Discussion:
Baroque guitar
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Robert Crim
2006-02-07 19:47:06 UTC
Permalink
Some of you folks like baroque guitar transcriptions such as deVisee,
Sanz and Roncalli. Take a trip over to http://www.baroqueguitar.net/
and find cleaned up (legible) versions of the original tablatures
along with lots of information explaining the music and the
ornamentation.

Of particular interest should be the two books of Gaspar Sanz:
"Instruccion de Musica Sobre la Guitarra Española (1674 - 1675)."
You'll find the tablature to be almost the same as modern "tab."

You can make your own transcriptions by adding/transposing the
appropriate basses to the 6th string or just put a capo at the third
fret and play like the real guys.

Good stuff.

Robert
Mark & Steven Bornfeld
2006-02-07 22:23:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Crim
Some of you folks like baroque guitar transcriptions such as deVisee,
Sanz and Roncalli. Take a trip over to http://www.baroqueguitar.net/
and find cleaned up (legible) versions of the original tablatures
along with lots of information explaining the music and the
ornamentation.
"Instruccion de Musica Sobre la Guitarra Española (1674 - 1675)."
You'll find the tablature to be almost the same as modern "tab."
You can make your own transcriptions by adding/transposing the
appropriate basses to the 6th string or just put a capo at the third
fret and play like the real guys.
Good stuff.
Robert
Thanks for this, Robert!

Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
David Raleigh Arnold
2006-02-07 22:36:57 UTC
Permalink
Some of you folks like baroque guitar transcriptions such as deVisee, Sanz
and Roncalli. Take a trip over to http://www.baroqueguitar.net/ and find
cleaned up (legible) versions of the original tablatures along with lots
of information explaining the music and the ornamentation.
"Instruccion de Musica Sobre la Guitarra Española (1674 - 1675)." You'll
find the tablature to be almost the same as modern "tab."
You can make your own transcriptions by adding/transposing the appropriate
basses to the 6th string or just put a capo at the third fret and play
like the real guys.
Wha? The 5 string stuff is for *guitar*. Why strap up?

Thanks for this. It looks very very useful. daveA
--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
"Dynamic Guitar Technique": http://www.openguitar.com/instruction.html
email: "David Raleigh Arnold" <***@openguitar.com>|<***@cox.net>
or use ***@Mail.Link: http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html
Robert Crim
2006-02-07 23:57:22 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 17:36:57 -0500, David Raleigh Arnold
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Some of you folks like baroque guitar transcriptions such as deVisee, Sanz
and Roncalli. Take a trip over to http://www.baroqueguitar.net/ and find
cleaned up (legible) versions of the original tablatures along with lots
of information explaining the music and the ornamentation.
"Instruccion de Musica Sobre la Guitarra Española (1674 - 1675)." You'll
find the tablature to be almost the same as modern "tab."
You can make your own transcriptions by adding/transposing the appropriate
basses to the 6th string or just put a capo at the third fret and play
like the real guys.
Wha? The 5 string stuff is for *guitar*. Why strap up?
From the Baroqueguitar.net website: "The tablatures presented here
are intended for the Baroque Guitar, and the instrument of the era
differed significantly from the modern classical guitar. It was
lighter in construction with a smaller, shallower body, lacked fan
strutting, and had a shorter scale length with tied on adjustable
frets. "

The older you go the shorter the scale, as a not so general rule.

Robert
David Kilpatrick
2006-02-08 01:32:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Crim
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 17:36:57 -0500, David Raleigh Arnold
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Some of you folks like baroque guitar transcriptions such as deVisee, Sanz
and Roncalli. Take a trip over to http://www.baroqueguitar.net/ and find
cleaned up (legible) versions of the original tablatures along with lots
of information explaining the music and the ornamentation.
"Instruccion de Musica Sobre la Guitarra Española (1674 - 1675)." You'll
find the tablature to be almost the same as modern "tab."
You can make your own transcriptions by adding/transposing the appropriate
basses to the 6th string or just put a capo at the third fret and play
like the real guys.
Wha? The 5 string stuff is for *guitar*. Why strap up?
From the Baroqueguitar.net website: "The tablatures presented here
are intended for the Baroque Guitar, and the instrument of the era
differed significantly from the modern classical guitar. It was
lighter in construction with a smaller, shallower body, lacked fan
strutting, and had a shorter scale length with tied on adjustable
frets. "
The older you go the shorter the scale, as a not so general rule.
Interesting. Lots of baroque guitars have scales longer than 650mm, or
so I thought. The even older vihuela had 670mm or more.

Have to look stuff up.

David
David Raleigh Arnold
2006-02-08 10:58:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kilpatrick
Post by Robert Crim
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 17:36:57 -0500, David Raleigh Arnold
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Post by Robert Crim
Some of you folks like baroque guitar transcriptions such as deVisee,
Sanz and Roncalli. Take a trip over to http://www.baroqueguitar.net/
and find cleaned up (legible) versions of the original tablatures
along with lots of information explaining the music and the
ornamentation.
"Instruccion de Musica Sobre la Guitarra Española (1674 - 1675)."
You'll find the tablature to be almost the same as modern "tab."
You can make your own transcriptions by adding/transposing the
appropriate basses to the 6th string or just put a capo at the third
fret and play like the real guys.
Wha? The 5 string stuff is for *guitar*. Why strap up?
From the Baroqueguitar.net website: "The tablatures presented here are
intended for the Baroque Guitar, and the instrument of the era differed
significantly from the modern classical guitar. It was lighter in
construction with a smaller, shallower body, lacked fan strutting, and
had a shorter scale length with tied on adjustable frets. "
The older you go the shorter the scale, as a not so general rule.
Interesting. Lots of baroque guitars have scales longer than 650mm, or
so I thought. The even older vihuela had 670mm or more.
Have to look stuff up.
In this case I don't think there's much point.

