Discussion:
Bach Cello Suites
(too old to reply)
dofrenzy
2009-10-15 18:38:03 UTC
Permalink
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy. I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were. I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!

Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Matt Faunce
2009-10-15 21:22:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
I prefer it to simply be transposed to A major.
Track 5 http://www.myspace.com/matthewjohnfaunce

Matt
David Raleigh Arnold
2009-10-15 21:37:17 UTC
Permalink
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse buy.
I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music section,
and there they were. I was not actually all that familiar with the
Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites? Preferred
key for the first movement of the first suite (the super- popular
Prelude from BWV 1007).
Preferred key? A major, with drop D 6th. Regards, daveA
--
For beginners: very easy guitar music, solos, duets, exercises. Early
intermediate guitar solos. One best scale set for all guitarists.
http://www.openguitar.com/scalescomparison.html ::: plus new and
better chord and arpeggio exercises. http://www.openguitar.com
Tashi
2009-10-15 22:57:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
I've played many versions, the one I like the most is in E-Flat major
arranged by Clive Titmuss for 13 strings in D minor tuning. You
haven't heard anything until you hear such splendor. Aside from that,
I don't like the stupid drop D tuning that alternates between octaves,
this causes the prelude to start off to heavy.

I've played Stanley's arrangement and like it the most for six
strings. The prelude is slightly more difficult to play, but the rest
of the movements in the suite are far superior than other arrangements
I've played.
Dicerous
2009-10-15 23:20:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
I've played many versions, the one I like the most is in E-Flat major
arranged by Clive Titmuss for 13 strings in D minor tuning.  You
haven't heard anything until you hear such splendor.  Aside from that,
I don't like the stupid drop D tuning that alternates between octaves,
this causes the prelude to start off to heavy.
  I've played Stanley's arrangement and like it the most for six
strings.  The prelude is slightly more difficult to play, but the rest
of the movements in the suite are far superior than other arrangements
I've played.
Stanley is one of the few in this community who actually contributes
(I mean the guitar community in general). He's one of the few people
that have earned their keep and deserve props.

David
William D Clinger
2009-10-15 23:17:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by dofrenzy
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
When I recorded it in G major, Johann Sebastian Bach
requested I remove the recording from the World Wide
Web [1].

Will


[1] Johann Sebastian Bach. Posted to rmcg, 7 November 2005.
Ivan
2009-10-16 20:02:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
for the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
Dicerous
2009-10-16 22:00:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?

David
Ivan
2009-10-16 22:50:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
Dicerous
2009-10-17 04:58:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh? If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that. Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.


David
Dicerous
2009-10-17 05:02:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh?  If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that.  Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
Who is *that guy* anyways? Stanley? I've already said Stanley can be
my master. He's not a better player than me, but he's without a doubt
a better teacher. I could learn alot from him. If you're talking
Matt Faunce, we're talking apples and oranges. I don't know who IVAN
is....you might be way better than me. If you are I condemn you to
the bowels of hell! I've already said that Alain is a very good
player, he underestimates himself.


David
Douglas Seth
2009-10-17 12:33:53 UTC
Permalink
David,
If this is true that you play as well as Stanley, you are without
question one of the better players on the planet. A question I have
been wondering for a while. Why don't you use your real, full name
instead of hiding behind "Dicerous"? I am sure you have a lot to
share.

Doug
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh?  If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that.  Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
Who is *that guy* anyways?  Stanley?  I've already said Stanley can be
my master.  He's not a better player than me, but he's without a doubt
a better teacher.  I could learn alot from him.  If you're talking
Matt Faunce, we're talking apples and oranges.  I don't know who IVAN
is....you might be way better than me.  If you are I condemn you to
the bowels of hell!  I've already said that Alain is a very good
player, he underestimates himself.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Dicerous
2009-10-17 14:13:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
If this is true that you play as well as Stanley, you are without
question one of the better players on the planet. A question I have
been wondering for a while.  Why don't you use your real, full name
instead of hiding behind "Dicerous"?  I am sure you have a lot to
share.
Doug
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh?  If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that.  Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
Who is *that guy* anyways?  Stanley?  I've already said Stanley can be
my master.  He's not a better player than me, but he's without a doubt
a better teacher.  I could learn alot from him.  If you're talking
Matt Faunce, we're talking apples and oranges.  I don't know who IVAN
is....you might be way better than me.  If you are I condemn you to
the bowels of hell!  I've already said that Alain is a very good
player, he underestimates himself.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Good lord, you people are so crazy-off-the-scale.

David
Douglas Seth
2009-10-17 19:06:46 UTC
Permalink
No, David, I'm not crazy. That is a bullshit deflection from the
issue. I think if you make a claim as lofty as the one you made
(which I would have to hear you to believe that you are even in
someone like SY's league, let alone as good of a player as SY), you
should let everyone know exactly who you are. To you credit, you
did. You have my respect for that. Of course, I am not just talking
about technique. Technique I would believe you might have virtuoso
chops. I find it hard to believe that your interpretation skills are
anywhere near SY's. Stanley can say more musically sightreading than
most people can say after hours of practicing. I know, I have seen
him do it many, many times.

Doug
Post by Dicerous
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
If this is true that you play as well as Stanley, you are without
question one of the better players on the planet. A question I have
been wondering for a while.  Why don't you use your real, full name
instead of hiding behind "Dicerous"?  I am sure you have a lot to
share.
Doug
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh?  If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that.  Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
Who is *that guy* anyways?  Stanley?  I've already said Stanley can be
my master.  He's not a better player than me, but he's without a doubt
a better teacher.  I could learn alot from him.  If you're talking
Matt Faunce, we're talking apples and oranges.  I don't know who IVAN
is....you might be way better than me.  If you are I condemn you to
the bowels of hell!  I've already said that Alain is a very good
player, he underestimates himself.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Good lord, you people are so crazy-off-the-scale.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Dicerous
2009-10-17 19:11:53 UTC
Permalink
No, David, I'm not crazy.  That is a bullshit deflection from the
issue.  I think if you make a claim as lofty as the one you made
(which I would have to hear you to believe that you are even in
someone like SY's league, let alone as good of a player as SY), you
should let everyone know exactly who you are.  To you credit, you
did.  You have my respect for that.  Of course, I am not just talking
about technique.  Technique I would believe you might have virtuoso
chops. I find it hard to believe that your interpretation skills are
anywhere near SY's.  Stanley can say more musically sightreading than
most people can say after hours of practicing.  I know, I have seen
him do it many, many times.
Doug
Post by Dicerous
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
If this is true that you play as well as Stanley, you are without
question one of the better players on the planet. A question I have
been wondering for a while.  Why don't you use your real, full name
instead of hiding behind "Dicerous"?  I am sure you have a lot to
share.
Doug
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh?  If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that.  Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
Who is *that guy* anyways?  Stanley?  I've already said Stanley can be
my master.  He's not a better player than me, but he's without a doubt
a better teacher.  I could learn alot from him.  If you're talking
Matt Faunce, we're talking apples and oranges.  I don't know who IVAN
is....you might be way better than me.  If you are I condemn you to
the bowels of hell!  I've already said that Alain is a very good
player, he underestimates himself.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Good lord, you people are so crazy-off-the-scale.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You have a right to your opinion. But don't go overboard thinking
(loftily) that it's veridical. The cg world is so phased by bs pr
that most guitarists have lost their moorings. I disagree with your
appraisal of Stanley's playing, but then at the same time I don't
think Sharon Isbin is that great (doesn't affect her career one
pittance). Likewise, I don't think Stanley's life is affected one
bit. Don't get into a troll match with me please, I'm not in the mood.

