Discussion:
Shearer 2
(too old to reply)
Greg Flanders
2003-07-09 15:10:05 UTC
Permalink
I just received a copy of Alan Shearer's Classical Guitar Technique Volume
2, from the first edition (not from Mel Bay), and realized that I am
missing the middle section, pages 89-104.

This is especially irritating because it is exactly this section that I
was looking forward to working with, that is, his explanations on how to
move up the fingerboard. The version I have has doubled the pages from
74 through 89. Most frusterating.

My question is, are there any kind hearted souls out there who would be
willing to scan/photocopy the pages for me? I am in Paris, France; and
finding a copy of this out of print volume is very difficult.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Gregory Flanders
Toby
2003-07-09 17:50:48 UTC
Permalink
Is there any difference between editions? I mean, considerable differences?

Toby

"Greg Flanders" <***@arthur.avalon.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.HPP.3.96.1030709095918.17344B-***@arthur.avalon.net...
> I just received a copy of Alan Shearer's Classical Guitar Technique Volume
> 2, from the first edition (not from Mel Bay), and realized that I am
> missing the middle section, pages 89-104.
>
> This is especially irritating because it is exactly this section that I
> was looking forward to working with, that is, his explanations on how to
> move up the fingerboard. The version I have has doubled the pages from
> 74 through 89. Most frusterating.
>
> My question is, are there any kind hearted souls out there who would be
> willing to scan/photocopy the pages for me? I am in Paris, France; and
> finding a copy of this out of print volume is very difficult.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Gregory Flanders
>
Lutemann
2003-07-09 22:59:28 UTC
Permalink
In article <Pine.HPP.3.96.1030709095918.17344B-***@arthur.avalon.net>, Greg
Flanders <***@arthur.avalon.net> writes:

>I just received a copy of Alan Shearer's Classical Guitar Technique Volume
>2, from the first edition (not from Mel Bay), and realized that I am
>missing the middle section, pages 89-104.
>
>This is especially irritating because it is exactly this section that I
>was looking forward to working with, that is, his explanations on how to
>move up the fingerboard. The version I have has doubled the pages from


The section you are talking about is perhaps the best method for learning the
upper positions available. I studied this section with Aaron Shearer back in
the 60s. You can order the book at the address below. It's not that expensive.

http://chordmelody.com/newpage9.htm
William Jennings
2003-07-10 15:32:57 UTC
Permalink
If you are in Paris, why in the name of Dog would you need Shearer's
methods? You are surrounded by some top notch
players and teachers. Shearer had most the guitarist in the USA ,who
couldn't think for themselves, hung up on free stroke
and rest stroke for the better part of the 70's and 80's Some of them are
still not over it as can be seen right here on rmcg.

Man, it's like me trying to learn how to BBQ from a French cookbook. :-)

doc



"Greg Flanders" <***@arthur.avalon.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.HPP.3.96.1030709095918.17344B-***@arthur.avalon.net...
> I just received a copy of Alan Shearer's Classical Guitar Technique Volume
> 2, from the first edition (not from Mel Bay), and realized that I am
> missing the middle section, pages 89-104.
>
> This is especially irritating because it is exactly this section that I
> was looking forward to working with, that is, his explanations on how to
> move up the fingerboard. The version I have has doubled the pages from
> 74 through 89. Most frusterating.
>
> My question is, are there any kind hearted souls out there who would be
> willing to scan/photocopy the pages for me? I am in Paris, France; and
> finding a copy of this out of print volume is very difficult.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Gregory Flanders
>
doug
2003-07-10 23:12:35 UTC
Permalink
> Man, it's like me trying to learn how to BBQ from a French cookbook. :-)
>
> doc
>
>its easy, all you have to do is pile up the charcoal open up the
french cookbook, rip out some pages, crumple and place under the
charcoal, and lite.
doug
William Jennings
2003-07-10 23:47:33 UTC
Permalink
Hey Hogrider, Next time you do good steaks find a bottle of red wine of
moderate quality seasoned with a package of crab boil. Marinade overnight,
then scrape herbs and seeds off and cook..... but not too much, over your
French Fire. If you have access to seasoned hickory, oak, or fruitwood use
it instead of prepared charcoal. Real wood burns cleaner and lends a
wonderful aroma and taste. Throw a handful of rosemary on the fire while
the steaks are cooking.


