have anything to show people because they
sell as fast as I can make them.
Good for you my son, I was beginning to worry. I'm curious why you
would choose to sell so many guitars per month through a dealer. They
must take 20 to 25% leaving you with much less, very strange.
Marketing strateegery?
MT
Post by David Schramm
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
David Schramm
2007-08-21 23:54:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
I'm curious why you
would choose to sell so many guitars per month through a dealer. They
must take 20 to 25% leaving you with much less, very strange.
Marketing strateegery?
John Silva( http://trilogyguitars.com ), Ryan and I are good friends and
probably the only dealer I will work with. Plus he has a cool business
location. We can go to his shop, then walk across the street to the beach
and swim, surf, body board, skateboard, bicycle etc. He does a lot of
marketing for me and is able to get my guitars in a lot of pro players hands
which frees my time up to build guitars. I love it and don't mind giving him
his "cut." The deal is, he sells the guitars at the same price I do. I don't
want dealers selling my guitars for more than I do. We're like good buds
more than "business partners". There are other dealers who wanted my guitars
but it was too "business." Plus, if he has a guitar I want in my collection
I can trade him some guitars for them. :-) He doesn't make you feel like you
got ripped off or that you paid too much for a guitar like some dealers do.
Nor is he arrogant like other dealers.

MT, if you ever decide to sell through a dealer, I highly recommend John
Silva and Ryan at http://trilogyguitars.com
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
marKo
2007-08-22 10:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Have you uploaded those samples?
i would like to take a look.

marKo.
Post by David Schramm
Michael,
I have an idea, how about I upload 25 samples of guitars with and without
CF. If you can score 100% then you are right. If you can't ,well, then
you're full of crap. Are you up to the challenge?
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Andrew Schulman
2007-08-22 20:49:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
I have an idea, how about I upload 25 samples of guitars with and without
CF. If you can score 100% then you are right. If you can't ,well, then
you're full of crap. Are you up to the challenge?
Someone else said they would be interested in hearing the samples and
I would too. Not as a competitive thing, I would just like to see
what differences I hear or don't hear, this would be a good
opportunity to explore this aspect of materials.

Thanks,
Andrew
David Schramm
2007-08-22 20:54:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Schulman
Someone else said they would be interested in hearing the samples and
I would too. Not as a competitive thing, I would just like to see
what differences I hear or don't hear, this would be a good
opportunity to explore this aspect of materials.
Ok, I'll work on it tonight.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Andrew Schulman
2007-08-22 21:03:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Ok, I'll work on it tonight.
Thank you!

Andrew
marKo
2007-08-22 23:31:22 UTC
Permalink
thank you!
Post by David Schramm
Post by Andrew Schulman
Someone else said they would be interested in hearing the samples and
I would too. Not as a competitive thing, I would just like to see
what differences I hear or don't hear, this would be a good
opportunity to explore this aspect of materials.
Ok, I'll work on it tonight.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Raptor
2007-08-23 02:53:23 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 22, 2:54 pm, "David Schramm" <***@comcast.net> wrote:

Ok, I'll work on it tonight.

Thanks, David. I couldn't find the discography on your site, but I
look forward to being able to hear some examples of artists playing
your instruments, of whatever design.

mark
David Schramm
2007-08-23 05:08:51 UTC
Permalink
Maestro Dankel,

Here are some sound samples:

Flamenco Guitar:
http://schrammguitars.com/farrucas.mp3

http://schrammguitars.com/campanillero.mp3

Lattice guitar:
With Cedar lattice: http://schrammguitars.com/latticemp3.mp3

With balsa/cf latice: http://schrammguitars.com/aconquija.mp3
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
Tashi
2007-08-23 06:05:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Schramm
Maestro Dankel,
Flamenco Guitar:http://schrammguitars.com/farrucas.mp3
http://schrammguitars.com/campanillero.mp3
With Cedar lattice:http://schrammguitars.com/latticemp3.mp3
With balsa/cf latice:http://schrammguitars.com/aconquija.mp3
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CAhttp://schrammguitars.comhttp://onlineapprentice.com
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Maestro Dankel asked for
recordings of professionals who use your guitars on CD's.

