Discussion:
Mysterious Barricades by Couperin
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pburdett
2012-11-06 20:54:35 UTC
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Hi all,

Anyone know where I can get the D major arrangement of Myserious Barricades
that Ben Verdary plays?
Cheers,
Paul
Steven Bornfeld
2012-11-06 22:43:30 UTC
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Post by pburdett
Hi all,
Anyone know where I can get the D major arrangement of Myserious Barricades
that Ben Verdary plays?
Cheers,
Paul
Haven't heard it. But I like Richard Yates's arrangement in G:

http://www.yatesguitar.com/pdfs/Couperin-MystBarr.pdf

Steve
pburdett
2012-11-07 06:09:57 UTC
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Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by pburdett
Hi all,
Anyone know where I can get the D major arrangement of Myserious Barricades
that Ben Verdary plays?
Cheers,
Paul
http://www.yatesguitar.com/pdfs/Couperin-MystBarr.pdf
Steve
Hi Steve,

I've heard that vesion in C major, but I much prefer Verdary's:


Cheers,

Paul
Steven Bornfeld
2012-11-07 18:47:49 UTC
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Post by pburdett
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by pburdett
Hi all,
Anyone know where I can get the D major arrangement of Myserious Barricades
that Ben Verdary plays?
Cheers,
Paul
http://www.yatesguitar.com/pdfs/Couperin-MystBarr.pdf
Steve
Hi Steve,
http://youtu.be/TdvJKT50794
Cheers,
Paul
Brain fart--Yates's in c, of course. And I agree. Verdary's
arrangement is lovely.

Steve
Fadosolrélamisi
2012-11-07 07:17:38 UTC
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Post by pburdett
Hi all,
Anyone know where I can get the D major arrangement of Myserious Barricades
that Ben Verdary plays?
Cheers,
Paul
I have an arr. in D but it's by Alirio Diaz ...
Following with the score (Diaz) in hand and with the music link you gave, I found that a lot of the bass were not held for their full duration, I am not familiar with the piece but I wonder how it would compare to the C version in term of the possibility to hold the bass. Anywhoo ... it's indeed a nice version and Verdery plays it superbly!
s***@gmail.com
2016-01-30 19:55:49 UTC
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Where can I get that Diaz transcription?
Steven Bornfeld
2016-01-31 18:50:44 UTC
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Post by s***@gmail.com
Where can I get that Diaz transcription?
If you're willing to buy a collection, it seems to be available in a
book edited by Ben Vedery. I have not seen it, but I understand it is
in D maj.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Reverie+%E2%80%93+French+Music+for+Flute+%26+Guitar

If you don't mind a transcription in C maj, it's freely available from
Richard Yates:


http://www.yatesguitar.com/pdfs/Couperin-MystBarr.pdf

Steve
Paul Magnussen
2016-01-31 21:35:15 UTC
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Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by s***@gmail.com
Where can I get that Diaz transcription?
If you're willing to buy a collection, it seems to be available in a
book edited by Ben Vedery. I have not seen it, but I understand it is
in D maj.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Reverie+%E2%80%93+French+Music+for+Flute+%26+Guitar
If you don't mind a transcription in C maj, it's freely available from
It's also in Parkening and the Guitar, Vol. 2. The transcription is in
C, but his recording is in D; so it looks as if he's using a capo (as
Sharon acknowledged).

Paul Magnussen
Matt Faunce
2016-01-31 21:45:28 UTC
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Post by Paul Magnussen
Post by Steven Bornfeld
Post by s***@gmail.com
Where can I get that Diaz transcription?
If you're willing to buy a collection, it seems to be available in a
book edited by Ben Vedery. I have not seen it, but I understand it is
in D maj.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Reverie+%E2%80%93+French+Music+for+Flute+%26+Guitar
If you don't mind a transcription in C maj, it's freely available from
It's also in Parkening and the Guitar, Vol. 2. The transcription is in
C, but his recording is in D; so it looks as if he's using a capo (as
Sharon acknowledged).
Paul Magnussen
Hmmmmmmmmm. Kinda like the Bach Präludium.
--
Matt
Andrew Schulman
2016-01-31 23:16:28 UTC
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Post by Steven Bornfeld
If you're willing to buy a collection, it seems to be available in a
book edited by Ben Vedery. I have not seen it, but I understand it is
in D maj.
If you don't mind a transcription in C maj, it's freely available from
2cts worth here: I tried it in C and D and found it works better in C.

Andrew
tom g
2016-02-01 13:31:17 UTC
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Post by Andrew Schulman
Post by Steven Bornfeld
If you're willing to buy a collection, it seems to be available in a
book edited by Ben Vedery. I have not seen it, but I understand it is
in D maj.
If you don't mind a transcription in C maj, it's freely available from
2cts worth here: I tried it in C and D and found it works better in C.
Andrew
I play my profe's transcription in C with sixth string at D and cejilla at first fret. It is more difficult and needs a clever digitation but I love it. David Russell argued with my teacher about the musical advantage in two or three places with sixth string at D and said there was only one place but my profe was correct.

Easy with 8 strings!

tom g
Andrew Schulman
2016-02-01 19:04:37 UTC
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Post by tom g
Easy with 8 strings!
tom g
Unfortunately, not as easy as I'd hoped! Wonderful piece, worth the effort. I know the sections where low D is needed and so that explains the need for the D if you play it in C, and that does make it easier on the 8-string because you still have 6-E. And it does need a clever fingering/digitation in many places because of the suspensions that need to be sustained over the bar line.

