Discussion:
RH Question for the Experts
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John Nguyen
2012-07-15 16:47:51 UTC
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In this video, Alice Artzt recommended to have the knuckles aligned
with the string being played (from 2:45 to 3:45).

Do you think this position helping or impeding the speed when one
wants to play fast passages???

I have observed a number of videos of fast players, but I would like
to hear your opinions on this.
Thanks,

John
d***@gmail.com
2012-07-15 23:24:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi John,
For free stroke, this is absolutely dead on and pretty much the position of my right hand. Now, we will have to wait an hear what the experts have to say!

Doug
Murdick
2012-07-16 14:40:22 UTC
Permalink
http://youtu.be/3WYhWy5OqgM
In this video, Alice Artzt recommended to have the knuckles aligned
with the string being played (from 2:45 to 3:45).
Do you think this position helping or impeding the speed when one
wants to play fast passages???
I have observed a number of videos of fast players, but I would like
to hear your opinions on this.
Thanks,
John
I've watched this video before with some interest. She is right about the basic strokes, but I think the bent wrist will cause problems for most people. Since there is no advantage in the parallel knuckles concept, I wouldn't advise it.
David Raleigh Arnold
2012-07-16 16:29:26 UTC
Permalink
http://youtu.be/3WYhWy5OqgM
In this video, Alice Artzt recommended to have the knuckles aligned
with the string being played (from 2:45 to 3:45).
Do you think this position helping or impeding the speed when one wants
to play fast passages???
I have observed a number of videos of fast players, but I would like to
hear your opinions on this.
Thanks,
John
Since there is no advantage in the parallel knuckles
concept, I wouldn't advise it.

That is particularly well put. Regards, daveA
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d***@gmail.com
2012-07-16 17:12:56 UTC
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Yes, Kent I agree, no bent wrist. The knuckle over top of the string you are plucking is particularly good for an effective free stroke. That is the part of the video I agree with.
Murdick
2012-07-16 23:04:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@gmail.com
Yes, Kent I agree, no bent wrist. The knuckle over top of the string you are plucking is particularly good for an effective free stroke. That is the part of the video I agree with.
I'd even be careful of the "knuckle over the string being played" idea even though I've used those exact words many times with students. Certainly, it is an easy way to teach the free stroke and some play successfully this way, but it is a little bit over flexed for most people I think.
Fadosolrélamisi
2012-07-17 18:27:15 UTC
Permalink
> Yes, Kent I agree, no bent wrist. The knuckle over top of the string you are plucking is particularly good for an effective free stroke. That is the part of the video I agree with.
I'd even be careful of the "knuckle over the string being played" idea even though I've used those exact words many times with students. Certainly, it is an easy way to teach the free stroke and some play successfully this way, but it is a little bit over flexed for most people I think.
Logically (but I have to concede that, that could just be an appearance of logic, thus my cautious approach in deduction here and asking for verification of this reasoning) the best position for free stroke would be the one adopted by all the fingers when they pluck a chord. Chord plucking would then become an important element of a daily practice routine as it would provide the RH with strength and security of positioning, the position of plucking all fingers simultaneously being one that is easily felt as being correct or incorrect. Moreover, concentrating on bringing one voice out of the chord would enhance (dynamic) control and sensibility to the fingertip touch.