David
Douglas Seth
2009-10-17 19:55:02 UTC
Permalink
David,
I wasn't trying to start a troll war with you or anyone else. Was
that a threat? LOL I certainly respect that we have a difference of
opinion. Perhaps, a difference of taste. You would regard John
Williams as first rate musicality? Please explain. By the way, I agree
with you about the pr/politics bit. CGer's are a funny group. If I
was more engaged in boot licking, I am sure my career would be better,
but I can't complain. It is always surprising to me how
confrontational CGer's be with one another. We are such a small
group. You would think we could get along better. My other passion
is grappling/ BJJ and generally, you couldn't meet a more courteous
bunch. I guess you show respect when you have to constantly prove
yourself on the mat. Not to mention, your training partners can break
a limb or choke you unconscience if you piss them off.

Doug
No, David, I'm not crazy.  That is a bullshit deflection from the
issue.  I think if you make a claim as lofty as the one you made
(which I would have to hear you to believe that you are even in
someone like SY's league, let alone as good of a player as SY), you
should let everyone know exactly who you are.  To you credit, you
did.  You have my respect for that.  Of course, I am not just talking
about technique.  Technique I would believe you might have virtuoso
chops. I find it hard to believe that your interpretation skills are
anywhere near SY's.  Stanley can say more musically sightreading than
most people can say after hours of practicing.  I know, I have seen
him do it many, many times.
Doug
Post by Dicerous
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
If this is true that you play as well as Stanley, you are without
question one of the better players on the planet. A question I have
been wondering for a while.  Why don't you use your real, full name
instead of hiding behind "Dicerous"?  I am sure you have a lot to
share.
Doug
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh?  If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that.  Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
Who is *that guy* anyways?  Stanley?  I've already said Stanley can be
my master.  He's not a better player than me, but he's without a doubt
a better teacher.  I could learn alot from him.  If you're talking
Matt Faunce, we're talking apples and oranges.  I don't know who IVAN
is....you might be way better than me.  If you are I condemn you to
the bowels of hell!  I've already said that Alain is a very good
player, he underestimates himself.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Good lord, you people are so crazy-off-the-scale.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You have a right to your opinion.  But don't go overboard thinking
(loftily) that it's veridical.  The cg world is so phased by bs pr
that most guitarists have lost their moorings.  I disagree with your
appraisal of Stanley's playing, but then at the same time I don't
think Sharon Isbin is that great (doesn't affect her career one
pittance).  Likewise, I don't think Stanley's life is affected one
bit. Don't get into a troll match with me please, I'm not in the mood.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Dicerous
2009-10-17 20:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
I wasn't trying to start a troll war with you or anyone else.  Was
that a threat? LOL I certainly respect that we have a difference of
opinion.  Perhaps, a difference of taste.  You would regard John
Williams as first rate musicality? Please explain. By the way, I agree
with you about the pr/politics bit.  CGer's are a funny group.  If I
was more engaged in boot licking, I am sure my career would be better,
but I can't complain.  It is always surprising to me how
confrontational CGer's be with one another.  We are such a small
group.  You would think we could get along better.  My other passion
is grappling/ BJJ and generally, you couldn't meet a more courteous
bunch.  I guess you show respect when you have to constantly prove
yourself on the mat.  Not to mention, your training partners can break
a limb or choke you unconscience if you piss them off.
Doug
No, David, I'm not crazy.  That is a bullshit deflection from the
issue.  I think if you make a claim as lofty as the one you made
(which I would have to hear you to believe that you are even in
someone like SY's league, let alone as good of a player as SY), you
should let everyone know exactly who you are.  To you credit, you
did.  You have my respect for that.  Of course, I am not just talking
about technique.  Technique I would believe you might have virtuoso
chops. I find it hard to believe that your interpretation skills are
anywhere near SY's.  Stanley can say more musically sightreading than
most people can say after hours of practicing.  I know, I have seen
him do it many, many times.
Doug
Post by Dicerous
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
If this is true that you play as well as Stanley, you are without
question one of the better players on the planet. A question I have
been wondering for a while.  Why don't you use your real, full name
instead of hiding behind "Dicerous"?  I am sure you have a lot to
share.
Doug
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh?  If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that.  Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
Who is *that guy* anyways?  Stanley?  I've already said Stanley can be
my master.  He's not a better player than me, but he's without a doubt
a better teacher.  I could learn alot from him.  If you're talking
Matt Faunce, we're talking apples and oranges.  I don't know who IVAN
is....you might be way better than me.  If you are I condemn you to
the bowels of hell!  I've already said that Alain is a very good
player, he underestimates himself.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Good lord, you people are so crazy-off-the-scale.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You have a right to your opinion.  But don't go overboard thinking
(loftily) that it's veridical.  The cg world is so phased by bs pr
that most guitarists have lost their moorings.  I disagree with your
appraisal of Stanley's playing, but then at the same time I don't
think Sharon Isbin is that great (doesn't affect her career one
pittance).  Likewise, I don't think Stanley's life is affected one
bit. Don't get into a troll match with me please, I'm not in the mood.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Stanley is a very capable player, don't get me wrong. I think it's
probably a differenence of taste. We're inundated with *good
technique* and *good interpretation*, so much so in fact that I almost
go overboard in my demand for people to take risks. I heard
Beethoven's 4th piano concerto last night with the colombia symphony
and a Barbra Roberts. She was great but couldn't live up to the VAST
dynamics of the live hall she was playing in. The louds almost needed
to be distorted from her pounding on the keyboard to match the (great)
orchestra. And she had a sever memory lapse. I know I would have
been MUCH more forgiving if she had taken more chances. That's just
me, I like people who take risks on stage.