I will admit to learning how to cook fish soup from the French. :-)

Che doc


"doug" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@posting.google.com...
> > Man, it's like me trying to learn how to BBQ from a French cookbook. :-)
> >
> > doc
> >
> >its easy, all you have to do is pile up the charcoal open up the
> french cookbook, rip out some pages, crumple and place under the
> charcoal, and lite.
> doug
doug
2003-07-11 14:19:58 UTC
Permalink
"William Jennings" <***@texas.net> wrote in message news:<***@texas.net>...
> Hey Hogrider, Next time you do good steaks find a bottle of red wine of
> moderate quality seasoned with a package of crab boil. Marinade overnight,
> then scrape herbs and seeds off and cook..... but not too much, over your
> French Fire. If you have access to seasoned hickory, oak, or fruitwood use
> it instead of prepared charcoal. Real wood burns cleaner and lends a
> wonderful aroma and taste. Throw a handful of rosemary on the fire while
> the steaks are cooking.
>
>
> I will admit to learning how to cook fish soup from the French. :-)
>
> Che doc
>
> doc, much to the dismay of my son I went propane a year ago. I usually marinade my cheaper steaks and will leave the good ones up to you rich guys. lol
doug
Espiritu Santo
2003-07-11 20:10:18 UTC
Permalink
"Jacques Moran" <***@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b%APa.80$***@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com


> you forgot the blue cheese.

You forgot the diseased goose liver.:-)

doc




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William Jennings
2003-07-10 22:55:19 UTC
Permalink
"Jacques Moran" <***@aol.com> wrote in message
news:EwkPa.21$***@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> "William Jennings" <***@texas.net> wrote in
> news:***@texas.net:
>
> > Shearer had most the guitarist in the USA ,who
> > couldn't think for themselves, hung up on free stroke
> > and rest stroke for the better part of the 70's and 80's
>
> I don't know about strokes, maybe ADM (aim directed movement), memorizing
> solfege syllables, yoga-like visualation exercises, right hand micro-
> management, upbeat phrasing principles, etc, etc.

Fundamental musicianship. My point is the free - rest stroke issues and
looking back, knowing...... the best studies are those that _we write for
ourselves_!

Mr. A. Shearer did write better than anyone at that time about How To
Study. I do not take that away from him
but the ideas you mentioned above came much later than the Red Book in
question. Solfege, mental training,
upbeat phrasing principles had been addressed before by violinist, pianist,
ect, years before. When Jose Tomas who was teaching at the Oscar Espla
Conservatory, Alicante, Spain, he came and gave a master class in
Washington D.C. 1976 as I recall, Tomas expressed bemusement with most of
the students and their lack of fundamental musicianship, harmony, counting,
solfege and esp. scale playing. This caused quite a stir at the time which
I learned about from an advanced A.S. student. In fact, it was about the
same time that A.S. was having M.B. switch from playing scales rest stroke
to free stroke

> Some of
> > them are still not over it as can be seen right here on rmcg.
> >
>
> I don't think the blowhard your referring to is very representative of
most
> former Shearer students. Most of them (players) are quite capable of
> thinking for themselves and can seperating the good aspects of his
> teaching, like the upper position reading studies the poster inquired
> about, from the rest of it.

I agree, times have changed and they now can be highly selective with
regard to accepting guitar majors at Peabody.
>
> By the way, do you know of any good French upper position reading studies?

Have you looked closely at Dionisio Aguado (Spainish) and François de
Fossa (French). This is what Ida Presti
trained with. The musical level for the guitar in Paris and London (
Europe) is much higher in general than that found in the USA.
www.musiconearth.co.uk/Pages/presti.htm It's about time this got out
there!

I have more specific information concerning teachers and studies in Paris if
you want to contact me privately. I have a young
lady I worked with ( I don't teach on a regular basis) who is in Paris now
for her advanced studies.

doc

>
Lutemann
2003-07-11 02:24:38 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@texas.net>, "William Jennings"
<***@texas.net> writes:

> In fact, it was about the
>same time that A.S. was having M.B. switch from playing scales rest stroke
>to free stroke

Shearer has always (and I assume still does) recommend that students learn
scales both rest stroke and free stroke, i and m, m and a.
*****************************************************
Kent Murdick
Free Guitar Instruction CD/Video: Go to http://stringdancer.com/
and search for Murdick
http://members.aol.com/lutemann/guitar.html
Jacques Moran
2003-07-11 15:44:45 UTC
Permalink
>
> Fundamental musicianship.

My point was only that in the studio I witnessed, the one right before his
retirement, Shearer students were hung up on at lot of things besides just
rest and free strokes. Fundamental musicianship? Personally, I think that
some of the exercises he imposed on his students, like playing and
solfeging alternate measures of music as a kind of mnemonic litmus test,
went well beyond the scope of fundamental musicianship. And his mantra
"confidence and security", to me, seemed really to have the opposite effect
on a lot of students. But as you said, there is a lot of good in his
methods and I wouldn't want to take that away form him.


My point is the free - rest stroke issues
> and looking back, knowing...... the best studies are those that _we
> write for ourselves_!

Perhaps, if we have the time and the knowledge. Two big if's.