Alain
Murdick
2012-07-18 12:12:57 UTC
Permalink
> > Yes, Kent I agree, no bent wrist. The knuckle over top of the string you are plucking is particularly good for an effective free stroke. That is the part of the video I agree with.
>
> I'd even be careful of the "knuckle over the string being played" idea even though I've used those exact words many times with students. Certainly, it is an easy way to teach the free stroke and some play successfully this way, but it is a little bit over flexed for most people I think.
Logically (but I have to concede that, that could just be an appearance of logic, thus my cautious approach in deduction here and asking for verification of this reasoning) the best position for free stroke would be the one adopted by all the fingers when they pluck a chord. Chord plucking would then become an important element of a daily practice routine as it would provide the RH with strength and security of positioning, the position of plucking all fingers simultaneously being one that is easily felt as being correct or incorrect. Moreover, concentrating on bringing one voice out of the chord would enhance (dynamic) control and sensibility to the fingertip touch.
Alain
Of course one could play a chord with and inefficient motion.
Cactus Wren
2012-07-18 16:03:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Murdick
> > Yes, Kent I agree, no bent wrist. The knuckle over top of the string you are plucking is particularly good for an effective free stroke. That is the part of the video I agree with.
>
> I'd even be careful of the "knuckle over the string being played" idea even though I've used those exact words many times with students.   Certainly, it is an easy way to teach the free stroke and some play successfully this way, but it is a little bit over flexed for most people I think.
Logically (but I have to concede that, that could just be an appearance of logic, thus my cautious approach in deduction here and asking for verification of this reasoning) the best position for free stroke would be the one adopted by all the fingers when they pluck a chord. Chord plucking would then become an important element of a daily practice routine as it would provide the RH with strength and security of positioning, the position of plucking all fingers simultaneously being one that is easily felt as being correct or incorrect. Moreover, concentrating on bringing one voice out of the chord would enhance (dynamic) control and sensibility to the fingertip touch.
Alain
Of course one could play a chord with and inefficient motion.
It seems that by closing the hand into a fist, you can get a decent
model for chord-playing and, generally, finger motion, no?
Murdick
2012-07-18 17:26:10 UTC
Permalink
> > > > Yes, Kent I agree, no bent wrist. The knuckle over top of the string you are plucking is particularly good for an effective free stroke. That is the part of the video I agree with.
> > >
> > > I'd even be careful of the "knuckle over the string being played" idea even though I've used those exact words many times with students.   Certainly, it is an easy way to teach the free stroke and some play successfully this way, but it is a little bit over flexed for most people I think.
>
> > Logically (but I have to concede that, that could just be an appearance of logic, thus my cautious approach in deduction here and asking for verification of this reasoning) the best position for free stroke would be the one adopted by all the fingers when they pluck a chord. Chord plucking would then become an important element of a daily practice routine as it would provide the RH with strength and security of positioning, the position of plucking all fingers simultaneously being one that is easily felt as being correct or incorrect. Moreover, concentrating on bringing one voice out of the chord would enhance (dynamic) control and sensibility to the fingertip touch.
>
> > Alain
>
> Of course one could play a chord with and inefficient motion.
It seems that by closing the hand into a fist, you can get a decent
model for chord-playing and, generally, finger motion, no?
I teach it that way if the student has trouble with follow through.
Fadosolrélamisi
2012-07-18 22:53:15 UTC
Permalink
> > > > > Yes, Kent I agree, no bent wrist. The knuckle over top of the string you are plucking is particularly good for an effective free stroke. That is the part of the video I agree with.
> > > >
> > > > I'd even be careful of the "knuckle over the string being played" idea even though I've used those exact words many times with students.   Certainly, it is an easy way to teach the free stroke and some play successfully this way, but it is a little bit over flexed for most people I think.
> >
> > > Logically (but I have to concede that, that could just be an appearance of logic, thus my cautious approach in deduction here and asking for verification of this reasoning) the best position for free stroke would be the one adopted by all the fingers when they pluck a chord. Chord plucking would then become an important element of a daily practice routine as it would provide the RH with strength and security of positioning, the position of plucking all fingers simultaneously being one that is easily felt as being correct or incorrect. Moreover, concentrating on bringing one voice out of the chord would enhance (dynamic) control and sensibility to the fingertip touch.
> >
> > > Alain
> >
> > Of course one could play a chord with and inefficient motion.
>
> It seems that by closing the hand into a fist, you can get a decent
> model for chord-playing and, generally, finger motion, no?
I teach it that way if the student has trouble with follow through.
The faster you play the shorter is the follow through thus the importance of practicing the quick release and return to the string as thought by Pavel Steidl in his exercise (on the video I posted a few weeks ago). Ajusting the fingers when plucking chords is a good way to feel the hand, the finger tip touch, and the muscles in the arm. Soon to die ... the E-F-G approach on the first strg!