David
Tashi
2009-10-17 21:58:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
I wasn't trying to start a troll war with you or anyone else.  Was
that a threat? LOL I certainly respect that we have a difference of
opinion.  Perhaps, a difference of taste.  You would regard John
Williams as first rate musicality? Please explain. By the way, I agree
with you about the pr/politics bit.  CGer's are a funny group.  If I
was more engaged in boot licking, I am sure my career would be better,
but I can't complain.  It is always surprising to me how
confrontational CGer's be with one another.  We are such a small
group.  You would think we could get along better.  My other passion
is grappling/ BJJ and generally, you couldn't meet a more courteous
bunch.  I guess you show respect when you have to constantly prove
yourself on the mat.  Not to mention, your training partners can break
a limb or choke you unconscience if you piss them off.
Doug
No, David, I'm not crazy.  That is a bullshit deflection from the
issue.  I think if you make a claim as lofty as the one you made
(which I would have to hear you to believe that you are even in
someone like SY's league, let alone as good of a player as SY), you
should let everyone know exactly who you are.  To you credit, you
did.  You have my respect for that.  Of course, I am not just talking
about technique.  Technique I would believe you might have virtuoso
chops. I find it hard to believe that your interpretation skills are
anywhere near SY's.  Stanley can say more musically sightreading than
most people can say after hours of practicing.  I know, I have seen
him do it many, many times.
Doug
Post by Dicerous
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
If this is true that you play as well as Stanley, you are without
question one of the better players on the planet. A question I have
been wondering for a while.  Why don't you use your real, full name
instead of hiding behind "Dicerous"?  I am sure you have a lot to
share.
Doug
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh?  If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that.  Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
Who is *that guy* anyways?  Stanley?  I've already said Stanley can be
my master.  He's not a better player than me, but he's without a doubt
a better teacher.  I could learn alot from him.  If you're talking
Matt Faunce, we're talking apples and oranges.  I don't know who IVAN
is....you might be way better than me.  If you are I condemn you to
the bowels of hell!  I've already said that Alain is a very good
player, he underestimates himself.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Good lord, you people are so crazy-off-the-scale.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You have a right to your opinion.  But don't go overboard thinking
(loftily) that it's veridical.  The cg world is so phased by bs pr
that most guitarists have lost their moorings.  I disagree with your
appraisal of Stanley's playing, but then at the same time I don't
think Sharon Isbin is that great (doesn't affect her career one
pittance).  Likewise, I don't think Stanley's life is affected one
bit. Don't get into a troll match with me please, I'm not in the mood.
David- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Stanley is a very capable player, don't get me wrong.  I think it's
probably a differenence of taste.  We're inundated with *good
technique* and *good interpretation*, so much so in fact that I almost
go overboard in my demand for people to take risks.  I heard
Beethoven's 4th piano concerto last night with the colombia symphony
and a Barbra Roberts.  She was great but couldn't live up to the VAST
dynamics of the live hall she was playing in.  The louds almost needed
to be distorted from her pounding on the keyboard to match the (great)
orchestra.  And she had a sever memory lapse.  I know I would have
been MUCH more forgiving if she had taken more chances.  That's just
me, I like people who take risks on stage.
David
Like Yoko Ono?
Hesham
2009-10-18 11:44:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dicerous
We're inundated with *good
technique* and *good interpretation*, so much so in fact that I almost
go overboard in my demand for people to take risks...
... That's just me, I like people who take risks on stage.
What do you mean exactly for a classical guitarist to take risks on
stage? Does it mean programming pieces without practicing them
beforehand? Does it mean adding improvisational sections or changing
written melodies or harmonies on the fly? Does it mean trying to play
faster than usual? - The concept is really not quite clear to me.

Hesham
Dicerous
2009-10-18 12:25:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hesham
Post by Dicerous
We're inundated with *good
technique* and *good interpretation*, so much so in fact that I almost
go overboard in my demand for people to take risks...
... That's just me, I like people who take risks on stage.
What do you mean exactly for a classical guitarist to take risks on
stage? Does it mean programming pieces without practicing them
beforehand? Does it mean adding improvisational sections or changing
written melodies or harmonies on the fly? Does it mean trying to play
faster than usual? - The concept is really not quite clear to me.
Hesham
Hesham,

All those people I mentioned certainly would be able to do all those
things. Unfortunately, *the list* of attributes of a good performer
is long, many of which can't be taught....


David
dsi1
2009-10-18 20:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dicerous
Post by Hesham
Post by Dicerous
We're inundated with *good
technique* and *good interpretation*, so much so in fact that I almost
go overboard in my demand for people to take risks...
... That's just me, I like people who take risks on stage.
What do you mean exactly for a classical guitarist to take risks on
stage? Does it mean programming pieces without practicing them
beforehand? Does it mean adding improvisational sections or changing
written melodies or harmonies on the fly? Does it mean trying to play
faster than usual? - The concept is really not quite clear to me.
Hesham
Hesham,
All those people I mentioned certainly would be able to do all those
things. Unfortunately, *the list* of attributes of a good performer
is long, many of which can't be taught....
You have a problem with not wishing to, or being unable to, explain
simply what you mean when you say things. For a teacher, this is a very
bad thing. You'll lose your credibility and gain your student's mistrust
if you try to defer or redirect their questions. You should be very
careful about this because you'll lose your student the first time you
do this. I'm not trying to dis you - just giving my unsolicited observation.

By a performer taking risk, my assumption is that you mean they'll
select a program that's cutting edge as well as play pieces in a
non-standard manner. My guess is that you mean avant-guard.