I know good flamenco, and that my friend was pretty piss poor. You
should visit New Mexico sometime, best flamenco players in the
country.

BTW, the recordings of yourself ( I'm assuming it is you, don't want
to start any rumors you know ) playing both cedar guitars seem to my
ear plunky and recorded too hot. I don't think you do justice to your
guitars with sound samples like those.
MT
David Schramm
2007-08-23 06:25:29 UTC
Permalink
Order Ted Owens' cd off his web site. If you want one of Trent Howard or
Ruben Delgado send me a check for $20 and I'll send you one.
--
David Schramm
Clovis, CA
http://schrammguitars.com
http://onlineapprentice.com
John Nguyen
2007-08-19 06:59:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin
Don't mean to insult any fans but why would anyone want to sound like
Ana???????
Post by LarryATahoe
Buy it, you'll
sound like Ana.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I wouldn't want to sound like Ana. My voice already sounds funny
enough, being a man.
Cheers,

John
a***@gmail.com
2007-08-19 21:24:49 UTC
Permalink
2005 RedgateClassicalGuitarFor Sale
A new model similar to this sells for about $10,500. Will sell for
$8500 OBO. Good condition except top is scratched. A fine luthier told
me the scratches could be fixed or remediated for $400 to $500.
This is the same type ofguitarAna Vidovic plays. Buy it, you'll
sound like Ana.
larryaguitar.com
Do you know of any other players that play redgate guitars? I wonder
if all of his guitars are as good as the one Ana Vidovic has?

Cheers
www.australianguitarist.com
LarryATahoe
2007-08-22 00:11:25 UTC
Permalink
Redgate guitars of recent vintage sound pretty similar. I would
venture to say mine sounds better than Ana Vidovic's, because I am the
only person in the world who has figured out the secret string
combination that sounds best on that guitar.

Some guitar purists don't like the sound of a redgate. There are two
resons for this. First, it sounds a little different than a
traditional guitar. And it is a little monochromatic if not played
with the utmost delicacy. Second, I am convinced this guitar requires
a different right hand playing technique than a traditional guitar.
It's tricky, and my hands get sore from it. However, once mastered, it
is possible to get quite a varied palette of sound.

Opposed to guitar purists, however, are audiences. People all the way
from musical laymen to highly accomplished orchestral and choral
musicians have told me that this guitar, in my hands anyway, sounds
"absolutely incredible," "amazing tone," "best guitar they've ever
heard." Two reasons for this as well: 1), they are not used to
discriminating guitar tones; 2) a redgate guitar sounds better 20, 30,
50 feet away than it does right in front of it. Therefore it is an
excellent guitar for acoustic concerts in large halls. I have played
outside in front of a very discriminating audience used to hearing
world-class stirng quartets, etc., and they loved the sound of the
guitar. In a crowd of 200 people outside with no amplification
everyone there said they heard it just fine. There is something about
the quality of sound from a redgate that projects like no other. Even
though Smallmans may be somewhat louder, even Smallmans do not project
like redgates.

The negatives for me are that at least in my opinion, and in the
opinion of some other well known guitarists I have privately spoken
to, there are inherent problems with the neck and fingerboard designs
of redgates and many other Australian guitars. It is a constant
struggle to keep the strings, fretboard, neck and intonation in
balance and this contributes to difficulty of performance compared to
a really well modern designed traditional guitar. I have also found it
is very difficult to record a redgate and get it to sound like it does
in live performance.

If everyone is going to jump on a bandwagon criticizing aussie guitars
though, I may just keep mine and keep spending more and more money on
it until I am satisfied with the neck and playability. I can't really
afford two expensive guitars, but if I could I would probably keep the
redgate and buy another trad guitar.

Even Marc Teicholz, who in my opinion is in the running with Ricardo
Cobo and a few others to be master and king of guitar in all
universes, told me that I get a great tone and excellent sound from
this guitar.

So, the redgate to me is like a very expensive, demanding, high
maintenance, troublesome, merciless and unforgiving diva of a woman
who once in a while dresses up and sings pretty.