Alain
Murdick
2012-07-20 03:48:48 UTC
Permalink
> > > > > > Yes, Kent I agree, no bent wrist. The knuckle over top of the string you are plucking is particularly good for an effective free stroke. That is the part of the video I agree with.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd even be careful of the "knuckle over the string being played" idea even though I've used those exact words many times with students.   Certainly, it is an easy way to teach the free stroke and some play successfully this way, but it is a little bit over flexed for most people I think.
> > >
> > > > Logically (but I have to concede that, that could just be an appearance of logic, thus my cautious approach in deduction here and asking for verification of this reasoning) the best position for free stroke would be the one adopted by all the fingers when they pluck a chord. Chord plucking would then become an important element of a daily practice routine as it would provide the RH with strength and security of positioning, the position of plucking all fingers simultaneously being one that is easily felt as being correct or incorrect. Moreover, concentrating on bringing one voice out of the chord would enhance (dynamic) control and sensibility to the fingertip touch.
> > >
> > > > Alain
> > >
> > > Of course one could play a chord with and inefficient motion.
> >
> > It seems that by closing the hand into a fist, you can get a decent
> > model for chord-playing and, generally, finger motion, no?
>
> I teach it that way if the student has trouble with follow through.
The faster you play the shorter is the follow through thus the importance of practicing the quick release and return to the string as thought by Pavel Steidl in his exercise (on the video I posted a few weeks ago). Ajusting the fingers when plucking chords is a good way to feel the hand, the finger tip touch, and the muscles in the arm. Soon to die ... the E-F-G approach on the first strg!
Alain
The shorter the follow through, the less energy is put into the stroke and the less volume you will get. Speed is not the problem and neither is the speed of the release. The finger will return naturally fast enough. What you don't want to do is to make a habit of following through too much.
Fadosolrélamisi
2012-07-20 05:10:16 UTC
Permalink
> > > > > > > Yes, Kent I agree, no bent wrist. The knuckle over top of the string you are plucking is particularly good for an effective free stroke. That is the part of the video I agree with.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd even be careful of the "knuckle over the string being played" idea even though I've used those exact words many times with students.   Certainly, it is an easy way to teach the free stroke and some play successfully this way, but it is a little bit over flexed for most people I think.
> > > >
> > > > > Logically (but I have to concede that, that could just be an appearance of logic, thus my cautious approach in deduction here and asking for verification of this reasoning) the best position for free stroke would be the one adopted by all the fingers when they pluck a chord. Chord plucking would then become an important element of a daily practice routine as it would provide the RH with strength and security of positioning, the position of plucking all fingers simultaneously being one that is easily felt as being correct or incorrect. Moreover, concentrating on bringing one voice out of the chord would enhance (dynamic) control and sensibility to the fingertip touch.
> > > >
> > > > > Alain
> > > >
> > > > Of course one could play a chord with and inefficient motion.
> > >
> > > It seems that by closing the hand into a fist, you can get a decent
> > > model for chord-playing and, generally, finger motion, no?
> >
> > I teach it that way if the student has trouble with follow through.
>
> The faster you play the shorter is the follow through thus the importance of practicing the quick release and return to the string as thought by Pavel Steidl in his exercise (on the video I posted a few weeks ago). Ajusting the fingers when plucking chords is a good way to feel the hand, the finger tip touch, and the muscles in the arm. Soon to die ... the E-F-G approach on the first strg!
>
> Alain
The shorter the follow through, the less energy is put into the stroke and the less volume you will get. Speed is not the problem and neither is the speed of the release. The finger will return naturally fast enough. What you don't want to do is to make a habit of following through too much.
I agree. I think that the exercise given by Pavel Streidl has exactly this objective: minimizing the follow through by returning (and stopping) quickly to the strg.

Alain
Cactus Wren
2012-07-20 18:19:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Murdick
> > > > > > Yes, Kent I agree, no bent wrist. The knuckle over top of the string you are plucking is particularly good for an effective free stroke. That is the part of the video I agree with.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd even be careful of the "knuckle over the string being played" idea even though I'