One of the first CG guitar concert I went to was a German guy that came
out and played a brilliant Bach piece that knocked my socks off. Later
on he played a piece that utilized a tape recorder and his wife mouthing
nonsensical words. His first piece demonstrated that he had the chops
but the only thing I remember about his avant-guard piece was that his
wife was a dish (if you like strong and sturdy, buxom Germanic types)
and that she wore a simple black dress with a deep cut neckline that I,
as a 17 year old local boy, found to be most memorable.
Post by Dicerous
David
Dicerous
2009-10-18 22:57:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by dsi1
Post by Dicerous
Post by Hesham
Post by Dicerous
We're inundated with *good
technique* and *good interpretation*, so much so in fact that I almost
go overboard in my demand for people to take risks...
... That's just me, I like people who take risks on stage.
What do you mean exactly for a classical guitarist to take risks on
stage? Does it mean programming pieces without practicing them
beforehand? Does it mean adding improvisational sections or changing
written melodies or harmonies on the fly? Does it mean trying to play
faster than usual? - The concept is really not quite clear to me.
Hesham
Hesham,
All those people I mentioned certainly would be able to do all those
things.  Unfortunately,  *the list* of attributes of a good performer
is long, many of which can't be taught....
You have a problem with not wishing to, or being unable to, explain
simply what you mean when you say things. For a teacher, this is a very
bad thing. You'll lose your credibility and gain your student's mistrust
if you try to defer or redirect their questions. You should be very
careful about this because you'll lose your student the first time you
do this. I'm not trying to dis you - just giving my unsolicited observation.
By a performer taking risk, my assumption is that you mean they'll
select a program that's cutting edge as well as play pieces in a
non-standard manner. My guess is that you mean avant-guard.
One of the first CG guitar concert I went to was a German guy that came
out and played a brilliant Bach piece that knocked my socks off. Later
on he played a piece that utilized a tape recorder and his wife mouthing
nonsensical words. His first piece demonstrated that he had the chops
but the only thing I remember about his avant-guard piece was that his
wife was a dish (if you like strong and sturdy, buxom Germanic types)
and that she wore a simple black dress with a deep cut neckline that I,
as a 17 year old local boy, found to be most memorable.
Post by Dicerous
David
David,

As much as I'm flattered that you think I'm teaching you here; I
assumed I wasn't. You're correct that it's better to have *lists* in
these kinds of situations I also like to open up the conversation by
having broad, open questions and statements to start discussion. This
is essential in giving respect to ALL learning styles, not just
*thought-oriented* individuals. ;)


David
Matt Faunce
2009-10-18 13:38:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hesham
Post by Dicerous
We're inundated with *good
technique* and *good interpretation*, so much so in fact that I almost
go overboard in my demand for people to take risks...
... That's just me, I like people who take risks on stage.
What do you mean exactly for a classical guitarist to take risks on
stage? Does it mean programming pieces without practicing them
beforehand? Does it mean adding improvisational sections or changing
written melodies or harmonies on the fly? Does it mean trying to play
faster than usual? - The concept is really not quite clear to me.
Hesham
I could've said the same thing as Dicerous, so I'll give my two
cents.

At the very least, interpret the pieces according to your feelings at
the moment; don't be afraid to stray from the prepared interpretation.
Even though the audience has never heard you play the piece before,
playing according to the moment creates a fresh vibe, conversely, you
will give off a boring vibe if you are afraid to follow your feelings
at the moment. This boringness is what I've been inundated with.

BTW, I'm not altogether not-guilty of this, although, I think I have
my moments. It's a difficult level to achieve, especially
consistently.

Matt
Matt Faunce
2009-10-18 14:19:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Faunce
Post by Dicerous
... That's just me, I like people who take risks on stage.
I could've said the same thing as Dicerous, so I'll give my two
cents.
Performing music is like sex, and bouldering. A beginner will be
afraid of the edge because if too close to it he'll get vertigo and
fall off, so he stays away until he runs up to it and dives off. An
intermediate player will learn to walk up to the edge then back off,
each subsequent time taking a little more time near the edge. A
seasoned performer will find that creating a dynamic relationship with
this edge, slowly working up to it, backing off, running up to it,
backing off, riding it, etc.--creating a composition within a
composition, and phrases within phrases--offers himself and his
audience so much more pleasure.

Matt
JPD
2009-10-18 19:16:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Faunce
Post by Matt Faunce
Post by Dicerous
... That's just me, I like people who take risks on stage.
I could've said the same thing as Dicerous, so I'll give my two
cents.
Performing music is like sex, and bouldering. A beginner will be
afraid of the edge because if too close to it he'll get vertigo and
fall off, so he stays away until he runs up to it and dives off. An
intermediate player will learn to walk up to the edge then back off,
each subsequent time taking a little more time near the edge. A
seasoned performer will find that creating a dynamic relationship with
this edge, slowly working up to it, backing off, running up to it,
backing off, riding it, etc.--creating a composition within a
composition, and phrases within phrases--offers himself and his
audience so much more pleasure.
Matt
I call this "being alive to the music." Respond to the music, the
situation, the audience, the moment. Try not to deliver a canned
performance. It's not difficult to do once one gets the idea and has a
little success with it.

(Also, being alive to the music is important even when there is no
audience besides the one we always carry with us.)

John Philip Dimick
Guitarist.com
Dicerous
2009-10-18 19:47:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by JPD
Post by Matt Faunce
Post by Matt Faunce
Post by Dicerous
... That's just me, I like people who take risks on stage.
I could've said the same thing as Dicerous, so I'll give my two
cents.
Performing music is like sex, and bouldering. A beginner will be
afraid of the edge because if too close to it he'll get vertigo and
fall off, so he stays away until he runs up to it and dives off. An
intermediate player will learn to walk up to the edge then back off,
each subsequent time taking a little more time near the edge. A
seasoned performer will find that creating a dynamic relationship with
this edge, slowly working up to it, backing off, running up to it,
backing off, riding it, etc.--creating a composition within a
composition, and phrases within phrases--offers himself and his
audience so much more pleasure.
Matt
I call this "being alive to the music." Respond to the music, the
situation, the audience, the moment. Try not to deliver a canned
performance. It's not difficult to do once one gets the idea and has a
little success with it.
(Also, being alive to the music is important even when there is no
audience besides the one we always carry with us.)
John Philip Dimick
Guitarist.com
That's a great way to describe it. Ensemble playing (I suppose) is a
way to bring it out, to answer Heshem's questions. It requires
carefully listening (among other things).


David
Andrew Schulman
2009-10-18 20:10:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by JPD
Post by Matt Faunce
Post by Matt Faunce
Post by Dicerous
... That's just me, I like people who take risks on stage.
I could've said the same thing as Dicerous, so I'll give my two
cents.
Performing music is like sex, and bouldering. A beginner will be
afraid of the edge because if too close to it he'll get vertigo and
fall off, so he stays away until he runs up to it and dives off. An
intermediate player will learn to walk up to the edge then back off,
each subsequent time taking a little more time near the edge. A
seasoned performer will find that creating a dynamic relationship with
this edge, slowly working up to it, backing off, running up to it,
backing off, riding it, etc.--creating a composition within a
composition, and phrases within phrases--offers himself and his
audience so much more pleasure.
Matt
I call this "being alive to the music." Respond to the music, the
situation, the audience, the moment. Try not to deliver a canned
performance. It's not difficult to do once one gets the idea and has a
little success with it.
(Also, being alive to the music is important even when there is no
audience besides the one we always carry with us.)
John Philip Dimick
Guitarist.com
That's a great way to describe it.  Ensemble playing (I suppose) is a
way to bring it out, to answer Heshem's questions.  It requires
carefully listening (among other things).
Ensemble playing involves a 50-50 split; half your attention to the
other players, half to yourself.