>
> Have you looked closely at Dionisio Aguado (Spainish) and François
> de
> Fossa (French).

I don't know Fossa at all, unfortunately. The Aguado seems to me far out of
the reach of the typical beginner trying to learn to navigate the upper
positions of the guitar for the first time. This is one of the things I
like about the Shearer pedagogy- an honest recgonition of difficulty.

The musical level for the guitar in Paris and London (
> Europe) is much higher in general than that found in the USA.

I'd hope so but you can't really mean to compare two of the worlds cultural
capitals to the amalgamous whole of the US.
Matanya Ophee
2003-07-11 16:22:18 UTC
Permalink
Jacques Moran <***@aol.com> wrote:

>> Have you looked closely at Dionisio Aguado (Spainish) and François
>> de
>> Fossa (French).
>
>I don't know Fossa at all, unfortunately.

Very unfortunate, and quite difficult to correct. De Fossa's
translation of Aguado's 1826 Escuela is only available in facsimile
from Minkoff Reprints. And it is in French, which should not be much
of a problem to someone who calls himself Jacques Moran...:-)

>The Aguado seems to me far out of
>the reach of the typical beginner trying to learn to navigate the upper
>positions of the guitar for the first time. This is one of the things I
>like about the Shearer pedagogy- an honest recgonition of difficulty.

All pedagogies have this honest recognition of difficulty, or they
would not have been constituted in the first place.



Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Jacques Moran
2003-07-11 16:22:13 UTC
Permalink
Matanya Ophee <***@orphee.com> wrote in
news:***@4ax.com:

> All pedagogies have this honest recognition of difficulty, or they
> would not have been constituted in the first place.
>

If you had said "All good pedagogies", I'd be inclined to agree with you.
Matanya Ophee
2003-07-11 16:40:42 UTC
Permalink
Jacques Moran <***@aol.com> wrote:

>Matanya Ophee <***@orphee.com> wrote in
>news:***@4ax.com:
>
>> All pedagogies have this honest recognition of difficulty, or they
>> would not have been constituted in the first place.
>>
>
>If you had said "All good pedagogies", I'd be inclined to agree with you.

I cannot possibly say that, because to do so, would imply that some
pedagogies are good and others are bad. Such an assumption flies in
the face of the notion that a given pedagogy in the hands of an
inspired and compassionate teacher who knows how to teach can produce
results while the same pedagogy in the hands of a pretentious bumbler
who can only act as a page turner is worthless.

There are no good or bad pedagogies. There are only good or bad
teachers.



Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Espiritu Santo
2003-07-11 17:28:45 UTC
Permalink
"Jacques Moran" <***@aol.com> wrote in message


Jacques, I never call myself a teacher and don't pretend to be one.
I don't keep up with the stuff and have little interest in that aspect.
I do know what a great teacher his and had a few among the many I've
seen
over the years.

I have tried to help a few along the way... I never charge for the work
and try to do no damage. I say I'm the teacher of last resort of
diplaced
students. The girl I mention had the music in her so it was easy
working
with her. I have a few rules they must accept.... just like I was
taught.
And lastly, I try to keep my I and my me, out of the damned way.

I make no claims for teaching what so ever.

doc





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Matanya Ophee
2003-07-11 17:35:14 UTC
Permalink
"Espiritu Santo" <***@email.com> wrote:

>and try to do no damage.

That's one rule that would instantly disqualify a lot of so-called
professional teachers. Do No Damage!

Bravo!




Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
Espiritu Santo
2003-07-11 18:27:16 UTC
Permalink
"Matanya Ophee" <***@orphee.com> wrote in message
> Bravo!
>
>

A pink pig in a white suit just flew over the swimming pool!


doc


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Matanya Ophee
2003-07-11 17:31:57 UTC
Permalink
Jacques Moran <***@aol.com> wrote:

>Matanya Ophee <***@orphee.com> wrote in
>news:***@4ax.com:
>
>> I cannot possibly say that, because to do so, would imply that some
>> pedagogies are good and others are bad. Such an assumption flies in
>> the face of the notion that a given pedagogy in the hands of an
>> inspired and compassionate teacher who knows how to teach can produce
>> results while the same pedagogy in the hands of a pretentious bumbler
>> who can only act as a page turner is worthless.
>>
>> There are no good or bad pedagogies. There are only good or bad
>> teachers.
>
>
>I only know that a lot of guitar students I see try to do things that are
>way too hard for them. The results are anything but musical. Is that
>because of the teacher or the method book? Both I think. Many guitar
>methods do the equivilant of teaching long division before simple
>arithmitic. Get a better teacher? I won't argue.

if you won't argue, you must accept the premise that the method book
has nothing to do with what guitar students do or do not do. A teacher
who follows a method blindly, without compensating for the