Andrew
Richard Yates
2016-02-01 22:07:57 UTC
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On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 11:04:37 -0800 (PST), Andrew Schulman
Post by Andrew Schulman
Post by tom g
Easy with 8 strings!
tom g
Unfortunately, not as easy as I'd hoped! Wonderful piece, worth the effort. I know the sections where low D is needed and so that explains the need for the D if you play it in C, and that does make it easier on the 8-string because you still have 6-E. And it does need a clever fingering/digitation in many places because of the suspensions that need to be sustained over the bar line.
Andrew
Most transcriptions I have seen miss the point (I think I remember a
Marshall/Parkening one in particular). The piece uses style brisé
throughout and the maze of tied notes is Couperin's best attempt to
imitate a Baroque lute with its naturally overlapping notes in
arpeggios.

If Couperin was trying to make the harpsichord sound like a lute, why
should we go through finger-tweaking contortions and obsess over the
octave of a bass note or two to try to make the guitar sound like the
harpsichord when we play it? S.L. Weiss wouldn't have.

That's why I much prefer to play this version:
http://www.yatesguitar.com/pdfs/lute-Couper
tom g
2016-02-01 23:11:40 UTC
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Post by Richard Yates
On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 11:04:37 -0800 (PST), Andrew Schulman
Post by Andrew Schulman
Post by tom g
Easy with 8 strings!
tom g
Unfortunately, not as easy as I'd hoped! Wonderful piece, worth the effort. I know the sections where low D is needed and so that explains the need for the D if you play it in C, and that does make it easier on the 8-string because you still have 6-E. And it does need a clever fingering/digitation in many places because of the suspensions that need to be sustained over the bar line.
Andrew
Most transcriptions I have seen miss the point (I think I remember a
Marshall/Parkening one in particular). The piece uses style brisé
throughout and the maze of tied notes is Couperin's best attempt to
imitate a Baroque lute with its naturally overlapping notes in
arpeggios.
If Couperin was trying to make the harpsichord sound like a lute, why
should we go through finger-tweaking contortions and obsess over the
octave of a bass note or two to try to make the guitar sound like the
harpsichord when we play it? S.L. Weiss wouldn't have.
http://www.yatesguitar.com/pdfs/lute-Couperin-MystBarr.pdf
I can almost agree with you but my real agreement is in other contexts not this one. If Couperin wanted to imitate the lute the imitation was part of his concept of the music. You say 'maze'. I think you are right but for another reason. The ligaduras are a kind of impediment to the changes of the harmony and then those impediments arrive at a final apoteosis in the 'maze' of the harmony in the last variation.
But of course we can only guess the real intention of the title. I simply prefer the piece with the ligaduras and I would play it differently without them.
There is not much contortion only unusual digitation more difficult to learn.
Finally, for me the register of the bass notes is very significant. The low D comes at important moments in the music, it is not about 'obsessing'!!
Anyway, now is an opportunity to thank you for all the great guitar music you have created for us!

tom g
David Raleigh Arnold
2016-02-02 23:54:16 UTC
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On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 15:11:40 -0800 (PST)
(...)
Post by tom g
Anyway, now is an opportunity to thank you for all
the great guitar music you have created for us!
Post by tom g
tom g
Yes! Kindest regards, Rale
David Raleigh Arnold
2016-02-02 19:42:24 UTC
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On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 14:07:57 -0800
Post by Richard Yates
If Couperin was trying to make the
harpsichord sound like a lute, why
Post by Richard Yates
should we go through finger-tweaking
contortions and obsess over the
Post by Richard Yates
octave of a bass note or two to try
to make the guitar sound like the
Post by Richard Yates
harpsichord when we play it?
The thing is written largely in four parts, and combining parts the
way you did leads to misinterpretation. Of youtube guitar
renditions, only David Russell seems to attempt to play it
as intended. The different voices need to be at different
levels. IMO.

I think that because it is near impossible to write the parts
on one staff, that the guitar version would best be written
on two staves with two parts on each, just as the keyboard
version was, but using the familiar guitar clef. This would
probably be a good idea for renaissance lute music also.
Music on two staves for one guitar is not unknown. My first
practice with playing it was playing the Richard Pick
beginner's duets as solos. I wish you had written your
transcription that way. It's not too late. In D? or
even E?

In the Couperin, playing the bass voice staccato is a good
idea IMO. It sounds better and makes it easier at the same
time, a winning combination. IMO. Regards, Rale
Learnwell
2016-02-02 19:59:20 UTC
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Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Music on two staves for one guitar is not unknown.
No, it is not. I first encountered it here.

http://www.classicalarchives.com/work/432863.html#tvf=tracks&tv=music

Interesting that they do not list the dedicatee, and his first performance and recording of the work.

In any case that is how it is written.
David Raleigh Arnold
2016-02-06 20:46:28 UTC
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On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 11:59:20 -0800 (PST)
Post by Learnwell
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Music on two staves for one guitar is not unknown.
No, it is not. I first encountered it here.
http://www.classicalarchives.com/work/432863.html#tvf=tracks&tv=music
Interesting that they do not list the dedicatee,
and his first performance and recording of the work.
Post by Learnwell
In any case that is how it is written.
There is also something by Turina with a lot of simple