Andrew
John Nguyen
2009-10-17 14:44:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
If this is true that you play as well as Stanley, you are without
question one of the better players on the planet. A question I have
been wondering for a while.  Why don't you use your real, full name
instead of hiding behind "Dicerous"?  I am sure you have a lot to
share.
Doug
David used ot have his picture posted sometimes back but not there
anymore. I'm not sure if anyone recognizes him from the picture.

See here:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.classical.guitar/browse_frm/thread/a1cce51a693c78e7/e1654c5b69dcdbdc?lnk=gst&q=david+cooties#e1654c5b69dcdbdc

John
Dicerous
2009-10-17 15:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Nguyen
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
If this is true that you play as well as Stanley, you are without
question one of the better players on the planet. A question I have
been wondering for a while.  Why don't you use your real, full name
instead of hiding behind "Dicerous"?  I am sure you have a lot to
share.
Doug
David used ot have his picture posted sometimes back but not there
anymore. I'm not sure if anyone recognizes him from the picture.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.classical.guitar/browse_frm/...
John
That's back when people weren't as crazy. I also have a buzz cut now,
and have lost 20 lbs.


David
Tashi
2009-10-17 15:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Nguyen
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
If this is true that you play as well as Stanley, you are without
question one of the better players on the planet. A question I have
been wondering for a while.  Why don't you use your real, full name
instead of hiding behind "Dicerous"?  I am sure you have a lot to
share.
Doug
David used ot have his picture posted sometimes back but not there
anymore. I'm not sure if anyone recognizes him from the picture.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.classical.guitar/browse_frm/...
John
Dave sent me a link to join him on Facebook or something like that,
but I told him I wasn't Gay. I'll look up his name later and post it
here unless of course he objects. But even if he objects I think I'll
post it anyway.
Dicerous
2009-10-17 16:15:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Post by John Nguyen
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
If this is true that you play as well as Stanley, you are without
question one of the better players on the planet. A question I have
been wondering for a while.  Why don't you use your real, full name
instead of hiding behind "Dicerous"?  I am sure you have a lot to
share.
Doug
David used ot have his picture posted sometimes back but not there
anymore. I'm not sure if anyone recognizes him from the picture.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.classical.guitar/browse_frm/...
John
Dave sent me a link to join him on Facebook or something like that,
but I told him I wasn't Gay.  I'll look up his name later and post it
here unless of course he objects.  But even if he objects I think I'll
post it anyway.
blah, I'm at www.keystolifemusic.com it's where I teach.
Tashi
2009-10-17 16:32:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Post by John Nguyen
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
If this is true that you play as well as Stanley, you are without
question one of the better players on the planet. A question I have
been wondering for a while.  Why don't you use your real, full name
instead of hiding behind "Dicerous"?  I am sure you have a lot to
share.
Doug
David used ot have his picture posted sometimes back but not there
anymore. I'm not sure if anyone recognizes him from the picture.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.classical.guitar/browse_frm/...
John
Dave sent me a link to join him on Facebook or something like that,
but I told him I wasn't Gay.  I'll look up his name later and post it
here unless of course he objects.  But even if he objects I think I'll
post it anyway.
blah, I'm atwww.keystolifemusic.com it's where I teach.
Thanks for saving me the effort.
Tashi
2009-10-17 16:35:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tashi
Post by John Nguyen
Post by Douglas Seth
David,
If this is true that you play as well as Stanley, you are without
question one of the better players on the planet. A question I have
been wondering for a while.  Why don't you use your real, full name
instead of hiding behind "Dicerous"?  I am sure you have a lot to
share.
Doug
David used ot have his picture posted sometimes back but not there
anymore. I'm not sure if anyone recognizes him from the picture.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.classical.guitar/browse_frm/...
John
Dave sent me a link to join him on Facebook or something like that,
but I told him I wasn't Gay.  I'll look up his name later and post it
here unless of course he objects.  But even if he objects I think I'll
post it anyway.
blah, I'm atwww.keystolifemusic.com it's where I teach.
"David began teaching classical guitar for Keys to Life in the
winter of 2009".

It's still officially fall isn't it?
JonLorPro
2009-10-17 17:45:32 UTC
Permalink
...I'm atwww.keystolifemusic.com�it's where I teach-
I noticed in your bio that you studied at Ithaca with Ed Flower. Did
you happen to know another student of his named Bob McWilliams? This
would have been back in the late 70's.
Dicerous
2009-10-17 18:05:59 UTC
Permalink
...I'm atwww.keystolifemusic.comit's where I teach-
I noticed in your bio that you studied at Ithaca with Ed Flower.  Did
you happen to know another student of his named Bob McWilliams? This
would have been back in the late 70's.
NO! I studied with Ed while I was at Williams, not at Ithaca. And
btw none of my fabulous teachers had this incessant obsession with
minutae. Is that something you guys pick up when you want to sound
credible? Because that may be what you achieve, but you can only see
the leaves rather than the tree or the forest (as do your students ad
infinitum). All are important of course, but I prefer to save the
literary-credibility-game for other more important venues.
JonLorPro
2009-10-17 19:32:30 UTC
Permalink
...I'm atwww.keystolifemusic.comit'swhere I teach-
I noticed in your bio that you studied at Ithaca with Ed Flower. �Did
you happen to know another student of his named Bob McWilliams? This
would have been back in the late 70's.
NO! �I studied with Ed while I was at Williams, not at Ithaca. �And
btw none of my fabulous teachers had this incessant obsession with
minutae. �Is that something you guys pick up when you want to sound
credible? �Because that may be what you achieve, but you can only see
the leaves rather than the tree or the forest (as do your students ad
infinitum). �All are important of course, but I prefer to save the
literary-credibility-game for other more important venues.
Wow. It was just a simple question because I'm interested in trying
to find someone. As for minutiae, concern for which you characterize
as obsession, "as ye are in small things, so are ye in great."
Dicerous
2009-10-17 19:47:54 UTC
Permalink
...I'm atwww.keystolifemusic.comit'swhereI teach-
I noticed in your bio that you studied at Ithaca with Ed Flower. Did
you happen to know another student of his named Bob McWilliams? This
would have been back in the late 70's.
NO! I studied with Ed while I was at Williams, not at Ithaca. And
btw none of my fabulous teachers had this incessant obsession with
minutae. Is that something you guys pick up when you want to sound
credible? Because that may be what you achieve, but you can only see
the leaves rather than the tree or the forest (as do your students ad
infinitum). All are important of course, but I prefer to save the
literary-credibility-game for other more important venues.
Wow.  It was just a simple question because I'm interested in trying
to find someone.  As for minutiae, concern for which you characterize
as obsession, "as ye are in small things, so are ye in great."
Metaphor, metonymy, simile, periphrais, suspension, lilotes,
hypostasis--all great to understand poetry. The beauty of Beethoven
may be his use of a modulation to the bVI or maybe Schubert! But *a
modulation to the bVI may or may not be beautiful. There's not a
transitive property between the part to the sums of the parts. The
two *parts* are different, altered. Does this make sense? There's no
sense in describing the beautiful use of the modulation to the bVI in
a Schubert symphony without it's context of that symphony. And in
conveying the beauty of that symphony to someone else, u don't
amalgamate a bunch of parts and stitch them together. OK?