I don't think the scale length is so hot right now, because guitars should
*fit*, but if you strap up you have to tune the thing down. Then you need
suitable strings to make it sound 'authentic'. Then they break when you
unstrap and tune back up to play 19th century music, which is at least
as worthy. It won't sound right anyway. What are they thinking? How
is looking anything up going to change any of that? daveA
--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
"Dynamic Guitar Technique": http://www.openguitar.com/instruction.html
email: "David Raleigh Arnold" <***@openguitar.com>|<***@cox.net>
or use ***@Mail.Link: http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html
Robert Crim
2006-02-08 15:16:48 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 05:58:12 -0500, David Raleigh Arnold
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
I don't think the scale length is so hot right now, because guitars should
*fit*, but if you strap up you have to tune the thing down. Then you need
suitable strings to make it sound 'authentic'. Then they break when you
unstrap and tune back up to play 19th century music, which is at least
as worthy. It won't sound right anyway. What are they thinking? How
is looking anything up going to change any of that? daveA
The point is to get the music out of those manuscripts, not to make
your guitar sound like a 5 course baroque guitar. You couldn't do
that anyway with just 6 strings and no octave stringing.

It's certainly nothing to get all wound up about, in any case.

Robert
David Raleigh Arnold
2006-02-08 19:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Crim
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 05:58:12 -0500, David Raleigh Arnold
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
I don't think the scale length is so hot right now, because guitars
should *fit*, but if you strap up you have to tune the thing down. Then
you need suitable strings to make it sound 'authentic'. Then they break
when you unstrap and tune back up to play 19th century music, which is at
least as worthy. It won't sound right anyway. What are they thinking?
How is looking anything up going to change any of that? daveA
The point is to get the music out of those manuscripts, not to make your
guitar sound like a 5 course baroque guitar. You couldn't do that anyway
with just 6 strings and no octave stringing.
It's certainly nothing to get all wound up about, in any case.
I've been meaning to make a baroque guitar for some time. Take an
old 3/4, make a new nut, drill holes for four viola pegs, make a jig
and redrill the bridge saddle--done! Someday, maybe. daveA
--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
"Dynamic Guitar Technique": http://www.openguitar.com/instruction.html
email: "David Raleigh Arnold" <***@openguitar.com>|<***@cox.net>
or use ***@Mail.Link: http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html
Robert Crim
2006-02-08 19:29:31 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 14:10:18 -0500, David Raleigh Arnold
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
I've been meaning to make a baroque guitar for some time. Take an
old 3/4, make a new nut, drill holes for four viola pegs, make a jig
and redrill the bridge saddle--done! Someday, maybe. daveA
Check out: http://guitar.canzona.com/baroque.shtml for another way.

Robert
David Raleigh Arnold
2006-02-13 13:56:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Crim
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 14:10:18 -0500, David Raleigh Arnold
I've been meaning to make a baroque guitar for some time. Take an old
3/4, make a new nut, drill holes for four viola pegs, make a jig and
redrill the bridge saddle--done! Someday, maybe. daveA
Check out: http://guitar.canzona.com/baroque.shtml for another way.
That's a good idea, using pliers to turn the bit. I imagine that
borrowing my daughter's dremel would make much shorter work of that
task. The jig illustrated was exactly what I had in mind.

I am more inclined to go ahead and put on ten strings though. The
instrument really can't be used for anything else after that is
done. Why make a baroque guitar that really doesn't sound like
one? Drilling the holes is by far the hardest part. daveA
--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
"Dynamic Guitar Technique": http://www.openguitar.com/instruction.html
email: "David Raleigh Arnold" <***@openguitar.com>|<***@cox.net>
or use ***@Mail.Link: http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html
David Kilpatrick
2006-02-09 01:30:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
I've been meaning to make a baroque guitar for some time. Take an
old 3/4, make a new nut, drill holes for four viola pegs, make a jig
and redrill the bridge saddle--done! Someday, maybe. daveA
Don't forget to sand the entire guitar down to half the wood thickness
while you are at it...
David Raleigh Arnold
2006-02-09 14:53:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kilpatrick
I've been meaning to make a baroque guitar for some time. Take an old
3/4, make a new nut, drill holes for four viola pegs, make a jig and
redrill the bridge saddle--done! Someday, maybe. daveA
Don't forget to sand the entire guitar down to half the wood thickness
while you are at it...
Just looking to save a thou or two. I don't think you would find the
wood thickness would make that much difference, because the braces
inside wouldn't amount to much difference when you consider the
way the bridge was used for bracing back then, the smaller size of
the old top, and the extreme light stringing used then.

The purpose of doing it would be to be able to get a better impression
of the effect of the original instrument for the purpose of making better
transcriptions. Probably those who do transcriptions would do well
to do that as a low cost alternative to purchasing an imitation
Baroque guitar. daveA
--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
"Dynamic Guitar Technique": http://www.openguitar.com/instruction.html
email: "David Raleigh Arnold" <***@openguitar.com>|<***@cox.net>
or use ***@Mail.Link: http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html
Robert Crim
2006-02-08 15:13:37 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 01:32:39 +0000 (UTC), David Kilpatrick
Post by David Kilpatrick
Interesting. Lots of baroque guitars have scales longer than 650mm, or
so I thought. The even older vihuela had 670mm or more.
Have to look stuff up.
David
My knowledge of the instrument is very limited having played on only
two. One was about 62cm scale, and the other was about 58cm. I
understand that there were bigger ones at about 68cm. Frankly I don't
even like the sound of them very much. Too fussy for my tastes.

There is some real music in those manuscripts though. The work Karl
Scheit did with a lot of them is more to my liking.

Robert
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