LarryA
Post by a***@gmail.com
Do you know of any other players that play redgate guitars? I wonder
if all of his guitars are as good as the one Ana Vidovic has?
Cheerswww.australianguitarist.com
Raptor
2007-08-22 00:38:36 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 21, 6:11 pm, LarryATahoe <***@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"So, the Redgate to me is like a very expensive, demanding, high
maintenance, troublesome, merciless and unforgiving diva of a
woman..."

Um, are there any who aren't? You just described every woman I know
in San Francisco!

mark
Andrew Schulman
2007-08-22 01:00:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
"So, the Redgate to me is like a very expensive, demanding, high
maintenance, troublesome, merciless and unforgiving diva of a
woman..."
Um, are there any who aren't? You just described every woman I know
in San Francisco!
Mark-

You should move to NY, where the women are a great value, undemanding,
low maintenance, trouble-free, merciful, and forgiving down to earth
ladies.

And Larry, I thought you were trying to SELL this guitar.

Andrew
LarryATahoe
2007-08-22 01:08:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Schulman
You should move to NY, where the women are a great value, undemanding,
low maintenance, trouble-free, merciful, and forgiving down to earth
ladies.
And Larry, I thought you were trying to SELL this guitar.
Andrew
Hi Andrew,

Well, I did say that many audiences think it's the best guitar they've
ever heard. That's a pretty good selling point. Like I said, since
nobody offered, I might just keep it out of spite -- AND the audience
reponse I get!

LarryA
Raptor
2007-08-22 01:09:26 UTC
Permalink
Andrew, while that may be true, it's even more so where I now live in
New Mexico, and the overhead is much, much lower here. Of course, so
is the cultural life, unless you're in Santa Fe like Michael Thames.
I love NYC, as a place to visit. I don't think I have the stamina to
make it a home.

mark
Andrew Schulman
2007-08-22 02:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raptor
I don't think I have the stamina to
make it a home.
Yeah, it's the proverbial tough town. Fortunately a drive an hour or
more north brings you into beautiful countryside; we are heading up
there with the dogs on Thursday for a week of some R&R. Our dream is
to have someday a little cottage with some land that has a pond for
the dogs to swim in, one of these days...

Andrew
John Rethorst
2007-08-22 03:51:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by LarryATahoe
there are inherent problems with the neck and fingerboard designs
of redgates and many other Australian guitars. It is a constant
struggle to keep the strings, fretboard, neck and intonation in
balance
Why? Doesn't any competent luthier from any continent know how to build a neck
these days?
Post by LarryATahoe
So, the redgate to me is like a very expensive, demanding, high
maintenance, troublesome, merciless and unforgiving diva of a woman
who once in a while dresses up and sings pretty.
That's the best kind.
--
John Rethorst
jrethorst at post dot com
LarryATahoe
2007-08-22 04:37:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Rethorst
Why? Doesn't any competent luthier from any continent know how to build a neck
these days?
--
John Rethorst
jrethorst at post dot com
I only offer you my personal interpretation and experience, which to
which some others agree, some others don't. Other than that, I'm not
going to get caught up in the endless dialectic that goes on here.

I would like to see if the new Thames guitars are as good as some say,
and I've contacted Michael about that.

LarryA
Tashi
2007-08-22 04:50:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by LarryATahoe
So, the redgate to me is like a very expensive, demanding, high
maintenance, troublesome, merciless and unforgiving diva of a woman
who once in a while dresses up and sings pretty.
LarryA
Larry it's none of my business, but I think you are an enabler. I
would leave her high and dry. All of the warning signs can be found
on the first date. Frigid women are really no fun to play with.
MT
Post by LarryATahoe
Post by a***@gmail.com
Do you know of any other players that play redgate guitars? I wonder
if all of his guitars are as good as the one Ana Vidovic has?
Cheerswww.australianguitarist.com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Alcibiades
2007-08-22 17:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by LarryATahoe
Opposed to guitar purists, however, are audiences. People all the way
from musical laymen to highly accomplished orchestral and choral
musicians have told me that this guitar, in my hands anyway, sounds
"absolutely incredible," "amazing tone," "best guitar they've ever
heard."
Then again you're most likely not to hear a thing from those who think
it sounds bad.
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