David
JonLorPro
2009-10-19 04:01:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dicerous
...I'm atwww.keystolifemusic.comit'swhereIteach-
I noticed in your bio that you studied at Ithaca with Ed Flower. Did
you happen to know another student of his named Bob McWilliams? This
would have been back in the late 70's.
NO! I studied with Ed while I was at Williams, not at Ithaca. And
btw none of my fabulous teachers had this incessant obsession with
minutae. Is that something you guys pick up when you want to sound
credible? Because that may be what you achieve, but you can only see
the leaves rather than the tree or the forest (as do your students ad
infinitum). All are important of course, but I prefer to save the
literary-credibility-game for other more important venues.
Wow. �It was just a simple question because I'm interested in trying
to find someone. �As for minutiae, concern for which you characterize
as obsession, "as ye are in small things, so are ye in great."
Metaphor, metonymy, simile, periphrais, suspension, lilotes,
hypostasis--all great to understand poetry. �The beauty of Beethoven
may be his use of a modulation to the bVI or maybe Schubert! �But *a
modulation to the bVI may or may not be beautiful. � �There's not a
transitive property between the part to the sums of the parts. �The
two *parts* are different, altered. �Does this make sense? �There's no
sense in describing the beautiful use of the modulation to the bVI in
a Schubert symphony without it's context of that symphony. �And in
conveying the beauty of that symphony to someone else, u don't
amalgamate a bunch of parts and stitch them together. �OK?
So what's your point? Your illustration is not at all antithetical to
the principle of the quote I paraphrased (the source of which I don't
know- it's of interest more for what it says rather than for whoever
may have said it) .

So, a modulation to bVI may be a simple thing in and of itself. But
as you say yourself, of the beauty of Beethoven, or Schubert, is in
"his (their) use" of the modulation. Their usage of such a small
thing is characterized by care, discretion, aesthetic proportion, etc.
that is to say, all the qualities of a greatness of mind that is able
to produce works of art that seem more than the sum of their parts.
Genius is like fractal geometry; it is not reserved only for when
things get big. You zero in on details and it's still there.

By comparison, there is your sudden modulation from having received a
benign inquiry as whether you happened ever to know someone, to your
unwarranted and disconnected hostility in response. How beautiful was
that? Certainly in the distillation whereby music has relevance to
life one does encounter abrupt modulations in compositions, but there
is no precedent for this conversational one here, no over arching
dynamic within which it has context, because as far as I know, there
has not been any sort of exchange at all between us, neutral or
dynamic.

Yet somehow in having the effrontery to ask you a question, I seem to
have lanced some pustule of seething resentment that was awaiting the
merest opportunity to be popped. I don't know what "minutae"-al
obsession you think I, as one of some class of "guys" to which I am
apparently relegated, may have which you so highly resent- an approach
to fingering, or a tendency to look for more in a piece than the
obvious, perhaps. But the dismissive attitude you seem to vaunt in
regard to "minutae" , you over indulge in to the point of being
slovenly. You omit the "minutum" of offering the slightest clue as to
what the hell this is supposed to about, let alone what it has to do
with whether you may have met someone.
Dicerous
2009-10-19 05:08:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dicerous
...I'm atwww.keystolifemusic.comit'swhereIteach-
I noticed in your bio that you studied at Ithaca with Ed Flower. Did
you happen to know another student of his named Bob McWilliams? This
would have been back in the late 70's.
NO! I studied with Ed while I was at Williams, not at Ithaca. And
btw none of my fabulous teachers had this incessant obsession with
minutae. Is that something you guys pick up when you want to sound
credible? Because that may be what you achieve, but you can only see
the leaves rather than the tree or the forest (as do your students ad
infinitum). All are important of course, but I prefer to save the
literary-credibility-game for other more important venues.
Wow. It was just a simple question because I'm interested in trying
to find someone. As for minutiae, concern for which you characterize
as obsession, "as ye are in small things, so are ye in great."
Metaphor, metonymy, simile, periphrais, suspension, lilotes,
hypostasis--all great to understand poetry. The beauty of Beethoven
may be his use of a modulation to the bVI or maybe Schubert! But *a
modulation to the bVI may or may not be beautiful. There's not a
transitive property between the part to the sums of the parts. The
two *parts* are different, altered. Does this make sense? There's no
sense in describing the beautiful use of the modulation to the bVI in
a Schubert symphony without it's context of that symphony. And in
conveying the beauty of that symphony to someone else, u don't
amalgamate a bunch of parts and stitch them together. OK?
So what's your point?  Your illustration is not at all antithetical to
the principle of the quote I paraphrased (the source of which I don't
know- it's of interest more for what it says rather than for whoever
may have said it) .
So, a modulation to bVI may be a simple thing in and of itself.  But
as you say yourself, of the beauty of Beethoven, or Schubert, is in
"his (their) use" of the modulation.  Their usage of such a small
thing is characterized by care, discretion, aesthetic proportion, etc.
that is to say, all the qualities of a greatness of mind that is able
to produce works of art that seem more than the sum of their parts.
Genius is like fractal geometry; it is not reserved only for when
things get big. You zero in on details and it's still there.
By comparison, there is your sudden modulation from having received a
benign inquiry as whether you happened ever to know someone, to your
unwarranted and disconnected hostility in response.  How beautiful was
that?   Certainly in the distillation whereby music has relevance to
life one does encounter abrupt modulations in compositions, but there
is no precedent for this conversational one here, no over arching
dynamic within which it has context, because as far as I know, there
has not been  any sort of exchange at all between us, neutral or
dynamic.
Yet somehow in having the effrontery to ask you a question, I seem to
have lanced some pustule of seething resentment that was awaiting the
merest opportunity to be popped.  I don't know what "minutae"-al
obsession you think I, as one of some class of "guys" to which I am
apparently relegated, may have which you so highly resent- an approach
to fingering, or a tendency to look for more in a piece than the
obvious, perhaps.  But the dismissive attitude you seem to vaunt in
regard to "minutae" , you over indulge in to the point of being
slovenly.  You omit the "minutum" of offering the slightest clue as to
what the hell this is supposed to about, let alone what it has to do
with whether you may have met someone.
I should add that the hallmark of the obsessional is his or her
incomplete ability to extrapolate and/or take criticism to that
effect. Be well jon lor pro! Be well, my sheath is neither vengeful
nor spiteful.


David
JonLorPro
2009-10-19 12:55:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dicerous
I should add that the hallmark of the obsessional is his or her
incomplete ability to extrapolate and/or take criticism to that
effect. �Be well jon lor pro! �Be well, my sheath is neither vengeful
nor spiteful.
David-
Hmmm, still oozing, I see. But- it's coming along nicely, should be
all right.

Well, physician, I leave thy health in thine own hands- heed thyself
and heal thyself.

Toodloo then..
JonLorPro
2009-10-19 12:58:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dicerous
I should add that the hallmark of the obsessional is his or her
incomplete ability to extrapolate and/or take criticism to that
effect. �Be well jon lor pro! �Be well, my sheath is neither vengeful
nor spiteful.
David
Hmmm, still oozing, I see. But- it's coming along nicely, should be
all right.
Well, no charge. Physician, I leave thy health in thine own hands-
heed thyself
and heal thyself.
Toodloo then..
Stanley Yates
2009-10-23 02:20:33 UTC
Permalink
David, if I'm to be your master, I'll ask of you a synopsis of Proust's
Remembrance of Thing's Past (no, I've never been able to get through the
whole thing - who has?) compared and contrasted with Milton's intentional
fallacies in Paradise. Or, as an alternative, a dry one-liner dismissing the
assignment. sy
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy. I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their
music
section, and there they were. I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended)
transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh? If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that. Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
Who is *that guy* anyways? Stanley? I've already said Stanley can be
my master. He's not a better player than me, but he's without a doubt
a better teacher. I could learn alot from him. If you're talking
Matt Faunce, we're talking apples and oranges. I don't know who IVAN
is....you might be way better than me. If you are I condemn you to
the bowels of hell! I've already said that Alain is a very good
player, he underestimates himself.


David
Dicerous
2009-10-23 02:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stanley Yates
David, if I'm to be your master, I'll ask of you a synopsis of Proust's
Remembrance of Thing's Past (no, I've never been able to get through the
whole thing - who has?) compared and contrasted with Milton's intentional
fallacies in Paradise. Or, as an alternative, a dry one-liner dismissing the
assignment. sy
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy. I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their
music
section, and there they were. I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh? If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that. Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
Who is *that guy* anyways?  Stanley?  I've already said Stanley can be
my master.  He's not a better player than me, but he's without a doubt
a better teacher.  I could learn alot from him.  If you're talking
Matt Faunce, we're talking apples and oranges.  I don't know who IVAN
is....you might be way better than me.  If you are I condemn you to
the bowels of hell!  I've already said that Alain is a very good
player, he underestimates himself.
David
Only conservatives deal in fictions. Have you read *Theory of
Fictions* by Jeremy Bentham? Interesting read (and not too many
pages).


David
Stanley Yates
2009-10-23 02:51:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stanley Yates
David, if I'm to be your master, I'll ask of you a synopsis of Proust's
Remembrance of Thing's Past (no, I've never been able to get through the
whole thing - who has?) compared and contrasted with Milton's intentional
fallacies in Paradise. Or, as an alternative, a dry one-liner dismissing the
assignment. sy
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy. I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their
music
section, and there they were. I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh? If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that. Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
Who is *that guy* anyways? Stanley? I've already said Stanley can be
my master. He's not a better player than me, but he's without a doubt
a better teacher. I could learn alot from him. If you're talking
Matt Faunce, we're talking apples and oranges. I don't know who IVAN
is....you might be way better than me. If you are I condemn you to
the bowels of hell! I've already said that Alain is a very good
player, he underestimates himself.
David
Only conservatives deal in fictions. Have you read *Theory of
Fictions* by Jeremy Bentham? Interesting read (and not too many
pages).


David

--------
David, I haven't. But your response isn't the dry one-liner I hoped for. In
any event, everything we imagine is a fiction...
sy
JPD
2009-10-23 14:33:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stanley Yates
David, if I'm to be your master, I'll ask of you a synopsis of Proust's
Remembrance of Thing's Past (no, I've never been able to get through the
whole thing - who has?) compared and contrasted with Milton's intentional
fallacies in Paradise. Or, as an alternative, a dry one-liner dismissing the
assignment. sy
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy. I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their
music
section, and there they were. I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh? If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that. Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
Who is *that guy* anyways? Stanley? I've already said Stanley can be
my master. He's not a better player than me, but he's without a doubt
a better teacher. I could learn alot from him. If you're talking
Matt Faunce, we're talking apples and oranges. I don't know who IVAN
is....you might be way better than me. If you are I condemn you to
the bowels of hell! I've already said that Alain is a very good
player, he underestimates himself.
David
Only conservatives deal in fictions.  Have you read *Theory of
Fictions* by Jeremy Bentham?  Interesting read (and not too many
pages).
David
--------
David, I haven't. But your response isn't the dry one-liner I hoped for. In
any event, everything we imagine is a fiction...
sy
And reality is a fiction, too, if you ask Wallace Stevens. According
to Wikipedia:

==========
Concerning the relation between consciousness and the world, in
Stevens's work "imagination" is not equivalent to consciousness nor is
"reality" equivalent to the world as it exists outside our minds.
Reality is the product of the imagination as it shapes the world.
Because it is constantly changing as we attempt to find imaginatively
satisfying ways to perceive the world, reality is an activity, not a
static object. We approach reality with a piecemeal understanding,
putting together parts of the world in an attempt to make it seem
coherent. To make sense of the world is to construct a worldview
through an active exercise of the imagination. This is no dry,
philosophical activity, but a passionate engagement in finding order
and meaning.

[...]

The imagination can only conceive of a world for a moment—a particular
time, place and culture—and so must continually revise its conception
to align with the changing world. And as these worldviews come and go,
each person is pulled in his or her normal life between the influence
the world has on imagination and the influence imagination has on the
way we view the world.

For this reason, the best we can hope for is a well-conceived fiction,
satisfying for the moment, but sure to lapse into obsolescence as new
imaginings wash over the world.
==========

This is good stuff, it seems to me—for the moment, at least!

Ivan
2009-10-18 16:57:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh?  If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that.  Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
By Troll I mean someone who has mastered the art of hiding behind
Internet, trying to offend people, because he or she has limited
confidence in themselves. I don't give a shit what you've mastered. I
have nothing but contempt for people like you.
Dicerous
2009-10-18 18:52:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by Ivan
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
David
Trying to play the Troll, David? It is not so easy... the guy is way
better than you.
huh?  If by troll you mean someone who has mastered most of the
repertoire and still knows how to entertain, then yes, I'm a troll.
If by troll you mean someone who isn't concerned with the banal
trivialities that these people seem to placate their ass burgers with,
then I'm yes I'm a troll and not that.  Pretense is the last refuge of
scoundrels.
David
By Troll I mean someone who has mastered the art of hiding behind
Internet, trying to offend people, because he or she has limited
confidence in themselves. I don't give a shit what you've mastered. I
have nothing but contempt for people like you.
haha
Paul Magnussen
2009-10-17 17:54:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
So he's supposed to buy every transcription on the market, play through
them all, choose the best one and use the others to wrap fish and chips in?

Paul Magnussen
Dicerous
2009-10-17 18:09:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Magnussen
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
So he's supposed to buy every transcription on the market, play through
them all, choose the best one and use the others to wrap fish and chips in?
Paul Magnussen
He should get the original manuscript and write out his own
forgodsakes. What planet are you people from? If he doesn't know
where-to-begin he should get a teacher and get help.

David
John Nguyen
2009-10-17 18:42:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dicerous
Post by Paul Magnussen
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
So he's supposed to buy every transcription on the market, play through
them all, choose the best one and use the others to wrap fish and chips in?
Paul Magnussen
He should get the original manuscript and write out his own
forgodsakes.  What planet are you people from?  If he doesn't know
where-to-begin he should get a teacher and get help.
David
I think that's a little too extreme, don't you think? Do you grow your
own veggies, raise your own cattle, poultries, and fish? Do you ride a
horse from your farm or drive a car "made" by someone else? It's nice
to write your own transcription once in a while, but there are plenty
out there that's much better. Re-inventing the wheel is fun,
sometimes, and you even learn something while doing it, but don't
think that you will make a better wheel everytime by any stretch of
imagination.
Cheers,

John
Tashi
2009-10-17 18:45:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Nguyen
Post by Dicerous
Post by Paul Magnussen
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
So he's supposed to buy every transcription on the market, play through
them all, choose the best one and use the others to wrap fish and chips in?
Paul Magnussen
He should get the original manuscript and write out his own
forgodsakes.  What planet are you people from?  If he doesn't know
where-to-begin he should get a teacher and get help.
David
I think that's a little too extreme, don't you think? Do you grow your
own veggies, raise your own cattle, poultries, and fish? Do you ride a
horse from your farm or drive a car "made" by someone else? It's nice
to write your own transcription once in a while, but there are plenty
out there that's much better. Re-inventing the wheel is fun,
sometimes, and you even learn something while doing it, but don't
think that you will make a better wheel everytime by any stretch of
imagination.
Cheers,
John
I'm still waiting for "winter of 2009" to arrive......
Dicerous
2009-10-17 19:18:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Nguyen
Post by Dicerous
Post by Paul Magnussen
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
So he's supposed to buy every transcription on the market, play through
them all, choose the best one and use the others to wrap fish and chips in?
Paul Magnussen
He should get the original manuscript and write out his own
forgodsakes.  What planet are you people from?  If he doesn't know
where-to-begin he should get a teacher and get help.
David
I think that's a little too extreme, don't you think? Do you grow your
own veggies, raise your own cattle, poultries, and fish? Do you ride a
horse from your farm or drive a car "made" by someone else? It's nice
to write your own transcription once in a while, but there are plenty
out there that's much better. Re-inventing the wheel is fun,
sometimes, and you even learn something while doing it, but don't
think that you will make a better wheel everytime by any stretch of
imagination.
Cheers,
John
rex regis trollu
Dicerous
2009-10-17 19:29:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dicerous
Post by John Nguyen
Post by Dicerous
Post by Paul Magnussen
Post by Dicerous
Post by Ivan
Kid of related question... A preferred (or recommended) transcription
fr the solo violin sonatas and partitas (BWV 1001-1006)?
good god ivan, aren't you able to make your own decisions by now?
So he's supposed to buy every transcription on the market, play through
them all, choose the best one and use the others to wrap fish and chips in?
Paul Magnussen
He should get the original manuscript and write out his own
forgodsakes.  What planet are you people from?  If he doesn't know
where-to-begin he should get a teacher and get help.
David
I think that's a little too extreme, don't you think? Do you grow your
own veggies, raise your own cattle, poultries, and fish? Do you ride a
horse from your farm or drive a car "made" by someone else? It's nice
to write your own transcription once in a while, but there are plenty
out there that's much better. Re-inventing the wheel is fun,
sometimes, and you even learn something while doing it, but don't
think that you will make a better wheel everytime by any stretch of
imagination.
Cheers,
John
rex regis trollu
Contrary to the practices of MO and Kent Murdick here is a list of
players I like:


David Russell
Julian Bream
John Williams
Manuel Barrueco
Norbert Kraft
Jason Vieaux

These are people that are capable of the crucial trifecta for
performances:

1. FIRST RATE MUSICALITY
2. TAKES RISKS WITH THE MUSIC
3. ARE ENTERTAINING AND PERSONABLE


Notice that technique isn't on the list (even though all of them have
good technique). There are many more, and I imagine Chappeldaine or
however you spell it would be on the list, but I've never heard him.
Portland has a rather undiscerning public when it comes to music, and
therefore there are many 3rd rate performers here that have perfectly
decent careers. To the extent this is true throughout the country,
the standard of performance is completely skewed. Andrew works in New
York, that's not the same as me working in Portland. Their audiences
are much more discerning.

David
John Nguyen
2009-10-17 19:43:56 UTC
Permalink
rex regis trollu-
The self-proclamation is very loud and clear!!
h***@verizon.net
2009-10-17 02:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by dofrenzy
Recently picked up Stanley Yates "Bach Cello Suites" as an impulse
buy.  I was buying strings from somewhere and clicked on their music
section, and there they were.  I was not actually all that familiar
with the Prelude from BWV 1007, but I love it now!
Anyone have a "preferred" transcription of the cello suites?
Preferred key for the first movement of the first suite (the super-
popular Prelude from BWV 1007).
I like it in D. I use my own transcription. You can hear part of it
on my CD Baby page. http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/himmelhoch
S
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